1) I will never forget the whyyyyyyy meeeeee from Kerrigan. You know that bitch thinks it should have happened to someone else. She's the Julia Roberts of the figure skating world.
2) I'm a true Tonya apologist. I truly don't believe she had the grand idea to whack Kerrigan in the knee. I think she didn't think he'd do it but kind of hoped that he would. Like, "wait, he's not serious, is he? Oh, he is. No, no, that's crazy. He wouldn't . . . oh shit, he did. GOLD FOR ME!" Jeff totally strikes me as a lot of talk, no action so I bet she just didn't think he'd get it together. Also, given the way the figure skating world treated her? Yeah, don't care, ain't sorry.
3) I didn't like Tara because her heart wasn't in it. No one likes the little upstart who doesn't even care about sport or artistry and doesn't really have to work hard at it coming in and blowing up your spot.
4) I will not tell you how hard my little teenage soul cried when Grinkov died. I still think of them when I Will Remember You plays. And I may have cried a little every time Gordeeva took the ice afterwards and every time you saw their little girl. I had their book, people. For real.
5) I don't care that Surya Bonaly was surly. Surly all day, honey, you do you boo.
6) I hated ice dancing. I never understand how pairs skating looked more dance-y than ice dancing. Don't know you people, don't care about you people.
7) TOE PICK 4 LYFE!
Okay, if this had been your intro post, I would have known who you were before the Great Thread of 12/2013.
Post by redheadbaker on Jan 7, 2014 21:25:55 GMT -5
I was in 8th grade when the Kerrigan/Harding thing happened. I watched any and every figure skating exhibition and competition on TV. I remember all of the names mentioned in this thread (anybody else see the Nutcracker on Ice with Nicole Bobek? It was on TV this past Christmas.)
The clubbing happened in Detroit. Just sayin'. I remember being outraged for Nancy Kerrigan at the time. I hated that Oksana won. I didn't like Tonya Harding. I respected her athleticism, but didn't like watching her skate because she lacked... artistry? finesse? She had such rough edges. I thought her gold blades were ridic.
In hindsight, I still don't like Harding, but I don't like Kerrigan, either. She had such a sense of entitlement. In retrospect, I am glad Oksana won that gold.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
What I liked back in the days of Nancy and Tonya was it was actually WOMEN skating. I understand being young gives one an incredible advantage, but it's also part of what makes a mature skater, too. It kind of stinks you're aged out now by the time you're 20.
I wasn't a fan of ice dancing, but I took some lessons at the DSC and saw Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto there a few times. Oh, and Chen Lu! She was lovely. I wonder why they stopped skating, they were very popular there for awhile.
What I liked back in the days of Nancy and Tonya was it was actually WOMEN skating. I understand being young gives one an incredible advantage, but it's also part of what makes a mature skater, too. It kind of stinks you're aged out now by the time you're 20.
I wasn't a fan of ice dancing, but I took some lessons at the DSC and saw Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto there a few times. Oh, and Chen Lu! She was lovely. I wonder why they stopped skating, they were very popular there for awhile.
Belbin & Agosto retired from competition after the 2010 olympics, after their 2nd silver medal. They did the show/pro circuit for a year or two afterwards, but had an amicable split because they wanted to pursue different things. I think Tanith also wanted to put fine disordered eating issues behind her. Tanith stayed in the Detroit area, coaches, and does commentary. She has also been dating Charlie White for a few years! Ben moved back to the Seattle area, and also coaches/choreographs. They've gotten together 1-2 times since their retirement to skate for special events. They are both really nice and friendly in person. And Tanith is super gorgeous.
I think Chen Lu quit skating to raise babies with Russian pairs skater Dennis Petrov.
Is this the time to admit that my other message board addiction is an ice skating one? lol #crazyskatinglady
ETA: I didn't gain a true appreciation for ice dance until I actually started trying to learn some of the patterns. Holy shit do ice dancers have the hardest footwork! Seriously. I have mad respect for their level of difficulty.
What I liked back in the days of Nancy and Tonya was it was actually WOMEN skating. I understand being young gives one an incredible advantage, but it's also part of what makes a mature skater, too. It kind of stinks you're aged out now by the time you're 20.
I wasn't a fan of ice dancing, but I took some lessons at the DSC and saw Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto there a few times. Oh, and Chen Lu! She was lovely. I wonder why they stopped skating, they were very popular there for awhile.
which is another reason I loved Katerina Witt. She LOOKED like a woman....something IIRC, she was criticized for often (in that there were moves that the younger, more lithe skaters could accomplish).
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
What I liked back in the days of Nancy and Tonya was it was actually WOMEN skating. I understand being young gives one an incredible advantage, but it's also part of what makes a mature skater, too. It kind of stinks you're aged out now by the time you're 20.
Oh yeah, I forgot to say that this is due to the demise of school figures. School figures took a long time to master, which is why the average skater age was older while figures were still required for competition. Figures were replaces by moves-in-the-field, which kids can pick up much more quickly.
What I liked back in the days of Nancy and Tonya was it was actually WOMEN skating. I understand being young gives one an incredible advantage, but it's also part of what makes a mature skater, too. It kind of stinks you're aged out now by the time you're 20.
Oh yeah, I forgot to say that this is due to the demise of school figures. School figures took a long time to master, which is why the average skater age was older while figures were still required for competition. Figures were replaces by moves-in-the-field, which kids can pick up much more quickly.
Ugh, this story. [WARNING: Lengthy and possibly annoying personal account from a lurker - featuring depression, bullying and self-loathing - ahead. I really need an outlet for this, since I'm too ashamed to even bring this up in therapy.]
Hello, my name is Too Many Cardigans, but you can call me Tonya Harding. I've been doing that myself for the last 20 years.
I was 15 when the scandal broke. I cast myself as Tonya, even though I had absolutely nothing in common with her. Well, there was one thing: We didn't fit in - she in her sport, me in my school.
When I started at my small high school, I was the awkward and naive new girl who yearned to belong. I fell for a vicious and elaborate prank orchestrated by B, the most popular girl in my class. Most powerful, too - the aftermath meant that I was ostracized by everyone - even those who didn't like her. My parents sought disciplinary action against B (since the harassment included phone calls), but the principal told them there was no way she could have possibly done what we described.
Skategate '94, as I called it, happened a couple of months after that clusterfuck. I was lonely and hurting. Classmates would avoid me whenever possible. I had nowhere else to go, so I had three more years of this school to endure, alone. (Well, I had an abusive "friend" to keep me company, but that's another story.)
Naturally, I was on Team Tonya - before, and even after she got banned. She, like me, was the "ugly" outsider trying to succeed within a rigid establishment. Moreover, I was a budding feminist and believed that Tonya was convicted by the media only because she had the wrong image and was in the wrong sport - so I appreciated the Believer essay mentioned upthread. At the time, I never considered the possibility of her being involved - I was too obsessed with the image thing. (And yes, I do believe she was involved. I often theorized that the way she was treated by the skating establishment drove her to think violence and cheating was her only way to succeed. It's not right, but it's somewhat understandable. Figure skating is a fucked-up world. Still, it's not right.)
I saw myself as Tonya. B, of course, was Nancy Kerrigan. B was beautiful! Inspiring! Flawless! The embodiment of our school! Nancy's reputation later survived those bitchy remarks about Baiul and the Disney parade - oh, and her SNL debacle and likely breaking up a marriage. (People always forget those two tidbits.) B was similarly Teflon.
I was Tonya. I didn't belong in that school. So, I brought shame and disgust upon myself because I wanted to be accepted. And I deserved to be shunned and spoken of in the same way people speak of murderous dictators.
But the truth was, I really was not Tonya. I had a comfortable and stable life outside of school. I was focused on my studies. I never hung out with questionable people. If I had asthma, I wouldn't fucking smoke. And my only sins were being "weird" and believing that the popular girls were going to let me into their circle. Nothing criminal. Nothing unethical. Nothing that should have damaged me for life.
Because of my circumstances, I saw Skategate '94 in a different way than most people did - not as good versus evil, but popular versus unpopular. 1994 also was the year that I was diagnosed with clinical depression, which perhaps explains a lot about my thought processes regarding the scandal. I used a questionable person as my avatar, only because we were both in the Sisterhood of Outcasts (how you got there doesn't matter - just that you are an outcast).
Through years of therapy, I've worked very hard to move past my high school experience, and the scandal's anniversary is threatening to unravel all that progress. To this day, any time I read something about Tonya Harding, I replace her name with my own. It's not a conscious action. It brings me back to sophomore year, and I believe again that the kids in school were right - I'm vile and subhuman.
"... 20 years later, I still cannot think of a more despicable Olympian than Tonya Harding."
Here's how I read it: "... 20 years later, I still cannot think of a more despicable student at ___________ than Too Many Cardigans."
I read this at my desk at work when I had a brief break, and I started to lose it. It was nearly impossible for me to function when work picked up again ... because a respected figure called me the most despicable ever. So why bother? My fate is to be a waste of oxygen and talent like Tonya Harding, not a competent adult.
I know it's not true. I'm definitely not Tonya. But after all these years, it's hard to separate myself from her, hard to not regard the (often deserved though sometimes excessive) vitriol against her as attacks on me. For me, the worst part about Skategate was that it happened shortly after I was designated a high school outcast - a time when I was ostracized and hated myself, and I needed someone to relate to. The lasting notoriety of the scandal ensures that I'll go back to feeling that way every time someone brings Harding up. Which has been, and will be, often.
Post by NewOrleans on Jan 11, 2014 11:13:21 GMT -5
Holy shit, Cardigans.
I am really sorry B made your high school years rotten.
You know, seriously, look at people's discussions in here. We mocked the shit out of Nancy in here. A couple people discussed admiration for Tonya's athleticism. So if you superimpose identities, then you'll see Nancy/B did not come out smelling like a rose.
Also, I was a senior in hs at the time (meaning I was very aware and old enough to remember very clearly) and watched the skating world very closely in the 90's. I have no memory of anyone casting Tonya as evil or gross. A lot of eyerolls, a lot of "seriously?" or "wtf?" and, as we would say here, klassy. But vile, etc? No. Again, if you're projecting identities, your own (Tonya) is not unworthy of life or some shit.
Now, ideally, this identity thing should stop, and to that end, it really sounds like you need a counselor to work through these lingering issues.
As I mentioned, I'm in therapy, and the identity thing is something I've been working on (though I'm too ashamed to outright mention the self-linking to Tonya. My husband knows, though, so that's helped a little).
Yes, I really loved the discussions in this thread about the skating. I always followed the sport casually, even before '94, and I always preferred Tonya's skating to Nancy's (which seemed very calculated and left me cold). I'd have been Team Neither if my life were different in '94 ("Give it up, T," I would have said. "You lost your triple axel").
But it seems the mainstream consensus is that Nancy was brave and perfect - despite the dumb things she said - and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as that parasite Tonya Harding. You can see that expressed with the subtlety of a Plushenko pelvic thrust in the Swift piece I linked, and I'm sure we'll be seeing more of that sentiment as the fluff pieces and interviews pick up. (Especially since Kerrigan is on the NBC team.)
thank you for sharing @37butterknives. I know that was difficult for you. I'm glad you're in therapy to help you work through these things (also, you might consider printing out what you shared here and let your therapist read it if it's too difficult to talk about out loud). I agree with NewOrleans, too. Nancy was/is not anyone who is any sort of better or special.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
PLEASE tell me there are some Torvill & Dean fans here. Please.
Their Bolero routine is the best ice skating routine, anywhere, ever, men's/women's/pairs/ice dancing. Ever.
Me, me, me, me! Like one of their hugest fans ever. I went to England in 97(?) just to see them skate in their own tour. Got to meet them a few times too. Have every piece of video on them, ever.
This thread has been spectacular, by the way. I used to be SO into skating. Now I can't even figure out the scoring. (Seriously? Doesn't the ISU realize what a turnoff the scoring is to casual fans? We "get" 6 or 10, but this?)
Like lots of you, I have the book about G&G too.
And while I hated Kerrigan fan and was glad Baiul won and was totally charmed by her performance....in retrospect:
1) Harding was truly vile. She has way too many apologists. I get it, but really - she could have just as easily been party to a murder or or a lifetime of disability, because she didn't want to face honest competition. A lifetime ban was completely appropriate.
2) Baiul two footed her landings. Kerrigan probably should have won.
Actually, today was the first time in quite a while that I sat down to watch skating - the Nationals - but that was because the girl on the winning pairs team is local.
And who would have ever predicted that?! All my life, the US has been competitive in ladies FS, slightly less so in men's but rarely a serious threat for pairs or dance, which was always dominated by the Russians and Europeans.
Poor Great Britain. They've completely slipped out of sight after a pretty good run of Curry, Cousins and T&D from 76 to 84.
ETA: Evidently I screwed up when I was quoting Deej. I was attempting to quote "The US has two of the top dance teams. I'm not so sure about pairs." I was remarking on who would have ever predicted Americans would be competitive at dance, not doubting her excitement at nationals!
And who would have ever predicted that?! All my life, the US has been competitive in ladies FS, slightly less so in men's but rarely a serious threat for pairs or dance, which was always dominated by the Russians and Europeans.
The prestige of US dance teams really had a major shift in the early 2000s with Lang & Tscherneshyev. They laid the groundwork for international judges to take note of American teams. Belbin & Agosto got the silver in '06 and the US has been an ice dancing force ever since. The Shibutanis even got a bronze at their first outing at Senior worlds. That never would have happened under the old system!
USFSA's decisions re: the ladies and pairs teams were interesting. With one *major* exception, they basically said "fuck you" to the older skaters in order to push the next generation. Gotta love the politics of figure skating!
And who would have ever predicted that?! All my life, the US has been competitive in ladies FS, slightly less so in men's but rarely a serious threat for pairs or dance, which was always dominated by the Russians and Europeans.
The prestige of US dance teams really had a major shift in the early 2000s with Lang & Tscherneshyev. They laid the groundwork for international judges to take note of American teams. Belbin & Agosto got the silver in '06 and the US has been an ice dancing force ever since. The Shibutanis even got a bronze at their first outing at Senior worlds. That never would have happened under the old system!
USFSA's decisions re: the ladies and pairs teams were interesting. With one *major* exception, they basically said "fuck you" to the older skaters in order to push the next generation. Gotta love the politics of figure skating!
True, but even before her performance I thought the US was going to send Wagner to the Olympics. Her performance at worlds last year helped secure the US a third spot for the ladies. I wasn't impressed with Mirai's performance, it certainly wasn't as good as her Olympic program. I think the committee figured that if she was only able to finish fourth at the Olympics when she had a coach and was well trained she didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning a medal this year.
The prestige of US dance teams really had a major shift in the early 2000s with Lang & Tscherneshyev. They laid the groundwork for international judges to take note of American teams. Belbin & Agosto got the silver in '06 and the US has been an ice dancing force ever since. The Shibutanis even got a bronze at their first outing at Senior worlds. That never would have happened under the old system!
USFSA's decisions re: the ladies and pairs teams were interesting. With one *major* exception, they basically said "fuck you" to the older skaters in order to push the next generation. Gotta love the politics of figure skating!
True, but even before her performance I thought the US was going to send Wagner to the Olympics. Her performance at worlds last year helped secure the US a third spot for the ladies. I wasn't impressed with Mirai's performance, it certainly wasn't as good as her Olympic program. I think the committee figured that if she was only able to finish fourth at the Olympics when she had a coach and was well trained she didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning a medal this year.
Well, all of the US ladies are underdogs when it comes to an Oly medal. At least Mirai has competed against other international seniors, and medaled at her last Grand Prix event of this season. I'm not surprised Ashley was voted on; I'm surprised Polina was kept on. It's a classic old-school political move by USFSA to start promoting their next gen skaters with the international judges for the upcoming seasons post-olympics.
True, but even before her performance I thought the US was going to send Wagner to the Olympics. Her performance at worlds last year helped secure the US a third spot for the ladies. I wasn't impressed with Mirai's performance, it certainly wasn't as good as her Olympic program. I think the committee figured that if she was only able to finish fourth at the Olympics when she had a coach and was well trained she didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning a medal this year.
Well, all of the US ladies are underdogs when it comes to an Oly medal. At least Mirai has competed against other international seniors, and medaled at her last Grand Prix event of this season. I'm not surprised Ashley was voted on; I'm surprised Polina was kept on. It's a classic old-school political move by USFSA to start promoting their next gen skaters with the international judges for the upcoming seasons post-olympics.
Who knows, Polina could squeak in with a medal like Sarah Hughes. I wasn't really surprised that Mirai wasn't kept on the team. Sure she has more international experience than Polina, but she has been inconsistent since her Olympic performance. I also have to wonder if she was punished for showing up at Nationals without a coach.
Sarah Hughes had considerably more senior international experience than Polina does, including a World medal IIRC. I wouldn't think of them as similarly situated.
I think USFSA should have sent Polina to the 4 Continents Championship and/or Senior Worlds for development purposes. I also think USFSA should also quit "punishing" skaters.
Polina is a lovely skater with lots of potential. I'd just like to see what happens when she (a) hits puberty and (b) has to actually deal with the pressure of expectations before declaring her our Next Big Thing.