Post by cookiemdough on May 31, 2013 18:31:15 GMT -5
I am pretty sure "blame the parents" is widely accepted, what has that changed? It has only served to provide a reason for the rest of society to not even try to find a solution.
So what, specifically, do you propose to do about the parents?
We could start by placing blame where it belongs instead of being so paternalistic.
So really, that's your entire answer? Just "blame the parents"?
How does that solve anything at all? How does that help these kids? "Hey, I know you're going to school in a place where you're in physical danger every day, no one is really looking out for you, no one at home cares about your academics, no one is pushing you to succeed, no one is helping you figure out how to succeed. But it's your parents' fault! HTH!"
SBP is right. The only way to change the cycle of poverty is to provide education to parents with young children about proper nutrition, how to help their kids with their homework, effective discipline, how to read with their kids (or how to read at all if they struggle with their own literacy) even how to talk to their young children, and how to navigate the school system and work with teachers and administrators instead of viewing them with distrust (which is very common for parents who had bad school experiences themselves) and to make it convenient enough that they can attend these education sessions without having to miss work or find childcare. If we want to change the way people raise their kids, we need to provide them with another way to do it instead of sneering down from our high horses and blaming them for raising their children the only way they know how. Which, really, is what ALL of us do, but most of us on here had parents who knew how to provide us with support because they had it from their parents, too.
I normally post on ML. I teach in Philly; much of this video is my daily reality. If the above were true -- if these services were actually offered, and my students' parents (who were mostly kids themselves when they had their own kids) were given something better than blame -- then their kids' schools would be infinitely better.
Would it be nice if more parents were involved in my kids' lives in a meaningful way? You bet. But how is it productive to "place the blame" on them without trying to alleviate some of the issues that are causing the lack of advocacy and involvement? My students' parents largely went to violent Philly schools; many of them struggle with literacy themselves, and most have expressed nothing but gratitude and appreciation for me and my school because they know their kids are safe with me. And for them, that is all they feel they can ask for, because they know it's the only option their kid has without a drastic move that they can't afford.
Urban education is about a whole lot more than just teaching the kids; it needs to include parent education, health & wellness centers, and after-school options. And "placing the blame" on the parents without providing constructive solutions to help those same parents is just fucking bullshit, if you ask me. It literally disgusts me that the only comment someone might have is to place "blame."
Those are my kids that suffer as a result of a society that is content to blame parents and to cut the budget to literally nothing, and those are my kids who stand and watch as those in power choose to just "blame the parents" without addressing the larger, systemic issues that created this kind of pervasive issue in the first place.
When you tell someone they can not do something over and over and over....they begin to believe it.
so....this combined with "blame the parents" is how we deal with it? We just simply throw up our hands and say "oh well! Parents suck! As a result kids suck, too!"? Really?
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
When you tell someone they can not do something over and over and over....they begin to believe it.
If you offer assistance in helping them do something really fucking important, like RAISING A CHILD EFFECTIVELY, and you treat them like a partner/stakeholder when you do it -- and, believe it or not, this is entirely possible -- they'd probably react a whole hell of a lot better than being blamed.
When you tell someone they can not do something over and over and over....they begin to believe it.
Besides belonging on an inspirational poster or a bumper sticker, what does this even mean in regards to this situation? And how is it in any way a solution?
Do you have ANY specific ideas about how to improve the situations of the kids in the original story besides "blame their parents"? Or does your entire contribution to this consist of "judge people and then wash your hands of it"?
The thing about "blame the parents" is, okay, fine, lets blame the parents. They're lazy and apathetic and teach their kids terrible lessons and poor values. So....now what? What do we do about this? Wash our hands and just give up on thousands or millions of kids? Unless you live on a fortified desert island, guess what- the failure of these children to become productive adults WILL affect you somehow, whether its having to pay more taxes to support them or having your house broken into or your children killed by one who became a criminal. So even if you don't give a shit about them as human beings, from a purely selfish perspective, you *need* to care about this because it will affect your life.
I normally post on ML. I teach in Philly; much of this video is my daily reality. If the above were true -- if these services were actually offered, and my students' parents (who were mostly kids themselves when they had their own kids) were given something better than blame -- then their kids' schools would be infinitely better.
Would it be nice if more parents were involved in my kids' lives in a meaningful way? You bet. But how is it productive to "place the blame" on them without trying to alleviate some of the issues that are causing the lack of advocacy and involvement? My students' parents largely went to violent Philly schools; many of them struggle with literacy themselves, and most have expressed nothing but gratitude and appreciation for me and my school because they know their kids are safe with me. And for them, that is all they feel they can ask for, because they know it's the only option their kid has without a drastic move that they can't afford.
Urban education is about a whole lot more than just teaching the kids; it needs to include parent education, health & wellness centers, and after-school options. And "placing the blame" on the parents without providing constructive solutions to help those same parents is just fucking bullshit, if you ask me. It literally disgusts me that the only comment someone might have is to place "blame."
Those are my kids that suffer as a result of a society that is content to blame parents and to cut the budget to literally nothing, and those are my kids who stand and watch as those in power choose to just "blame the parents" without addressing the larger, systemic issues that created this kind of pervasive issue in the first place.
Hi, I lurk on ML. H is currently is currently so upset about the budget. Ugh.
Hi! Does your H work in the district? The SRC is being so irresponsible. I went to a few of their meetings/watched a lot of live coverage of the school closing hearings (I wrote my thesis on it), and I noticed that they don't even bother to acquire information (building stats, costs, transfer options) before voting to close schools. And THEN they automatically pass the doomsday budget without poring over it again to try and find more potential savings.
The issue is that there is very, very little in PA state law that has anything to do with the SRC, which is a unique body separate from a "school board," so nobody -- not city council, not the mayor, etc. -- can hold them accountable for these rifuckindonkulous things they're doing.
The thing about "blame the parents" is, okay, fine, lets blame the parents. They're lazy and apathetic and teach their kids terrible lessons and poor values. So....now what? What do we do about this? Wash our hands and just give up on thousands or millions of kids? Unless you live on a fortified desert island, guess what- the failure of these children to become productive adults WILL affect you somehow, whether its having to pay more taxes to support them or having your house broken into or your children killed by one who became a criminal. So even if you don't give a shit about them as human beings, from a purely selfish perspective, you *need* to care about this because it will affect your life.
This is what I wish Governor Corbett and the SRC would realize. Invest in kids now - pay for extracurricular activities, after-school opportunities, paper (for Christ's sake), computers, healthy meals, etc. - and you realize significant savings down the line when there are far fewer of them on welfare, in prison, etc.
Yes, he works for a public, neighborhood school. He nodded his head at everything you said. He was basically crying today over stuff that happened at school. Ugh. I'm off to meet friends now but I will be back. We should discuss.
I really empathize with your husband, even though I work at a charter. I'd love to discuss sometime.
The thing about "blame the parents" is, okay, fine, lets blame the parents. They're lazy and apathetic and teach their kids terrible lessons and poor values. So....now what? What do we do about this? Wash our hands and just give up on thousands or millions of kids? Unless you live on a fortified desert island, guess what- the failure of these children to become productive adults WILL affect you somehow, whether its having to pay more taxes to support them or having your house broken into or your children killed by one who became a criminal. So even if you don't give a shit about them as human beings, from a purely selfish perspective, you *need* to care about this because it will affect your life.
This is what I wish Governor Corbett and the SRC would realize. Invest in kids now - pay for extracurricular activities, after-school opportunities, paper (for Christ's sake), computers, healthy meals, etc. - and you realize significant savings down the line when there are far fewer of them on welfare, in prison, etc.
This requires a long-term view, which no politician has because s/he must be re-elected in the short term. No one wants to spend money now for a benefit that won't be seen for years. It's the same mentality that drives politicians to make bad investment decisions in all areas of politics: they reap a short-term benefit at the expense of the future, which is of no consequence to them because they won't be running for office by then.
This requires a long-term view, which no politician has because s/he must be re-elected in the short term. No one wants to spend money now for a benefit that won't be seen for years. It's the same mentality that drives politicians to make bad investment decisions in all areas of politics: they reap a short-term benefit at the expense of the future, which is of no consequence to them because they won't be running for office by then.
Sort of. I mean, there are no term limits on Mayors in a lot of cities (like Chicago for example) and they don't do these things here either... I mean, I have no doubt that for termed politicians, this mind set comes in, but even if they had their entire political careers to accomplish these things, they'd still find reasons it can't be done.
I don't doubt that they would, but I'm referring to the constant need to focus on the next election. Even those without term limits are constantly jockeying to put themselves in the best position to sell themselves within the next couple of years, rather than in 15-20 years.
It looks like you can donate to some of the students featured in the article...maybe a grassroots type movement can help these kids succeed. Perhaps there is a way to collectively adopt classrooms or something, a fund to pay college fees...
It seems like we are just cutting every opportunity for kids to gain life skills in the education system in favor of testing and budget cuts. Those soft skills like interpersonal communication, nonviolent conflict resolution, critical thinking, values clarification, goal-setting, working with people different from yourself are so critical for long term success and are a key factor in successful parenting as well. Not to mention skills like financial literacy and basic personal and household care.
Yes, some of these skills are learned in the home--but ask yourself where you learned leadership qualities and gained confidence in your ability to set and achieve goals--a lot of that is in the school environment through things like sports, extracurricular activities and the arts. Some of the most valuable skills I gained in my youth came from being on the debate team and having a leadership position in a school club. I have an accountant for a father but I learned about compound interest, retirement savings, debt and savings in the required personal finance class I took in HS. It was never once discussed or taught in my home. Yes I had the tremendous advantage of having a parent with a college education and a white collar job--but even with that significant advantage I needed those school-based opportunities to succeed as an independent adult.
When we cut and cut and cut those opportunities and just keep kids in a classroom memorizing stuff for a test we might marginally improve test scores, but we aren't serving those kids in the long term and we are harming our society in the process. Well-off families may be able to outsource these functions through paid sports leagues and music lessons and who knows what else, but for kids whose parents can't (or won't!) pay for those activities we are cutting off our own damn noses by not giving them opportunities to lead and grow in a safe environment.
It's sad when countries like Jordan and Indonesia are investing in life skills curriculum and seeing significant rewards, and we can't even make sure that kids in our schools have text books much less leadership opportunities.
This is so right. And I feel like it's all getting worse and worse and parents are scrambling to make the most of it (when they can) and none of us are holding people accountable. Parents are understandably worried about the next school year and what's happening right now, teachers and other school staff are scrambling to cope with all the changes and cutbacks. We need to all somehow come together as a society and just put our foot down and get people to understand what this is doing. I don't know how to do that. It's all so disjointed district by district, city by city, state by state. Everyone just has enough time to worry about their own kids or their own job or their own district.
When I am feeling particularly cynical, I think that it is deliberate. Stupid people are easier to control. Poor people are easier to control. Scared people are easier to control. And it seems to me a large amount of politicians / rich people are happy to see it go that way, which is why there is no effort to fund or help this situation. Even better, when they fail at everything, they can join the army and die.
When I am feeling particularly cynical, I think that it is deliberate. Stupid people are easier to control. Poor people are easier to control. Scared people are easier to control. And it seems to me a large amount of politicians / rich people are happy to see it go that way, which is why there is no effort to fund or help this situation. Even better, when they fail at everything, they can join the army and die.
I really do think it is deliberate. For a society like ours to work, there must be a lower working class of those who can only get menial jobs, who can only live paycheck to paycheck, who must inhabit the parts of the city that are undesirable. In a true meritocracy, ability and hard work would determine the underclass - and that might mean that the wealthy politician's son who is actually kind of a shithead should be in the working class. But we're not a meritocracy, and it's far less scary and risky to keep the poor where they are.
Many educational researchers argue that schools and their setups have a lot to do with this. It's called social reproduction theory, and the argument is that schools like Mansion, with their security cameras, metal detectors, bells and standardized test prep, are explicitly preparing their students to take on jobs that do not stress critical thinking or creativity, and that schools in the Philly suburbs, with relaxed dress codes, no bell system and a LOT of creativity in the classroom are training their kids to be executives.