Post by wrathofkuus on Oct 1, 2013 21:53:20 GMT -5
Then... why is there a rule against spending the night with her boyfriend? Does he live in a crack den? I will be completely on your side if he lives in a crack den.
He shouldn't even be putting celibacy rules in place for a 19 year old. My parents were like this, and trying to figure out exactly who this body and sexuality belonged to was something I needed therapy to work out.
Where did 'celibacy rules' come from? About a month into dating the boyfriend DH encouraged her to get an IUD (which she did).
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I don't know I am with kuus on this. She was lying either because she thought dad would have an issue with it or because he actually would have an issue with her at boyfriends. At 19 her spending the night out with her bf is pretty normal. If his mom doesn't have an issue with her there I don't think that your DH should try and control if. It turns into weird celibacy rules especially if she is still presumably allowed to sleep at female friends houses. Why not explain to her that he is more comfortable knowing where she is please don't lie.
I get the up in arms over the curfew and somewhat about the spending the night at boyfriend's. It's hard to go from parenting full time, then having child go to school for 5 months, then when she comes back you're not really supposed to 'parent' that way anymore. It's a hard transition and there is a big learning curve. We definitely keep making mistake after mistake in parenting both of our girls year after year and just try to figure out how to do it better going forward. I was hoping some folks were going through some of these challenges now could give me some 'been there, done that' advice, but I appreciate everyone chiming in, it is good to have different perspectives. What is parenting if not continually challenging our perspective in things we thought we knew?
Post by wrathofkuus on Oct 1, 2013 22:08:59 GMT -5
Yeah. It probably is weird to not be actively parenting any more. But whatever lessons there are to teach, if they haven't sunk in by now, there is no active parenting that is going to do it.
FWIW, my parents still actively try to raise me, and I'm 34, married, and live in a house I own.
I get the up in arms over the curfew and somewhat about the spending the night at boyfriend's. It's hard to go from parenting full time, then having child go to school for 5 months, then when she comes back you're not really supposed to 'parent' that way anymore. It's a hard transition and there is a big learning curve. We definitely keep making mistake after mistake in parenting both of our girls year after year and just try to figure out how to do it better going forward. I was hoping some folks were going through some of these challenges now could give me some 'been there, done that' advice, but I appreciate everyone chiming in, it is good to have different perspectives. What is parenting if not continually challenging our perspective in things we thought we knew?
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I don't think you are doing a bad job you clearly care and it is definitely a weird transition for everybody. I also think it depends on how much you want her out so to speak and how much you want to let her transition to being an adult at home. A lot of people's parents are very "tough you don't like my rules move out" and their kids are fine. Then there are my parents who liked me being home and made it easy for me. I am still a productive adult most of the time.
Also I know it is harder when their are younger kids at home. I can remember twice my parents having to talk to me about my behavior (I was over 21). Once I was fighting with a cabbie who was trying to rip me off. My dad came out an intervened he was up at 2am because my 16yo sister missed curfew by an hour and he was waiting for her. The other time I was passed out half in the tiny hall bath, half in the hallway and my mom stepped on me because guess who missed curfew again. My mom was basically like "look I can't have you acting like a total asshole when I am trying to punish your sister for acting like an asshole."
I didn't read the whole thread yet, but I was periodically at home as an adult (whenever then boyfriend and now husband was deployed) and my adult brother currently lives with my mom and dad.
I think for the most part, your house, your rules, but she is an adult. I would try to apply whatever rules you would apply to any other adult living under your roof. Coming home before a certain time for the reasons you listed is perfectly appropriate for any adult... that's just being respectful and courteous. But it's a little silly at this point to say she can't stay overnight with her boyfriend if she chooses to. For myself and my brother, the general idea was "if you are coming home, you need to be home by x time. If you can not/do not want to come home by x time, have somewhere else to stay". We've never had any contention as a family as long as everyone treated each other with the same respect and courtesy they would treat any adult with.
My kid is 18. No curfew, but she keeps me posted on where she is and what time she plans to be home.
Respect and trust. It works both ways.
This. I knew my parents felt better if I called or sent then a quick text saying "hey. It's 12 am. Still at friends. Will stay here. Love you" and call them when I woke up the next day.
I lived at home from sophomore year until I met H. My parents were fine with him coming over and staying of he wanted (never did--had his own house). I helped with chores and cooking, would go grocery shopping with my mom, etc. I respected her rules (and they weren't really rules- just common courtesies).
You're doing a great job and it can be tough transitioning back into being a parent of an adult child. Talk this over with her and your H so you can see how she feels about everything and to get her input on stuff.
If she wants to live there rent free she needs to follow your rules. When I lived at home after school (free rent so I could save some money) I had to follow rules and I think that is totally fair. My moms asked that I was home by midnight on weekdays (we had a barky dog too) but I didn't have a weekend curfew. I had chores I did around the house and contributed towards groceries.
This. I lived on campus my first semester, and moved home the 2nd semester. I had a 10pm curfew during the week, and had to be home by midnight on the weekends. I paid for my own gas and tuition, worked a part time job, and had chores around the house. I tried to pay my mom and step-dad rent and for my car insurance, but they wouldn't take my money. I would buy the groceries as my way of contributing financially. Ultimately it was their house and their rules, and if I were to move home now at the age of 39, the same rules would still apply.
When I got tired of the rules, I moved out and got my own place.
My kids are 21, 19, 17, and 4. 21 lives at college, 19 lives at home and goes to CC, 17 is a senior in high school.
Mostly, we treat 21 & 19 as adults who share our home (when 21 is home). No smoking (anything) in the house, because I do not smoke (cigarettes) in the house. 19 does his own laundry, for the most part, errands that I ask him to do, etc.
Summers 19 works full time, and I expect him to pay for his cell phone, gas, car ins., and registration during that time. We pick up more of that during the school year, except gas.
The adults pretty much come & go as they please. If they're drinking or whatever, they are absolutely not to drive and they spend the night where they are. We do not specify as to the gender of friends' homes that they are sleeping over. 19 doesn't generally bring women home because he thinks it's not really cool to bring someone home to his parents' house, lol. 21 did have her BF stay here during a Christmas vacation once, and I really didn't have an issue with it.
It takes some mentally talking things through sometimes and H and I don't always agree about some things. It's always a work in progress.
Parenting an adult child is hard. Being a step-parent is hard. Together? Yikes.
I disagree with the others. It is active parenting and in a lot of ways more challenging because choices at this stage of the game can change your life forever. But that parenting has to be done in a manner that conveys respect for their nascent role as "adult". It also has to be done in a manner that requires their respect and acknowledgement of the gift that is the safety of a roof over their heads. It's almost like you have to parent them behind their backs.
I "parent" two adults in my home currently. I parent them very differently given their ages and temperaments.
Kiddo #1 is the niece I helped raise after her mom died. She's early 30's with a divorce, a Masters, a great job and a boatload of student debt. We have more of a "room mate" agreement relationship. I treat her like an adult because she has earned that status- she's only with us to pay down her debt. She comes and goes at will, but will give me a heads up about days she's staying in town with friends or will be out late. She limits her amorous activities to other venues though if she were to have an ongoing relationship with someone we knew, he would be welcome so long as we knew him and arrangements were made. I don't want to wander into some strange dude in the middle of the night in my own home. She takes care of most of her own food and cooking, we split laundry. She pays her own bills and a small portion of the utilities here- electric, gas, water- the things that are more expensive w/ an extra person in the house. DH and I act as a sounding board for her making decisions around financials and such- but we don't tell her what to do.
With DS, 20, things are a bit different. While he's legally and adult, he is no where near independent of us. He also has Aspergers so he is constitutionally and emotionally more like a teenager than twenty. We have always been clear that college or some post-high school training was not optional. We pay pretty much everything for him because he's not in a place where he can effectively balance school and work- we hope to be there next semester. He doesn't contribute much to running the house- he might mow the lawn and he does most of the heavy lifting. He doesn't go out much, but when he does he is held to the same "room-mate" courtesies. DS doesn't require the sleep most folks do, and he often roams the house at night. We ask him to be courteous and quiet, but I wear earplugs most nights anyway.
Over protection isn't good parenting that results in independent sensible adults. I appreciate that you are angry that she lied, but I suspect that was a function of her realizing your DH isn't emotionally in a place where he can have an open dialog about relationships. She's at an age where boyfriends and the sex that come with are part of the lessons she needs to be learning.
I think it would be useful to have a conversation about where she is headed vocationally. College isn't for everyone, but it's not a plan for success to be 19 and working a minimum wage retail or office job that has no prospects for a career. She needs to be on a trajectory to be self-supporting and understand the money she'll need to get there eventually. She's at an age where understanding and experiencing what it costs to live is critical to making her autonomous and helping her make sound choices about careers and money management.
Since she's working full time, reasonable expenses would include her healthcare, auto insurance and maintenance, some savings, and a small contribution to the running of the household so she can get an appreciation that shelter comes at a cost.
I'm not sure I can agree with an 11 pm curfew because her brother is younger or because other family members keep a different schedule. Can you work on training the dogs not to bark? My parents had a St. Bernard when I was living home during college- I came in all manner of hours and he never woke others up.
I'm not sure I can agree with an 11 pm curfew because her brother is younger or because other family members keep a different schedule. Can you work on training the dogs not to bark? My parents had a St. Bernard when I was living home during college- I came in all manner of hours and he never woke others up.
I understand that to some it seems like a silly reason to set a certain curfew, but I am not sure my husband is going to attempt to teach a 3 y/0 pit mix and a 7y/o lab to not bark when someone comes in the house in the middle of the night (which could take months) just so his daughter can hang out with her boyfriend until 3 am.
I also think as parents it is hard to fully sleep when you know your 19 y/0 child is out and you are still expecting them home. You kind of still sleep with one eye/ear open until you hear the key in the door and know they are home safely.
SD has been floundering a bit since the car accident and DH is just overly protective right now. This is also her first ever boyfriend (she never dated or anything prior to this guy) and b/c they were together when the car accident occurred (not physically together, dating I mean) she has become very dependent on him for emotional support. I understand this to a point, but also want her to figure out a good balance in her relationships and not be so all consumed by a 19 y/0 boy.
While I can understand the your house your rules argument, and don't disagree, I do think it will be impossible to keep a 19yo girl from being all consumed by her 19yo first boyfriend.
Post by onomatopoeia on Oct 2, 2013 9:12:44 GMT -5
Agree that the week curfew is a good idea b/c of the barking dogs, and the weekend curfew/no staying at boyfriend's house is a bit harsh for a 19 year old. I also agree that unless she's saving for future tuition, it's time for her to start contributing more. Get the phone in her name and have her pay the whole thing, have her pay rent as well as her whole car insurance. If she wants to be treated like an adult, that's what adults do. Is she pretty good about doing her part around the house, chores and stuff like that? Is she generally responsible? That might make a difference in how I treated her.
While I can understand the your house your rules argument, and don't disagree, I do think it will be impossible to keep a 19yo girl from being all consumed by her 19yo first boyfriend.
I know, I know, I need to put myself back in my googly eyed "so in love with him" 19 y/o shoes.
I also think as parents it is hard to fully sleep when you know your 19 y/0 child is out and you are still expecting them home. You kind of still sleep with one eye/ear open until you hear the key in the door and know they are home safely.
SD has been floundering a bit since the car accident and DH is just overly protective right now. This is also her first ever boyfriend (she never dated or anything prior to this guy) and b/c they were together when the car accident occurred (not physically together, dating I mean) she has become very dependent on him for emotional support. I understand this to a point, but also want her to figure out a good balance in her relationships and not be so all consumed by a 19 y/0 boy.
Has she been in counseling to deal with the (emotional) after-effects of such a traumatic accident?
Then again.. I think it would be hard to find a 19 y/o girl that's not all consumed with her first serious boyfriend, lol!
Also, here's a suggestion that a couple of my friend's parents did that I thought was pretty awesome. The ones living at home and paying rent, every time they paid it, the parents would put it in a savings account (my friends didn't know). When they moved out/graduated college, the parents handed it back over as a gift. This was so they had an emergency savings fund already started, or for first and last month's rent on their first apartment, or whatever. I'm not sure if that's something that you're financially able to do, but if so, it's a pretty cool idea.
She started counseling about a month ago, my husband went with her a week or so ago at her request and he will go again with her in another week or so. Hopefully that will help with each of them understanding where the other is coming from.
At 19, I didn't have a curfew. Just basically had to let my parents know if and when I was coming home do they know I wasn't dead in a ditch somewhere. I was aloud to sleep out. Basically no wrecking the house and disrespect
I'm not sure I can agree with an 11 pm curfew because her brother is younger or because other family members keep a different schedule. Can you work on training the dogs not to bark? My parents had a St. Bernard when I was living home during college- I came in all manner of hours and he never woke others up.
I understand that to some it seems like a silly reason to set a certain curfew, but I am not sure my husband is going to attempt to teach a 3 y/0 pit mix and a 7y/o lab to not bark when someone comes in the house in the middle of the night (which could take months) just so his daughter can hang out with her boyfriend until 3 am.
I'd much prefer my dog DID bark if someone were trying to get in at 3am.
I've had my adult kids live with me for a certain amount of time. They had to adhere to MY rules or they could find a different place to live. **shrug**
I guess it's different with daughters, but with my sons I knew they were fairly capable of taking care of themselves and could make somewhat good decisions.
Eventually you have to let them fly off on their own. But stick to your own rules in your own house.
ETA: I moved out of my mom's house when I was 20 and moved all the way up to Alaska. I'm a big fan of letting kids go do what they need to do a year or two out of high school.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
I am aghast at everything in flexie's second paragraph. What in the flying fuck?!
you're misunderstanding the intent of my second paragraph. I was trying, in a nice way, to recognize that Dad is concerned about his daughter's capabilities of taking care of herself since she had been in a bad accident.
I'm not implying that all girls are incapable of taking care of themselves which is why I added the ETA to explain my own life experience.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
I've only read the first page of replies, but I don't understand this whole "no curfew for the adult child!" posts. Um, my house, my rules, and I'm imposing them strictly upon you in part because I don't want you to get too comfortable here. You're an ADULT. If you don't want to live by another adult's rules, then find your own place. Like an adult.
Post by pedanticwench on Oct 2, 2013 11:21:05 GMT -5
My parents treated me this way and it eventually led me to move out, which probably would have happened anyway, eventually. This just made it happen sooner and with more tears and yelling.
My mom has since told me that she regrets treating me that way, because she didn't want me to leave the house so soon.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I've only read the first page of replies, but I don't understand this whole "no curfew for the adult child!" posts. Um, my house, my rules, and I'm imposing them strictly upon you in part because I don't want you to get too comfortable here. You're an ADULT. If you don't want to live by another adult's rules, then find your own place. Like an adult.
Would you let a roommate tell you that you have a curfew?
I don't know. I think it's reasonable to have curfews in place if your kid has had issues in the past with waking up the household because she came in at 2 in the morning, which has happened in this case.
But, trying to say that she can't spend the night at a boyfriend's house? That's stupid.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I've only read the first page of replies, but I don't understand this whole "no curfew for the adult child!" posts. Um, my house, my rules, and I'm imposing them strictly upon you in part because I don't want you to get too comfortable here. You're an ADULT. If you don't want to live by another adult's rules, then find your own place. Like an adult.
Would you let a roommate tell you that you have a curfew?
I don't know. I think it's reasonable to have curfews in place if your kid has had issues in the past with waking up the household because she came in at 2 in the morning, which has happened in this case.
But, trying to say that she can't spend the night at a boyfriend's house? That's stupid.
I see the parents' point here about telling her "no" she can't stay with the boyfriend because she has lied about where she was in the past. Paired with the fact that she was in a car crash in which her friend was killed, as a parent, I can't see myself (reasonable or not) being a-ok with finding out that I really had no idea where my child was all of those nights she had supposedly checked in. In the grander picture, I really can't fault them for this.
Would you let a roommate tell you that you have a curfew?
I don't know. I think it's reasonable to have curfews in place if your kid has had issues in the past with waking up the household because she came in at 2 in the morning, which has happened in this case.
But, trying to say that she can't spend the night at a boyfriend's house? That's stupid.
She's not a roommate, they are her parents. It's not the same thing.
All the more reason she needs to find a place of her own, I guess.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
If she's working full time and contributing like an adult, she should be treated like one. If she wants to sleep at the house, she needs to be there by 11. If not, she needs to let you know that she'll be out for the night. I don't think that it should matter if it's at her boyfriend's or a female friend's house.
Also, why does she have a curfew at 1 on the weekends if your H doesn't need to get up early for work those days?
I think I would be even more pissed off if someone was riling up my dogs and waking me up at 4am when I *didn't* have to be up for work. Screw that.
I'd say be home by 11 or sleep somewhere else, every day.
And OP, as for the bf thing, if you know she's having sex and got her an IUD, it seems silly to keep her from spending the night there. Especially when he lives with his parents, the only thing that's happening is that they're having sex and then she physically sleeps somewhere else. Who cares? I get being mad that she lied, but this isn't the way to handle it. I'd tell her that honesty and trust were vital to the current arrangement, and if she wanted to keep living under my roof, the lies end immediately. BUT you'd have to be willing to back that up and kick her out if she continued to lie, which would certainly fly in the face of the over-protective urge...
My parents treated me this way and it eventually led me to move out, which probably would have happened anyway, eventually. This just made it happen sooner and with more tears and yelling.
My mom has since told me that she regrets treating me that way, because she didn't want me to leave the house so soon.
Just something to think about.
I'm assuming you were an adult at this point? Maybe I'm weird, but I can't imagine WANTING my adult child to live at home. My work here is done! Go thrive and be your own person, and come over for dinner on Sundays and tell me how great life is. lol
The fact that I don't actually HAVE a child probably colors that thought process.