Obama Asserts Exec. Privilege re: F&F document

[ttt]

Can someone clarify - I thought the agent was NOT killed by one of the guns sold by the ATF but rather one of the guns sold by the ATF was found at the scene along with an entire cache of weapons?

[2vermont]

Jun 20, 2012 19:30:39 GMT -5 @bqbride said:

2V--you are 100% correct, and I am not in any way pulling the "it's Bush's fault" card. I fundamentally object to the program as a whole on moral grounds alone. I was just stating that I don't see how anyone can say that this program was a ploy by the current administration to rally support for gun control legislation, especially since it pre-dates the Obama administration by at least 2 years. Or are you suggesting that the "screw-up" (murder of a US agent by the Mexican cartel using guns that we provided them) itself was such a ploy? Perhaps I misunderstood the conspiracy theory...

Maybe neither one of us understands the conspiracy theory, but it would make sense if the bolded was what it was insinuating. If so, that is what I was suggesting. Then again, my understanding may be wrong as well.

[bqbride]

ttt--I believe that this is one of the things they are trying to cover up. I have read conflicting accounts. The murder weapon itself was tagged with evidence tag #5, IIRC, but mysteriously, the actual gun associated with evidence tag #5 was removed from the scene and "missing." That leads me to believe that the murder weapon probably was a F&F gun, and that field agents either took it upon themselves or received orders to cover it up and get rid of that gun.

I wish I had sources for this, but I've been following it fairly closely since Agent Terry was murdered and I just can't remember where everything came from. The above was from an early, 9 page, detailed account of the crime scene and associated evidence that was released very early on.

[ESF]

Eric Holder is my least favorite member of the Obama Administration.

I need him out.

[y4m]

Jun 20, 2012 16:16:37 GMT -5 @bqbride said:

The fact that there is evidence of similar programs dating back to 2006 should put that conspiracy theory to rest, shouldn't it?

I disagree. Yes, the Bush administration had a much smaller program like Fast and Furious called Operation Wide Receiver, where they intentionally sold guns into Mexico to track where they went in the hope of busting cartels.

But it was different in significant ways:

1. It was WAY smaller than Fast and Furious
2. They had the knowledge and permission of the Mexican government
3. The guns had tracking devices, so you could actually..you know...track them and find the people who ended up with the guns.

That third point is critical. I can see how releasing guns with tracking devices into Mexico to see where they end up could potentially serve a law enforcement goal.

But what possible goal could releasing guns without tracking devices into Mexico, a la Fast and Furious, serve?

[wornoutfret]

I think the second point is critical too. You've gotta let the country you're pumping guns into know about it.