XP: Expats in the Middle East

[Pom]

There is a headhunter hot after H to consider a stint in Kuwait. Honestly, we have never considered this but maybe we should. Tax free salary and 6+ paid flights home a year make it a bit tempting. I found some blogs to check out, but I wondered if there was anyone here with first hand/or friend/or family with experiences. TIA.

All I keep thinking is...we have no primary house at the moment, no kids, and we could retire very soon.

MM sent me over here to visit with you experts! Really, we know nothing about this.

[Pom]

Thanks for the information. That makes sense. Glad to hear you are happy in SE Asia. We hope to visit there at some point.

[Deleted]

Hi Pom, by tax free salary, do you mean taxes are equalized. Part of MH's contract is that our taxes are equalized so that we are not paying any more than we would be had we not gone abroad. I couldn't tell you exactly how that works, as it is very complicated, but I wonder if that is maybe what the situation is?

We were in a similar situation when DH received his offer for a 2 year contract in Shanghai. No kids, living in an apartment, and I was in my last year of law school. DH also got a substantial raise, and there are multiple other benefits that went along with our expat package. We figured it was sort of now or, possibly, never, so despite having an offer that would have allowed us to stay in the city we were living in, we went for it. I think we are both very happy with the decision and that it will benefit us financially, culturally, etc. in the future.

6 flights are nice, but what are the other benefits included in the expat package. I'm sure you've already thought of these things to consider but what is the term of the contract, what about health insurance, cost of living adjustments, housing allowances, transportation allowances, moving allowances, etc. If it is a shorter term, such as only a year, maybe that makes the decision easier.

In the end I would definitely say consider it, get the details about the offer and sit down and crunch numbers, read up on expat experiences in the Middle East, and learn as much as you can.

[Pom]

This was the initial information that we have:

Compensation is TAX FREE in Kuwait approximately $225-250 K+ [disposable income] average to top level candidates[ it’s all subject to your experience and how you handle your interview], annual shared and performance bonuses, a western lifestyle, co car [with gas and maintenance] , 6 + weeks paid holidays per annum, 6 flights covered to the states, family medical care, education assistance for children to grade 12 at the two American schools...spouses can work/drive in a very westernized location, hours of work 7 - 3 PM daily, [relaxing lifestyle], good north American community..[ health clubs, golf, sailing clubs], annual holiday airfares for you and the family, etc. and opportunity for a career challenge and greater savings for a few years. I am contacting you as a result of reviewing your resume....

I am curious about living arrangements/housing allowance. I assume it is some kind of compound for employees and would want to know what that is like....H has a call scheduled for more details later this week.

[Deleted]

Probably a compound that caters to expats/westerners...might just be for employees but that would seem odd to me. Sounds like a fairly complete package and definitely something to consider.

Not that you are at this stage in the process, but MH's company does a look-see trip to the country to see if you are comfortable and then another trip for house hunting. I wouldn't move to a country and house you haven't seen before

I hope the call goes well and that you can get some more concrete details. I'd prepare a list of questions to ask during the call so that you don't leave anything out.

Keep us updated!

[bail229]

I'm not in the middle east but if he is going to speak to them this week make sure to ask about moving expenses. I know a lot of people who move for business often get a relocation package of some sort.

Good luck! Sounds exciting!

[crimsonandclover]

Definitely ask more about the taxes. As someone else mentioned, the foreign earned income exclusion only applies up to about $95000 (goes up a bit every year, but that's about what it is now), so you would have to pay taxes in the US for what you earn above that along with your housing, flights, etc.

[jennybee1018]

Hi! DH & I are Americans living in Doha, Qatar. we've been here since August 2009.

The allowance package sounds good, and I'd definitely ask about shipping allowance for moving over (& when you move home). Ditto the others, income is only taxed over a certain amount, and then DH's employer tax equalizes as well, so we rarely owe anything. PWC actually comes to the office to meet with us a few times a year, and they file for us. You could ask about help with filing, just to know!

And yes, the trips home will most likely be taxable! At least ours are. Additionally, we receive cash for the airfare (business class), so you could ask about how the trips are provided.

There are numerous housing options for us, some people live in compounds, while some others live in high rise towers in the city. We were allowed to choose, and we could request for a move if we wanted. Definitely ask about pre-employment trip!

The western lifestyle is definitely true. Here in Doha, we've got American fast food, shops (gap, banana, Starbucks, etc), and it doesn't feel much different than being at home. We travel often & it's easy to take a weekend trip to Dubai/Abu Dhabi/etc.

I was actually in Kuwait for my Zumba instructor training, and it seemed nice! however, I do believe it's a dry country so no alcohol, not even in the hotels, just FYI.

Overall, my DH and I are really happy we made the move to the Middle East! We're both working full time, we're almost debt free, and we've just signed on to stay 3 more years. I have a blog in case you'd like to read more about our experiences here (I haven't updated in awhile), but the earlier posts should help!!

jenniferanddaveindoha.wordpress.com/

Let me know if you have any other questions!!

[jupiter2311]

Hi! I'm here in Bahrain/Saudi Arabia, DH and I have been here about 3.5 years and grew up in Saudi. I've been to Kuwait once, as PP mentioned, it is a dry country, not that that makes it a deal breaker, but it's just an FYI. It's a nice country, after the war they really spent a lot of time to fix it up and they are very proud of it, which is nice, plus they really seem to appreciate Americans.

As for the tax free part, I think PPs did a good job explaining, here in the ME for instance, they won't tax your salary in the actual country, you will just have to pay (in the US) taxes on whatever amount is over the foreign income exclusion. With deductions and everything, it usually isn't too bad, we haven't had to pay anything yet, (However, we also have a rental house that we can deduct) and to be honest, that is a HUGE perk of living in the ME. Throw that in with the Westernized restaurants and stores and most grocery stores import a lot of goods from the US, it makes you feel a little better about being far from home.

Regarding the housing situation, it would just depend, some companies will have a compound specifically for employees depending on how large the company is, (when DH and I were living in Saudi at first, we lived on a compound specifically for people who worked at his company) but now we live on a compound in Bahrain which isn't specific to the company, it's just where we chose to live and most everyone either lives on a compound or in an apt. You would just need to ask about it.

I think the culture is also something that needs to be mentioned, Kuwait is a little more conservative - although not as much as Saudi, so that is something to keep in mind - not really a make or break deal, but just to keep in mind if you get culture shock. And things here can take a little time to get done, although depending on the company, they may have "wasta" (kind of like an "in" with people) and things can get done quickly.

We really love living here and the lifestyle feels easy a lot of the time.
Sorry I'm really groggy this morning so my thoughts seem a bit all over the place, but definitely feel free to keep us posted and ask us any questions, we're happy to help!

[jennybee1018]

I thought of a few more things! Not sure about Kuwait, but here in Doha, the majority of workers are ex-pats, so there is a lot of opportunity to meet other Americans/Brits/Aussies, etc.

Along with fast food and the western lifestyle, we also have some really awesome ethnic food! We have really great Indian, Lebanese, Turkish, etc. If you have had hummus in the US, it pales in comparison to what you'll find here!

As for dress, if I'm going to a mall or the souq, I'll always dress conservatively and cover my knees and shoulders, even in the summer. At home and around the compound or at friend's apartments, you can wear whatever you want - just as long as you're dressed modestly and respectful of the culture when you're out in public.

I work in Payroll, and a there few other allowances that we offer that you might ask about - reimbursement for wire transfer fees (this only applies if you're being paid in USD and transferring money to a Kuwait bank).

Another question you might ask is there a process for receiving mail/packages? Where DH and I work, there's a local address at the home campus, and they forward all mail and packages shipped to that address. It's really nice to be able to order from the US and not pay Intl shipping fees!

We're coming up on the holy month of Ramadan, and here in the Middle East, they shut down all restaurants from sunrise to sunset for that month, and then everything opens back up after the sunset call to prayer, and the hotels have big Ramadan tents where you can eat at buffets and smoke shisha. It's one of the few times I really feel like a part of the Muslim society, since there's not a lot of interaction between Qataris and ex-pats (at least not for me).

Okay....I'm sure I'll think of more....but will stop for now :-) Good luck deciding!

[jupiter2311]

I just wanted to comment on a few things that some posters said in MM -
as for women's rights, Saudi is the only country where you can't drive, where there are separate entrances for men/women, etc. All of the other GCC countries have made it past that stage, lol.

As for a job, if you are considering working, it just depends, not sure what your background is, but someone said it would be hard for you to get a job. I've had about 3 since we've been in Bahrain, (and it's not like I have some amazing work background), they are always looking for English teachers, etc (sometimes teachers don't even require teaching certificates...yeah think about that for some of the schools lol) Plus the company your husband is looking at might also be able to help. Anyway that's all I had left to say about it.

[oneslybookworm]

I don't live in the ME, but if it's a good package (taxes, etc.) I'd go for it! I'd love to live in the ME!

[clogged]

Hours of work are daily. As in daily daily? 7 days a week daily?

6+ flights tell me you get 3 trips (2 flights used per trip)

Obviously the blurb is pretty vague, but in your current state (no kids) it does sound like a financial gain. Even with paying taxes stateside, you aren't paying on the WHOLE amount so you still end up ahead wage-wise. I would grab a tax advisor skilled in foreign residents and see what your "real wages" would be. From there, I would get the actual details of the offer: both job wise and living wise. So far it sounds worth pursuing.

[Pom]

Our main problem with leaving the country is H's dad. He is elderly, recently divorced with several health issues. It is hard enough for us to be in South TX and him in N. Michigan.

I will definately check out your blog Jennybee and thank you everyone for all the information. We have quite a bit to consider with all of this and it helps to have input from those with these same life experiences.