I need some help (long)

[KB]

Background: DS (3.5) is in an ECSE preschool classroom 5 days a week. He is HFA, fully verbal, but a lot of scripting. He is one of the highest functioning kids in his class. He goes from ECSE to daycare on the bus M-W. His ABA therapist meets him there after nap (too bad he dropped the nap a year ago and just rolls around on his cot for 2 hours) for therapy until DH picks him up at 5. Thursdays, his grandmother picks him up and plays with him after school and I flex my schedule so I am home after school on Fridays. 

At ECSE, he has been having issues with compliance and lately, something has been setting off tantrums and toy throwing. He has also charged/hit a peer twice. We have been working closely with the teacher to try and figure out what may be causing the meltdowns. She doesn't seem to have any ideas on the antecedent. We asked for an updated FBA (they did one at the beginning of the year) and we got one but did not also get a BIP with it. After his last two meltdowns I called the teacher and also emailed the vice-principal. I spoke with the teacher for almost an hour and she kept telling me she "feels bad for DS but is out of ideas" and "what do we think may work?" The vice-principal never emailed back but did call DH to tell him if DS had another hitting incident they would call us and we would have to pick him up and keep him home for 24 hours. Additionally, if we can't get it under control they will remove DS from his current classroom and put him in a self-contained ASD classroom where the kids are non-verbal, have multiple violent outbursts a day, but all have one on one aides. I have asked for an OT eval (possible sensory component?) which they keep blowing off until the IEP next month. Yeah, not going to happen. DS's teacher also seems to think he will not qualify for OT because there isn't anything preventing him from fully accessing the curriculum. DS has mentioned he doesn't like it when other kids in his class cry or don't follow the rules and it makes him feel upset. This may be setting him off but I'm not sure. 

This last week was spring break so DS was at daycare full days with his BCBA. He had no meltdowns or problems with aggression. He was actually a joy all week. We were in a store yesterday and he found another boy that he played beautifully with for almost an hour. DH and I were shocked (and thrilled). He is back to school tomorrow and I am bracing myself for a phone call to come get him. He has already said several times today he doesn't want to go back. I am absolutely sick to my stomach thinking about tomorrow. I don't know what I am looking for here....thoughts? Suggestions? We have 8 weeks left in the year and at this point, I'm steeling myself to get through it. 

[craftyone]

Is this public? private? What is the procedure when you have issues? I know we can have IEP meetings which bring in more than just the teacher. It brings in the school's psychologist, OT, speech, administrative etc. Can you ask for a meeting? I know it's only 8 weeks of school left, but what about next school year? ? At least you can get it documented.

I'm sort of in the same boat. My son does so much better one on one and the school ratio right now is 9:2 and my son has more tantrums, has in the past hit/bit other children when the amount of students went up. I've been working since January to move him to a private preschool for at least the next year. After that point, I will see what/where they place him, if I feel like it's not right then at that point I'll probably hire an special education advocate. Sometimes I feel like schools try to do the least they possibly get by with and still meet requirements.

Hope you can get through the next 8 weeks.

[origami]

Is there a classroom aide(s) you can speak with who might give you a fuller picture of what's happening? My kids' ECSE teacher was terrible at communicating. I eventually just started asking the aide what was going on. Do you think volunteering in the classroom would help or would he act differently with you there?

[hopecounts]

Based on your description of your DS and his comments I suspect his black/white thinking is kicking in and he is getting frustrated when a kid doesn't follow the 'rules' and acts out at them.
In the less structured/rule focused daycare it is less stressful for him because there is less focus on 'rules' then his classroom. And he has his ABA there to help him.

I'd still push for an OT eval because it's certainly a possibility and can't hurt but I'd lean to he is having a hard time dealing with kids not doing what they are supposed to and gets frustrated.

[auntie]

I'm with hopecounts on this.

This is more likely a situation where his black & white thinking,  and perhaps a tendency to be the rule police, is making it difficult for him to behave in the appropriate manner. 

Ideally, you would have a BIP, an FBA without a plan forward in the form of a BIP is sort of pointless. It also sounds as if the teacher could use more itinerant support if she's "out of ideas". When we heard this from teachers, we sent DS's psychologist in to observe; we always made him available to DS's teachers if they felt they needed help. I wonder if your BCBA could observe and help find answers to why the behavior is what it is. You could re-open his IEP now and waiver the 10 Day Notification. Are they re-evaluating anything or is this just a annual CST meeting to select his placement for the next year/ESY.

That said, I wouldn't discount the self contained classroom. An ASD behavior classroom will have the structure and staffing to help him learn to behave in a manner that will allow him to transition to the mainstream when it matters academically. Let go of the notion of "high functioning"- it only means that he doesn't have a comorbid intellectual disability- i.e. an IQ measured at over 70. FWIW, being non-verbal doesn't automatically R/O also being high functioning.

The lessons of preschool- the social behavior- being part of a group, taking direction from someone who isn't mom and doing what you're told rather than what you want to do are the critical lessons to be learned in preschool. Some of the more successful students I know started out in self contained classrooms where the curriculum was behavioral and therapeutic in nature. Sometimes it's best to offer more supports early on so that the transition to mainstream is more successful. By the they're in middle school or college, nobody is going to know/care that he was in an ASD class when he was 4 if he got the help he needed there.

[KB]

I agree with you hopecounts. I also think the black and white thinking is causing the issues with a dash of sensory thrown in for good measure.

I heard back from the VP today and he said "we have contacted our ECSE consulting teacher and supervisor. Both individuals are extremely experienced and knowledgeable and we welcome their input and feedback regarding our current program of services for (DS). At this time, I do not know when they will be present to see (DS) in the classroom as that is based on their availability. However, please know that our sole focus is to improve (DS) current performance and all our efforts working together is a positive for him." I'm working on a response now.

As far as the self contained classroom, I don't have an issue with it if it is the best placement for him. I'm not commenting on levels of functioning, simply trying to give a complete back story. When speech is an issue, putting him with children who are non-verbal does not seem like the best choice. I also have concern with him picking up additional behaviors since he follows other kids closely and will often try to mimic them. His BCBA seems to think he should be in a reverse inclusion class so he has NT peer models but keeps the support. I tend to agree.

This entire process is overwhelming and he is only 3. I cringe at what is yet to come.

[gnorah]

I'm sorry, I'm from Canada so my alphabet soup is a different can from yours so I'm not sure what all the letters are! But it sounds like you have him in a special education pre-school? I'd expect a little more from the teachers in that situation than just a shoulder shrug and that they are "out of ideas."

Can his psychologist send someone in to observe? Maybe they might be able to see what's triggering the events. I also don't see the harm in getting whatever assessment you want - the more information the better. He may not qualify for any financial assistance or therapy, but it still might give you some insight into what's going on so you can advocate for him better.

This stuff is so hard some days because people look at you like you should just *know* what's going on when a lot of times you don't know either. (((hugs))) I hope you can work with the school to come up with a solution that suits you both.

[mollybrown]

Apr 21, 2014 10:48:55 GMT -5 KB said:

As far as the self contained classroom, I don't have an issue with it if it is the best placement for him. I'm not commenting on levels of functioning, simply trying to give a complete back story. When speech is an issue, putting him with children who are non-verbal does not seem like the best choice. I also have concern with him picking up additional behaviors since he follows other kids closely and will often try to mimic them. His BCBA seems to think he should be in a reverse inclusion class so he has NT peer models but keeps the support. I tend to agree.

I don't have any good advice, but my assumption is that moving your child to a more restricted setting might be just as much about the other children ECSE room as it is about what is best for him.  My son also has HFA, and he would not thrive in a room with a child that was regularly aggressive.  He just shuts down around that behavior and hides.  There may be similar children in your child's room, and the school has to balance creating the best learning environment for them with the best learning environment for your child.  

I would be open to a contained classroom as long as they have a plan for transitioning him back.  I actually tried to have my son placed in a self contained classroom with the goal of transitioning to K with no supports based on guidance I received from the professionals working with him.  My district will only place in a self contained classroom if a child can't be served any other way, so it wasn't an option.  I think getting 1 on 1 support would be incredible for most kids on the spectrum.

[auntie]

Apr 21, 2014 10:48:55 GMT -5 KB said:

As far as the self contained classroom, I don't have an issue with it if it is the best placement for him. I'm not commenting on levels of functioning, simply trying to give a complete back story.

I see. I just wanted to make the point that sometimes non-verbal kids are very bright. Sometimes parents of bright kids on spectrum have concerns about academics when their children are recommended for a self contained setting. Preschool is the ideal time to accept this option since it allows the child to get the most services in one place without missing important instructional time. For a child who is working on stigmatizing behaviors- a self contained setting can allow them to bridge to mainstream without a history of that behavior known to peers.

When speech is an issue, putting him with children who are non-verbal does not seem like the best choice.

If the children are non-verbal, they probably have a classroom designed to encourage speech. Where services for speech and language are pushed in. At this age, a lot of kids with ASD who will be academically sound may still be in an emerging speech state. The hybrid of having a ECSE ASD classroom and access to typical peers at day care could be the best of both worlds. Two of my friends have sons who were non-verbal on entering preschool; one is in a doctoral engineering program and the other is taking honors classes in high school.

I also have concern with him picking up additional behaviors since he follows other kids closely and will often try to mimic them. His BCBA seems to think he should be in a reverse inclusion class so he has NT peer models but keeps the support. I tend to agree.


Good luck finding such a program. DS's dev pedi used to suggest that DS be in a small classroom with mainstream academics and peer models. It was a swell idea, but not something that existed IRL. Alas, he could not dictate that concept to the school which offered resource with individualized instruction among others with IEPs or a mainstream class with 30 other kids as appropriate.

The reality is that many districts have pulled away from integrated settings that offer NT peer models. They're expensive. A lot of parents of well developing kids aren't interested in sending their child to special education setting for preschool. Anytime an elementary class has 1/3+ kids on IEPS- the class functions as a special education class. IME, when such classes do exist, the NT peers seek each other out leaving those on spectrum, with speech delays or intellectual challenges to buddy up with each other.

This entire process is overwhelming and he is only 3. I cringe at what is yet to come.

It gets better. You'll become more adept at understanding what your child needs and how to negotiate for that. He should, with time, need less intervention and fewer services which helps, too.