With the articles I've read so far, I think he deserted. As a US soldier we needed to get him back but he should still face the consequences for his actions. It seemed premeditated to me. A few weeks prior he mailed home his laptop and other personal items. He asked his soldier friends if they thought he could make it to China India on foot. And he left his weapon when he walked off into the mountains. Out of respect for those dead soldiers, he should answer some questions.
I haven't followed closely and I wouldn't have enough clearance to form a solid opinion anyway, but come the fuck on with "we have a sacred duty". Where was that duty the last 5 years? I consider it one of Obama's strengths that he appreciates nuance, so when he pretends it doesn't exist so as to dumb things down for public consumption it cheeses me right off.
Post by secretlyevil on Jun 3, 2014 9:38:49 GMT -5
On one hand, learning more about the culture and religion of those that hold your son captive seems smart. On the other, it can also appear a little crazy. No one can know what a person would do in that situation.
Post by secretlyevil on Jun 3, 2014 9:41:43 GMT -5
The very scientific poll on the Today Show home page is showing an overwhelming response to the question, "Was the Bowe Bergdahl release deal the right thing for the US to do?"
On one hand, learning more about the culture and religion of those that hold your son captive seems smart. On the other, it can also appear a little crazy. No one can know what a person would do in that situation.
The learning of the culture doesn't seem that strange to me.
On one hand, learning more about the culture and religion of those that hold your son captive seems smart. On the other, it can also appear a little crazy. No one can know what a person would do in that situation.
The learning of the culture doesn't seem that strange to me.
It's the tweet. I mean WTF.
Of course I can't find sources to link to but I heard either last night or this morning that he spends hours reading about the religion, then there is the tweet. Learning about the culture is one thing.
Just speculating, but I wonder if the dad thought if he could learn and get on their good side he could negotiate his son's release on his own.
This was my thought as well, and I wonder if he fell too far down the hole and started to believe it. Or had some kind of thing along the lines of Stockholm syndrome going on.
plus six people died looking for this guy did he deserve it it's ridiculous...leave no man behind thinking. he may have chosen to leave them behind.
I get what you're saying, but it's literally in our creed that we don't leave anyone behind. The circumstances don't really matter. And you'd have to be crazy to walk off base alone there, and crazy people can do crazy premeditated things.
I think that is giving him a lot of credit or assumptions, that he was crazy at the time.
Would they do that? After everything, the military would court martial him?
I can't imagine that being very good for his mental health.
Judging by the reaction of my JAG officer friends, yes.
Do court martialled people get sentenced to mental health institutions?
I seriously can't think this man should be imprisoned again. However, I don't think he's safe out there in the world either. To himself or to others. Stockholm syndrome was mentioned in regards to his father but that could be a very real situation here too.
I skimmed but I swear I heard on the news that we've had these Taliban guys for 12 years?! Is that right??? They were saying they aren't much use to either side now.
It really seemed like "hey, you got some useless old people there, we got some useless sick person here, lets just trade and call it even."
I guess I don't care about the deserter thing. No one saw him leave so there is no way to know. He's obviously fucked in the head for life so if you wanted to make sure the guy is punished/screwed or whatever then CONGRATS you got your wish!
I just feel sad about this whole thing. Have we learned nothing from Vietnam and subsequent wars about how combat effects troops? Not everyone is going to come through unscathed. Being away from home in an extremely stressful situation is enough to make some people crack. Plus him converting to Islam after 5 years? Hell, I'd probably would have done it sooner if it meant that my captors would treat me better. Again, Stockholm syndrome and all that. Especially if he was already cracked in the first place.
I hate, hate hate hate hate hate, that the Republicans jumped all over this just because Obama did it. Stop picking the extreme other side just because your "opponents" did something. You (general) are grown fucking adults, not toddlers.
Yes. And I'm sure his fellow Repubican and fellow Vietnam Vet Chuck Hagel is thrilled by the non-support. This is exhausting. McCain himself ultimately made an anti- American propaganda confession when he was imprisoned (after torture and under duress). Let's not pretend this is all brand new shit (trading of captives) just because Obama happens to be President.
I agree, it's sad. It's probably going to get pretty ugly in the way this plays out in the media. I just reread the Rolling Stone piece about him that was published a couple of years ago; it provides some interesting context: m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607
Post by secretlyevil on Jun 3, 2014 14:38:27 GMT -5
Maybe McCain thinks one American life is worth the sacrifice. Wow, this article says he was traded for five. I swear I had heard/read two before. I do appreciate him voicing his opinion on this:
But one broad Republican concern that McCain does not share is the legality of President Barack Obama’s actions. Several senior Republicans have complained that Obama broke the law by not notifying Congress of his actions to free Bergdahl — but this is not a sentiment shared by McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam.
“I may be a little bit of a departure here from the normal Republican,” he said. “I don’t think that Congress should be legislating that kind of constraint on the commander in chief.”
I just feel sad about this whole thing. Have we learned nothing from Vietnam and subsequent wars about how combat effects troops? Not everyone is going to come through unscathed. Being away from home in an extremely stressful situation is enough to make some people crack. Plus him converting to Islam after 5 years? Hell, I'd probably would have done it sooner if it meant that my captors would treat me better. Again, Stockholm syndrome and all that. Especially if he was already cracked in the first place.
I hate, hate hate hate hate hate, that the Republicans jumped all over this just because Obama did it. Stop picking the extreme other side just because your "opponents" did something. You (general) are grown fucking adults, not toddlers.
I think there's a fair debate over whether Obama was right to trade the Gitmo prisoners for the release, especially considering he didn't go through Congress, and the weirdness in the father's tweet makes me wonder what was going on. There's a lot we will never know, and I can understand why people are rattled at how the trade went down and the bigger context in which he was released. We'll never have enough information to make an informed decision on whether the administration acted properly here, so I'm not going to even try to guess, but I'll give legitimate critics a pass on this one.
But it's the smearing of the soldier is making me really, really uncomfortable.
The debate about what Obama did can be had even if he was snatched from his bunk. What purpose is served by smearing this man? For all we know, the Obama administration had actual good information that he was mentally ill at the time of the alleged "desertion" and that's why they responded the way they did. It's not like Obama is going to get up there and waive this guy's medical records all over the place. If people want to believe the worst in Obama, they should ask whether the Pentagon knew he was mentally ill and put him back out on the battlefield anyway and have covered up PTSD, etc.
Maybe McCain thinks one American life is worth the sacrifice. Wow, this article says he was traded for five. I swear I had heard/read two before. I do appreciate him voicing his opinion on this:
But one broad Republican concern that McCain does not share is the legality of President Barack Obama’s actions. Several senior Republicans have complained that Obama broke the law by not notifying Congress of his actions to free Bergdahl — but this is not a sentiment shared by McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam.
“I may be a little bit of a departure here from the normal Republican,” he said. “I don’t think that Congress should be legislating that kind of constraint on the commander in chief.”
I think we are getting away from the fact that the legitimacy of Guantanamo is an issue here as well. Obama pledged to close it down - he pussied out as soon as Congresspeople started complaining that some of the detainees would be in prisons on American soil. Every day that Guantanamo remains open undermines our position as the standard bearer of freedom and democracy and due process. There is really no legitimate right to continue to detain these men - if there ever was one. They are not being prosecuted - just held. If we have evidence against them - it should be presented and judged by a court or hell, I'd even support a military tribunal at this point. The problem is that there is not evidence against many of these men that would withstand judicial scrutiny. We have no right to hold them indefinitely. I had read somewhere that these 5 had been scheduled to be released 2 years ago. I think this point is getting lost in this discussion.