How We Need To Learn To Say No to the Elderly

[Melissa W.]

Jun 27, 2012 9:53:42 GMT -5 @hey said:

We don't know for sure that these programs will not be around in 40 years. Hell, we don't even know if this world will be around then. So, why don't you focus on the here and now, instead of listening to all the so called "experts" on tv that predict the end of these programs. If it is not around when I hit 65, then I guess I will have to worry about it then. I'm not going to sit around and be mad at my mother and all the other old people. It serves no purpose and just makes people look sad and bitter.

We worry about it now because it is the responsible thing to do. It isn't about being bitter.

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2012 9:53:42 GMT -5 @hey said:

We don't know for sure that these programs will not be around in 40 years. Hell, we don't even know if this world will be around then. So, why don't you focus on the here and now, instead of listening to all the so called "experts" on tv that predict the end of these programs. If it is not around when I hit 65, then I guess I will have to worry about it then. I'm not going to sit around and be mad at my mother and all the other old people. It serves no purpose and just makes people look sad and bitter.

You're completely missing the point. This isn't about me sitting on my couch, ranting about old people the way old people rant about kids these days and the decline of the neighborhood.

It's about making political choices that don't privilege the elderly over all other age groups. Which, I would argue, IS doing something about the here and now. It's also doing something to help my yet-to-be-conceived children.

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2012 9:53:42 GMT -5 @hey said:

We don't know for sure that these programs will not be around in 40 years. Hell, we don't even know if this world will be around then. So, why don't you focus on the here and now, instead of listening to all the so called "experts" on tv that predict the end of these programs. If it is not around when I hit 65, then I guess I will have to worry about it then. I'm not going to sit around and be mad at my mother and all the other old people. It serves no purpose and just makes people look sad and bitter.

I think your argument is flawed.

I have to pay into these programs that can't be sustained because the benefits are too generous. The average SS beneficiary will receive far more than they paid into the system, especially on the medicare side of things.

I think the fact that I have to pay for something that I'll never see vs the elderly taking responsibility for buying into a lemon (SS/medicare).

How is this any different than 30 year olds who want to blame the bank for letting them take on a $300k mortage when they only make $50k/yr?

[eclaires]

Please. MH and I plan on Social Security being done-zo by the time we are 100 or whatever the new age will eventually be.

And we're saving with that in mind. But that doesn't mean I think that we should continue funding SS the way we are. Just b/c I can plan ahead doesn't mean I want this to continue into infinity. I'm not mad b/c they get this money. I'm mad b/c they refuse to see that it isn't sustainable and more importantly, they don't give a shit b/c they got theirs. And they actively resist letting the younger generation change things, even if it won't affect them. THAT is why I'm mad - not because grandma gets a SS check each month. It's their horrible attitude and short sightedness.

[hey]

Um, actually the only problem my mother has is her thyroid, which happens to a lot of women over 40. She went to the doctor last week and her bp was 115/72. She does not have any othe problems. She is heavier than me and is still healthier than I am. I have high blood pressure, even though I eat right and exercise. Also, have all of you found some sort of tonic that is going to let you stay young, because you really act like you are never going to be old. I mean, you do realize, that when you hit old age, all the young people are going to be saying the same exact things about you, right?

[emilyj]

Jun 27, 2012 9:53:42 GMT -5 @hey said:

We don't know for sure that these programs will not be around in 40 years. Hell, we don't even know if this world will be around then. So, why don't you focus on the here and now, instead of listening to all the so called "experts" on tv that predict the end of these programs. If it is not around when I hit 65, then I guess I will have to worry about it then. I'm not going to sit around and be mad at my mother and all the other old people. It serves no purpose and just makes people look sad and bitter.

So what exactly are you personally doing now to create a safety net for yourself in case these programs are not around when you are 65?

[imawolf]

I agree with having driving tests as people get older to make sure they are still able to safely drive. The rest of this I think is just sad.

What's with the old people hate? There are plenty of younger generations that act just as entitled, if not more. Hell, there are a lot of young people that would like that government to swoop in and take care of their student loans for them. There are also plenty of people under the age of 65 that feel the government should give them relief from their delinquent mortgages. If that's not entitled, I don't know what is. What about people that abuse the social security system? There are plenty of areas to reform before we start telling the elderly to f_ off.

There is an entire generation of people that were told Medicare would cover their healthcare and social security (however misguided these programs are) would help with retirement. Why are they demonized for feeling entitled to these things? How are we more entitled to healthcare than are elders? 80 years old might look entirely different from person to person. I don't believe that you can make the determination of not treating certain illnesses or afflictions after a certain age without being completely inhumane.

This is an entire generation that raised us, taught us, fed us and cared for us. They (for the most part) deserve our respect. Just as we are going to be deserving of that respect from our children one day.

We should be more pissed at our government than our old people.

[eclaires]

Well hopefully being old doesn't automatically mean I turn into a self absorbed asshole w/ entitlement issues...

But if I do, maybe they'll make a pill for that.

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2012 10:02:31 GMT -5 imawolf said:

We should be more pissed at our government than our old people.

Aaaaaand that's the sound of the point sailing right over your head.

[eclaires]

No one wants to take their SS or their healthcare.

I want SS to quit being the topic that can't be touched. I want them to quit fighting reform/change just b/c SS is mentioned. They can have their money and healthcare. Just give the rest of us a fighting chance.

[hey]

Not to worry. I think you are already a self-absorbed asshole.

[MrsAxilla]

Jun 27, 2012 9:46:06 GMT -5 @hey said:

How are these entitlement programs? My Mother paid in to SS and pays for Medicare. She pays more for Medicare, than I ever have had to pay for insurance.

Ok, this is just false. Unless you don't have insurance and thus pay zero.

[hey]

Eclaires,

I notice you have kids. So, do you think it's okay that people that don't have kids, should have to pay school taxes, so your kids can go to school, if they go to public school?

[wawa]

really hey? This is ridiculous. Nobody is blaming YOUR mother personally. The entire point is that the current systems were set in place by the older generations, but now that the flaws are becoming apparent the AARP voting bloc is digging in their heels at any attempt to fix them. But sure...we're actually all just bitter and wants somebody to blame because we bought too much house ().

I am LOLing at your "supposed experts" comment. Do you think Social Security and Medicare are just going to magically fix themselves?

[jaylea]

Jun 27, 2012 10:16:34 GMT -5 @hey said:

Eclaires,

I notice you have kids. So, do you think it's okay that people that don't have kids, should have to pay school taxes, so your kids can go to school, if they go to public school?

You are so far off the point of this discussion, it's entertaining.

No one hates your mother.

And also - educated massses are for the betterment of society. So everyone benefits, not just those with kids. Just like roads and fire and police services - I am glad the fire dept is there to put out fires like the one last night down the street from me, even though I've never had to use them myself so far.

[imawolf]

Jun 27, 2012 10:03:24 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Jun 27, 2012 10:02:31 GMT -5 imawolf said:

We should be more pissed at our government than our old people.

Aaaaaand that's the sound of the point sailing right over your head.

Can you specifically tell me what your point is then? Your above statement was not helpful. Makes me want to go back to lurking.

Most of what I have read above is that old people are entitled and we should take away their benefits. Never mind the politicians that made promises they couldn't keep.

I admittedly have a soft spot for the elderly and am not a fan of punishing them at this point in their life. I agree that reforms do need to be made with programs for our older people.

[MrsAxilla]

Jun 27, 2012 10:16:34 GMT -5 @hey said:

Eclaires,

I notice you have kids. So, do you think it's okay that people that don't have kids, should have to pay school taxes, so your kids can go to school, if they go to public school?

Yes,because even people without children benefit from a well educated workforce.

[laurenpetro]

i just want them to stop fucking driving. and this starts with my father.

he's 73 and is NOT capable of the driving he did when he was 45. now, YOU try telling him that. because when i told him that (and i'm the only one who has) i was told that i'm just trying to make him sound like he can't take care of himself anymore so i can take over his estate. nevermind he a) has a wife who privately agrees with me but refuses to stop kissing his ass, and b) would never in a million years have me named executrix of his estate over my sister (who also agrees but won't stop kissing his ass).

so, back to the original discussion, what do you do? obviously telling someone they are no longer capable of driving (despite him causing $10K in damages to a new car) if they think they're capable isn't working. because i'm at my wits fucking end on this one. i'm so sick of being accused of trying to steal his money every time i tell him to get checked out by a doctor. i just want him to not die in a fucking car crash and more importantly, NOT KILL SOMEONE ELSE.

any suggestions?

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2012 10:17:17 GMT -5 jaylea said:

Jun 27, 2012 10:16:34 GMT -5 @hey said:

Eclaires,

I notice you have kids. So, do you think it's okay that people that don't have kids, should have to pay school taxes, so your kids can go to school, if they go to public school?

You are so far off the point of this discussion, it's entertaining.

No one hates your mother.

And also - educated massses are for the betterment of society. So everyone benefits, not just those with kids. Just like roads and fire and police services - I am glad the fire dept is there to put out fires like the one last night down the street from me, even though I've never had to use them myself so far.

And I don't know of anyone who is saying that we need to just throw old people in the street. The problem is that we need to change some of the systems set in place in this country, including Social Security and Medicare. But politically, they are largely off-limits because AARP lobbies against them.

It's not about saying "fuck the old people." It's about restructuring our society so there is not a generational transfer of wealth from young to old and to try to prevent the younger generations from being worse off than their parents.

[laurenpetro]

Jun 27, 2012 10:16:34 GMT -5 @hey said:

Eclaires,

I notice you have kids. So, do you think it's okay that people that don't have kids, should have to pay school taxes, so your kids can go to school, if they go to public school?

yes. because guess who paid for you to go to public school? old people with no kids. and do you know who paid for your mom to go to school? old people with no kids.

[druidp]

Jun 27, 2012 9:46:06 GMT -5 @hey said:

How are these entitlement programs? My Mother paid in to SS and pays for Medicare. She pays more for Medicare, than I ever have had to pay for insurance.

Yes, and I pay in SS... and chances are I'll never see a dime of it. That feels SO good every two weeks, to see that amount coming out of my check and knowing I'm paying into a vortex of government inefficiency. But hey, at least your grandmother will get hers - she's way more deserving solely due to her age. :-|

[emmybean]

hey's mom is every Old. Please respect this not at all
Anecdotey fact.

[hey]

If you are worse off than your parents....it's your fault! Stop blaming other people for your failures!

[wawa]

So...can we just ignore hey and go back to the actual topic at hand?

So how do we actually break the power of the AARP lobby? Or get them to see reason. One of those two.

[emilyj]

Jun 27, 2012 10:37:04 GMT -5 @hey said:

If you are worse off than your parents....it's your fault! Stop blaming other people for your failures!

Do you have an intelligent point to make at all in this discussion?

[emmybean]

Jun 27, 2012 10:38:52 GMT -5 wawa said:

So...can we just ignore hey and go back to the actual topic at hand?

So how do we actually break the power of the AARP lobby? Or get them to see reason. One of those two.

A death panel coup, obvs.

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2012 10:37:04 GMT -5 @hey said:

If you are worse off than your parents....it's your fault! Stop blaming other people for your failures!

really? is it really "my" fault if college costs have skyrocketed?

Let's discuss this which no one touched from page 1 of this discussion.

Jun 27, 2012 7:19:00 GMT -5 @septimus said:

There was an interesting comment on NPR yesterday. They were discussing education. One of the host commented he went to UT Austin for college back in the 70s. Tuition was so cheap that his living expenses were higher than tuition. (Even when I was at UT in the 90s tuition was cheaper than living expenses--I worked and that covered my tuition and housing costs). The host said his generation didn't pay that gift forward. Now public universities are incredibly expensive and 2/3rds of kids are graduating with SL debt and the average debt is $25k (that's a car payment on a honda civic).

His generation took but didn't give. That is the mentality of the boomers who are now the "elderly"

(I will say I'm a lucky one that did do better than my parents, but the stressed the importance of education and I married very well)

[marie427]

I don't think you can break up the AARP - although it would be interesting to see if 30- and 40-somethings will want to join when they turn 50. But I hear you somehow get "automatic" membership on your 50th birthday, is that true? Perhaps it won't be so powerful down the road if fewer people join, but that's a long ways away.

I don't think they'll see reason unless AARP members somehow get outnumbered at the voting booths or see a dramatic increase in younger people voting. They're successful because their members vote.

[MrsAxilla]

Jun 27, 2012 10:37:04 GMT -5 @hey said:

If you are worse off than your parents....it's your fault! Stop blaming other people for your failures!

My sister and I had this discussion recently. She believes that even if someone (or something, like a system) deliberately fucks you over, it's your own fault. It seems like a really unhealthy world view, actually. If the rules of the game are rigged against you, the wise player tries to change them. The stupid player just thinks they aren't good enough, blames others for not being good enough...and then is shocked when they lose.

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2012 10:37:04 GMT -5 @hey said:

If you are worse off than your parents....it's your fault! Stop blaming other people for your failures!

LOL. I had no idea that the skyrocketing cost of healthcare and education was my fault. Or that graduating into the worst economic downturn in nearly a century was also my fault. It all makes so much sense now!