Cat philosophies around the world

[crimsonandclover]

Where I grew up in the US (rural), when we adopted cats from the humane society, we had to sign forms saying they would be indoor-only cats. The reasoning was that outdoor cats generally live only about half as long as indoor-only cats since they are exposed to diseases, predators, cars, etc. So I grew up with the mentality that letting cats outside was irresponsible.

Here in Germany, if you want to adopt cats from the humane society around my area, you have to promise that you will let them outside, as it's considered cruel to keep cats indoors (or "inhumane treatment for the species" in Germanese). That is one of the things that has kept me from getting cats in our current apartment - we live very close to a busy street and I have experience with cats getting run over (even our supposedly indoor-only cats escaped sometimes and 2 got killed by cars).

Our new house is in a very quiet neighborhood, but I still have mixed feelings because of the diseases they can pick up from other animals and the fact that I hate it when other cats poop in the yard where my little kids play. We can't let the girls play in our current, very small yard because the neighborhood cats use it as a litter box. I don't want my cat to become one of the nuisances.

So what are the thoughts were you live? How do you feel about cats being inside vs. outside? (I'm not asking this on the pet board because I have never been over there but assume most of them are in the US and are therefore of the "indoor-only" mentality. I'm curious about views around the world.)

[allibally]

I'm for inside cats. I don't like the safety/security of outdoor cats... I would seriously lie if I really wanted a cat in Germany and didn't want it outside.

However, our cat goes on a leash. Haha. He has supervised outside time occasionally for about 15 minutes. Probably more often if we lived in a non urban area or had a house. Too many dogs and so I keep having to bring him inside till they pass. I think supervised outside time is nice.

Here is Mauer out yesterday.

[crimsonandclover]

That is adorable! We tried taking a couple of our cats out on leashes - they would just lie down and not move. We lived out in the country and occasionally would let them out supervised on a nice summer day. They usually stuck really close to the house and just rolled around in the dirt and ate grass. And then once they discovered a wild catnip patch around the back of the house. That was a funny afternoon.

[allibally]

It helped that I got him as a kitten. And because he is high maintenance with all that fur I'm able to do just about anything with him. He needs frequent baths, lots of brushing and cleaning of tear stains.

[Waffles]

Culturally we definitely align with Germany wrt to letting cats out. It's sort of frowned upon to have a cat if you don't have outdoor space.

Our cat lived with both as we moved from no garden to garden and again. We were not worried at the first place we let her out as all the gardens were walled and the closest way out to the street was really far down the block.

We did get really paranoid where we live now as the neighbours often leave their garage door open and that's a direct exit to the street, which also faces the train, so we'd only let her out with us so she couldn't escape. I'll say she didn't like it at all and I did feel guilty as she would stare out the window and cry to be let out. I guess it wouldn't have been such an issue had she not gotten a taste for it before? I don't know. I'm sure she was miserable if we didn't let her out.

This also means that all the block's cats use our garden as sort of a neutral zone as we're pretty much the only ones without a cat now.

We have agreed that should we get another cat, we would let them out freely and try not to worry ourselves sick.

Please don't shop me to the pets board!

[klingklang77]

I'm with you and thinking cats shouldn't be outside. I haven't adopted in Germany; I just got our kitten from a breeder. We weren't asked to promise to let him out. If so, I would have just lied.

The two cats we have, we adopted from a shelter and a foster in Australia. We weren't told to keep them in or out, but they said if we wanted to let them out to wait a few weeks. They were more concerned because we knew we weren't going to stay in Australia, and they wanted to know what we're going to do with the cats when we left.

Growing up, I had one outdoor cat. She would always stick in our yard or maybe the neighbors. One day she got chased by a husky. She ran so fast that she damaged her back legsand there were lumps there until she died. After that experience, she would just sit on our porch. Then the birds started attacking her. . She was such a sweet cat. The birds and her getting older made her not want to go out anymore. That being said, she lived until 18.

[crimsonandclover]

I have to say that, with a single exception, all of our cats have wanted to go outside (we had a total of 8 at different times growing up - usually 3 at a time), so I do understand the German point of view. I guess maybe for me it reflects a bit of the different mentalities in German - Americans as security/prevention-based (if we don't let them outside then bad things can't happen to them) vs. the German approach (cats want to be outside, and if bad things happen outside, then c'est la vie.).
As another point, American houses tend to be bigger than German ones. My parents' cats have 400 m2 and a screened-in porch to roam around in, so they were hardly in cramped quarters.

I would also have a moral problem lying to the humane society here, so I would probably try to avoid making the promise in the first place (I don't think they make you sign something like in the States). I know they ask if the cats have access to outdoors, and I can certainly answer that with a yes. Doesn't mean we have to let them actually USE those doors. Or maybe we will let them out and hope for the best.

[Deleted]

For me as well it is basically inconceivable to not let a cat outside if the conditions allow for it (meaning, you don't live on the 30th floor with no balcony). It strikes me as cruel to not let a living being enjoy a bit of nature. Growing up our cats would go out on the terrace (a sort of yard) and then climb the fences and roam around as they pleased. My mom moved to the countryside, in a half countryside half small village situation, for a few years and there, of course, there was no way the kitties could be kept indoors. Happiest kitties ever. They could climb up tress, hunt, play and just be felines basically.

[dulcemariamar]

Oct 21, 2013 3:04:09 GMT -5 allibally said:

I'm for inside cats. I don't like the safety/security of outdoor cats... I would seriously lie if I really wanted a cat in Germany and didn't want it outside.

However, our cat goes on a leash. Haha. He has supervised outside time occasionally for about 15 minutes. Probably more often if we lived in a non urban area or had a house. Too many dogs and so I keep having to bring him inside till they pass. I think supervised outside time is nice.

Here is Mauer out yesterday.

OMG you kill me with the pics of your cat. I want one so bad. 

[popcorn]

I grew up with an indoor/outdoor cat and had no idea that was considered irresponsible by anyone until I started going on the nest boards! She was scrappy and lived to the ripe old age of 18. We adopted her in North Carolina but I don't know what the papers said. It was nice not having a litter box though.

If we.ever got a cat it would have to be in a house and we'd let it go outside. That's what DH and I both grew up with.

[Deleted]

Here, people seem to think keeping a cat indoors is "cruel." I can guarantee you that our indoor kitty, who is fed twice a day, played with often, has dozens of her own toys, and lots of opportunities for snuggles, is not treated "cruelly." However, I wonder when I see cats in our garden cowering under bushes when it's freezing cold and pouring down rain, while our kitty is safe, warm, and well-fed.

Personally, I can't imagine letting our little kitty outside where she is likely to get beat up by other neighborhood kitties and could pick up any number of diseases. I'm all for indoor cats.

[Wanderista]

I've traditionally always leaned towards keeping cats inside. Among some of my farming family, they have outdoor cats and it seemed like most of them that I have known didn't live very long. I grew up having an indoor cat and felt strongly about it. When I lived abroad though, it is true that in a lot of Europe, I would see cats living predominantly outside. It always surprised me to walk around London residential streets and to see cats walking along the gardens. 

These days, I am of the opinion that it depends on the individual cat. I think that cats are a lot like people, they each have their own personalities and "callings" in life. For some, it would indeed be cruel to keep them inside. There are some who thrive outdoors. There are others who are very much suited to the indoor life. Basically, I'd make the decision based on what the cat prefers. I'd also want to ensure that they are safe, as much as possible.

I think the idea of a screened in patio or raised deck or similar is a great idea. I have seen similar arrangements among people that I know and the cats are very happy with it. 

I just think it's one of those cases where one size doesn't fit all and that's ok. You can set up an arrangement that you feel comfortable with. As I mentioned, I've known some cats who really have no interest in the outdoors other than maybe viewing it from a cozy pillow perched by a window. There are other cats who become very restless and destructive indoors because they want to live "the wild life".

[Deleted]

Now that I'm not on my iPad, I want to add that when we adopted our kitten last year, they would only place previously outdoor cats with owners who would allow them to be outside (or who said they would...don't think they really enforced this). I guess they felt it was "cruel" to take a former outdoor cat and rehome him in a place where he would be denied that. But kittens could be homed anywhere, which is why we got a kitten.

Also, I've been thinking about this more, and if I had an enclosed garden, and could be sure that Roxy couldn't get out, and no other cat or dog could get in, and Roxy had a kitty door so she could come in and out as she pleased, then I would totally let her go out. I'm not opposed to cats being allowed outdoors. I just don't want her to get hurt by other animals or people. And the next house we get is totally going to have a "catio" (cat patio) where she can chill and watch birdies (which she loves doing).

[crimsonandclover]

Oct 21, 2013 12:56:24 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Now that I'm not on my iPad, I want to add that when we adopted our kitten last year, they would only place previously outdoor cats with owners who would allow them to be outside (or who said they would...don't think they really enforced this). I guess they felt it was "cruel" to take a former outdoor cat and rehome him in a place where he would be denied that. But kittens could be homed anywhere, which is why we got a kitten.

Also, I've been thinking about this more, and if I had an enclosed garden, and could be sure that Roxy couldn't get out, and no other cat or dog could get in, and Roxy had a kitty door so she could come in and out as she pleased, then I would totally let her go out. I'm not opposed to cats being allowed outdoors. I just don't want her to get hurt by other animals or people. And the next house we get is totally going to have a "catio" (cat patio) where she can chill and watch birdies (which she loves doing).

I'm the same on this. In our house I suppose it would be possible to somehow put something on the upper balcony so the cat(s) wouldn't be able to jump off but would be able to enjoy the fresh air. I think they more like to roam, though, so it wouldn't be the same thing.

[allibally]

Oct 21, 2013 6:42:20 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

Oct 21, 2013 3:04:09 GMT -5 allibally said:

I'm for inside cats. I don't like the safety/security of outdoor cats... I would seriously lie if I really wanted a cat in Germany and didn't want it outside.

However, our cat goes on a leash. Haha. He has supervised outside time occasionally for about 15 minutes. Probably more often if we lived in a non urban area or had a house. Too many dogs and so I keep having to bring him inside till they pass. I think supervised outside time is nice.

Here is Mauer out yesterday.

OMG you kill me with the pics of your cat. I want one so bad. 

Thanks.

Here he is on leash. This is one where he rolls around to leave his scent.

[crimsonandclover]

Oct 21, 2013 8:52:29 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Here, people seem to think keeping a cat indoors is "cruel." I can guarantee you that our indoor kitty, who is fed twice a day, played with often, has dozens of her own toys, and lots of opportunities for snuggles, is not treated "cruelly." However, I wonder when I see cats in our garden cowering under bushes when it's freezing cold and pouring down rain, while our kitty is safe, warm, and well-fed.

Personally, I can't imagine letting our little kitty outside where she is likely to get beat up by other neighborhood kitties and could pick up any number of diseases. I'm all for indoor cats.

Yeah, what brought about this thread is that I was talking to our landlady about how the people 2 floors up from us have 2 cats and in the past few years, each of the cats has taken a tumble from their balcony down into our yard (both times the cats were dazed but ok). She said she thought it bordered on animal abuse to keep cats indoors in an apartment. So that got me thinking about the German mentality and I posted.

[GilliC]

I love Mauer. Can we all agree that this board needs more Mauer?

As for the original question, Norway tends to believe in outdoor cats, but in the city I don't think many people are adamant about it. Most apartments don't make it possible for cats to go out easily, and with the traffic (cars and pedestrians and bikes) I don't think people are so keen on the idea.

I grew up with an indoor-outdoor cat that lived to 19, but there were nights she didn't come home, and they were scary. She also got trapped in a neighbor's garage or shed for a week and very nearly died. We had given up by the time she came crawling home, sick and starving. I just can't deal with that. My cats live inside. The older one goes to the park sometimes on a leash, where she just tries to eat grass when we aren't looking.

[crimsonandclover]

Oct 25, 2013 12:47:56 GMT -5 @publius said:

I kind of wonder if the difference in mentality has something to do with overall living conditions. I mean, walled gardens aren't all that common in urban areas in the US, in the suburbs there tend not to be a ton of fences either, and in the country pets are probably far more likely to be shot or killed/eaten by a predator than they would be in Western Europe.

But probably just as likely to be run over by a car, which was how our two cats who snuck outdoors met their demise. (We had many other cats sneak outside, just to be clear, but the two who died in their act of rebellion were both killed by cars)

[allibally]

Oct 25, 2013 11:21:08 GMT -5 GilliC said:

I love Mauer. Can we all agree that this board needs more Mauer?

Of course. Get ready because I'm sewing his Halloween costume this weekend.

[Deleted]

So this morning I stopped at Tesco to pick up donuts for work. It was pouring down rain and chilly out. In the middle of the car park was someone's orange kitty. Very healthy and well-fed, and had a collar on, so clearly somebody's pet (there are houses not too far from there). Wet kitty. Cold out. Busy Tesco car park full of old people. I just wanted to pick him up and snuggle him and find his home. It made me so sad to think about someone's pet sitting in the rain in a car park. I can't bear to think of my Roxy-muffin huddled under a trolley in a car park :-(

[Deleted]

That is an interesting perspective (the German one). Here the rescues want you to commit to keeping cats indoors and require it for fostering. Most people live in apartments here so it's not like a cat could run around a yard. And it is insanely unsafe for cats (and dogs) here outside. There are busy roads everywhere, cat traps in many apartment compounds, and cat kidnappers who will kidnap any cat, feral or otherwise, to do all manner of awful things (eat, sell for meat or fur, etc.) The police are also known to just euthanize any strays (or lost pets) that are recovered.

We always had indoor/outdoor cats growing up. It was so sad when they would disappear for more than a night or so. We got two that were sisters. One got renal failure at about 8 years old, the other disappeared outdoors last year at 12+ years old. I'm still sad about the kitty who disappeared.

If I ever have a cat in the future it will be indoor only.

[azure]

Here most cats are outdoor/indoor. There are also a lot of street cats around.
I sadly left my cats with my parents in Canada they are outdoor/indoor and are now 16, 19 and 21 years old.
We'd like to get a cat now, but we're waiting until we find a house with a garden.

[Deleted]

I've had both indoor and outdoor cats. For me it depends on whether or not we have a closed garden space and live near a busy street or how frequently we plan on moving. My current furbaby is inside all the way. People tend to be surprised that I never let him out. We tried walking him on a leash, but he got so annoying with meowing at the door to go out, that I stopped altogether. He is spoiled rotten and thinks that we are his cat family. He has us trained, so I disagree with the indoor cats is cruel idea! But growing up, my cat was indoor/outdoor and keeping him inside would have been nearly cruel. He would have hated it.