Post by penguingrrl on Jun 4, 2014 11:55:02 GMT -5
I have absolutely no issue with schools having dress codes. School is a professional environment for kids and by HS this is teaching kids that what you wear to the beach or the club isn't appropriate in a professional environment.
That said, the rules need to be very clearly laid out and not gender-specific. In my HS we had blanket rules that were absolutely applied equally to both sexes. We couldn't wear shorts or dresses/skirts more than 2" above the knee (which was hard to find even as a very short person because short skirts were in fashion), no bare shoulders whatsoever, no sagging pants, no visible undergarments, no bare midriffs, no hats. Some of those were very clearly indicative of a particular sex given what was in style (hats and sagging pants for boys, length of skirts/shorts for girls) but they weren't stated as such.
Also, I take serious issue with a dress code stated to be avoiding distracting to the boys. Let's give our boys a little credit that maybe they can still continue thinking when a pretty girl walks by. It's insulting to suggest they can't. I also teach my children how to dress appropriately for the occasion not because of sexual concerns but because there is a time and place and an appropriate way to dress for the setting that has nothing to do with members of the opposite sex ogling. I want my girls to respect themselves more than to want to dress like little tramps and I want my son to understand that a woman is deserving of respect no matter what she's wearing or not. But I also want them all to understand social mores regarding dress.
I have absolutely no issue with schools having dress codes. School is a professional environment for kids and by HS this is teaching kids that what you wear to the beach or the club isn't appropriate in a professional environment.
That said, the rules need to be very clearly laid out and not gender-specific. In my HS we had blanket rules that were absolutely applied equally to both sexes. We couldn't wear shorts or dresses/skirts more than 2" above the knee (which was hard to find even as a very short person because short skirts were in fashion), no bare shoulders whatsoever, no sagging pants, no visible undergarments, no bare midriffs, no hats. Some of those were very clearly indicative of a particular sex given what was in style (hats and sagging pants for boys, length of skirts/shorts for girls) but they weren't stated as such.
Also, I take serious issue with a dress code stated to be avoiding distracting to the boys. Let's give our boys a little credit that maybe they can still continue thinking when a pretty girl walks by. It's insulting to suggest they can't. I also teach my children how to dress appropriately for the occasion not because of sexual concerns but because there is a time and place and an appropriate way to dress for the setting that has nothing to do with members of the opposite sex ogling. I want my girls to respect themselves more than to want to dress like little tramps and I want my son to understand that a woman is deserving of respect no matter what she's wearing or not. But I also want them all to understand social mores regarding dress.
Well, this is exactly the kind of misogynistic mentality that's being criticized when it comes to dress codes.
I have absolutely no issue with schools having dress codes. School is a professional environment for kids and by HS this is teaching kids that what you wear to the beach or the club isn't appropriate in a professional environment.
That said, the rules need to be very clearly laid out and not gender-specific. In my HS we had blanket rules that were absolutely applied equally to both sexes. We couldn't wear shorts or dresses/skirts more than 2" above the knee (which was hard to find even as a very short person because short skirts were in fashion), no bare shoulders whatsoever, no sagging pants, no visible undergarments, no bare midriffs, no hats. Some of those were very clearly indicative of a particular sex given what was in style (hats and sagging pants for boys, length of skirts/shorts for girls) but they weren't stated as such.
Also, I take serious issue with a dress code stated to be avoiding distracting to the boys. Let's give our boys a little credit that maybe they can still continue thinking when a pretty girl walks by. It's insulting to suggest they can't. I also teach my children how to dress appropriately for the occasion not because of sexual concerns but because there is a time and place and an appropriate way to dress for the setting that has nothing to do with members of the opposite sex ogling. I want my girls to respect themselves more than to want to dress like little tramps and I want my son to understand that a woman is deserving of respect no matter what she's wearing or not. But I also want them all to understand social mores regarding dress.
Well, this is exactly the kind of misogynistic mentality that's being criticized when it comes to dress codes.
You're right and I will word the thought differently.
I hope my daughters respect themselves enough not to want to wear ultra short or ultra tight clothing simply because they feel it will increase male attention (if it's that they genuinely feel it looks good that's a different story and then we talk about club/beach versus school). I knew many girls in HS who did that exact thing and considered every outfit in terms of "what will the boys like" instead of what made them feel good about themselves and what they felt was attractive. These same girls also took more risks in terms of sexual experiences that they were interested in for the attention, not for their own pleasure, and took a lot of safety risks with them as far as forgoing condoms because the guy didn't like them. I hope my daughters have more self esteem than those girls did because I'm pretty sure the root of what they were doing was a serious self esteem issue and need for male attention in particular. And I'm not opposed to them having sex, but I hope they are more judicious in choice of partner (not someone who refuses a condom despite having multiple partners) and in terms of protecting themselves.
Well, this is exactly the kind of misogynistic mentality that's being criticized when it comes to dress codes.
You're right and I will word the thought differently.
I hope my daughters respect themselves enough not to want to wear ultra short or ultra tight clothing simply because they feel it will increase male attention (if it's that they genuinely feel it looks good that's a different story and then we talk about club/beach versus school). I knew many girls in HS who did that exact thing and considered every outfit in terms of "what will the boys like" instead of what made them feel good about themselves and what they felt was attractive. These same girls also took more risks in terms of sexual experiences that they were interested in for the attention, not for their own pleasure, and took a lot of safety risks with them as far as forgoing condoms because the guy didn't like them. I hope my daughters have more self esteem than those girls did because I'm pretty sure the root of what they were doing was a serious self esteem issue and need for male attention in particular. And I'm not opposed to them having sex, but I hope they are more judicious in choice of partner (not someone who refuses a condom despite having multiple partners) and in terms of protecting themselves.
Hrm. There's still some policing girls' sexual decisions via their wardrobes in this, whereas the same is not true for boys at all. It's unsettling.
hmm, I could see that I suppose…I never really considered the tightness of clothes since it was never an aspect of our policy. The girls wore super tight skinny jeans…as did some of the boys, I never really considered it.
But, I see your point that when girls dress a certain way they are seen as skanky - that isn't the case, ever, for boys.
Also, Proboards autocorrects skanky to swanky. Um, no.
I don't know about that. What about skinny jeans on um...well...endowed men? It's man-skanky, IMO, not to mention terribly distracting in a bad way. I was at a convention and there was a guy there in skinny, bright green "dress pants". By definition, it met a dress code of sorts--long sleeved business shirt, blazer, pants..check, check, check. But the pants must have been a size 2P from Ann Taylor and you didn't have to use your imagination to know what his naughty bits looked like. Maybe this is not an issue for boys, at least I hope not, but still...
I had an AP history teacher in HS, he was 60+ and wore the tightest pants. He used to prop his foot up Captain Morgan style and lecture. The outline was so so apparent. It made me super uncomfortable.
You're right and I will word the thought differently.
I hope my daughters respect themselves enough not to want to wear ultra short or ultra tight clothing simply because they feel it will increase male attention (if it's that they genuinely feel it looks good that's a different story and then we talk about club/beach versus school). I knew many girls in HS who did that exact thing and considered every outfit in terms of "what will the boys like" instead of what made them feel good about themselves and what they felt was attractive. These same girls also took more risks in terms of sexual experiences that they were interested in for the attention, not for their own pleasure, and took a lot of safety risks with them as far as forgoing condoms because the guy didn't like them. I hope my daughters have more self esteem than those girls did because I'm pretty sure the root of what they were doing was a serious self esteem issue and need for male attention in particular. And I'm not opposed to them having sex, but I hope they are more judicious in choice of partner (not someone who refuses a condom despite having multiple partners) and in terms of protecting themselves.
Hrm. There's still some policing girls' sexual decisions via their wardrobes in this, whereas the same is not true for boys at all. It's unsettling.
If my son were wearing things just because he felt it would make him more attractive to girls and it otherwise was inappropriate for where he was going I would say the same to him (particularly if it was purposely tight to show off his penis). If 70s-style short shorts come back in fashion my son will not be wearing them for the same reason my girls wouldn't. But as things stand right now it's far more of an issue for girls/women than it is for boys/men because of what styles are popular.
Hrm. There's still some policing girls' sexual decisions via their wardrobes in this, whereas the same is not true for boys at all. It's unsettling.
If my son were wearing things just because he felt it would make him more attractive to girls and it otherwise was inappropriate for where he was going I would say the same to him (particularly if it was purposely tight to show off his penis). If 70s-style short shorts come back in fashion my son will not be wearing them for the same reason my girls wouldn't. But as things stand right now it's far more of an issue for girls/women than it is for boys/men because of what styles are popular.
In other words, girls are being punished and policed because they live in a culture that's already punishing and policing them.
All I know is I fucking hated the fingertip rule when I was in school. I have long arms and a short torso so my mom had to custom make all my shorts. Meanwhile the class t-rex got to wear hot pants every day with no repercussions.
And I begged my school to switch to a fingertip rule. Our rule was 3" above the knees & I'm 6' tall. I never got to wear shorts to school. Even bermudas were too short.
I don't know about that. What about skinny jeans on um...well...endowed men? It's man-skanky, IMO, not to mention terribly distracting in a bad way. I was at a convention and there was a guy there in skinny, bright green "dress pants". By definition, it met a dress code of sorts--long sleeved business shirt, blazer, pants..check, check, check. But the pants must have been a size 2P from Ann Taylor and you didn't have to use your imagination to know what his naughty bits looked like. Maybe this is not an issue for boys, at least I hope not, but still...
I had an AP history teacher in HS, he was 60+ and wore the tightest pants. He used to prop his foot up Captain Morgan style and lecture. The outline was so so apparent. It made me super uncomfortable.
I feel like every school has this teacher. Maybe not that particular age, but there is always that one male teacher who wears pants that are too tight and sits or stands in a completely inappropriate fashion.