In regards to him booby-trapping his apartment, I wonder if he did that thinking it would cause a diversion and tie up the police while he shot up the theater. From what I read, he put loud music on a timer and left his door unlocked...did he think/hope someone would go in? It almost worked...a neighbor almost did after she banged on his door to tell him to shut it off. So I wonder if he didn't confess to the police about the booby traps, but instead made a a comment believing the bombs had gone off, and they figured it out. ;.
A little conspiracy theory here - But if professor had the book and did nothing, then the shooting happens and he says "oh crap. they need this for evidence but I can't let them know I had it." Then he gets a new envelope, writes Holmes name and his on it, chucks the diary in it, pays mailroom clerk $$ to help him adjust the time and date on the postage meter (easily done at my workplace anyway) and stamps the new envelope, stashes it in the mail room, and calls the police about bogus letter. Viola! Police have the notebook for evidence in an unopened envelope dated a week ago, and Professor is "free" from the guilt of having it and doing nothing.
How does this professor have a package he believes is from the suspect, which they find out isn't, only to find there is another one on campus that spells out the crime in detail? Not sure I am buying this.
It's the middle of the summer. On a college campus. This is weird. Did he *think* it would get read?
Everything about this is completely bizarre to me.
My sister is in a phd program (in neuroscience, oddly) and her work/research doesn't stop in the summer.
My work/research doesn't stop in the summer. However, I do it all at home. I haven't seen my on campus mailbox since May. I can see a package sent to a professor in the middle of the summer going unseen.
My sister is in a phd program (in neuroscience, oddly) and her work/research doesn't stop in the summer.
My work/research doesn't stop in the summer. However, I do it all at home. I haven't seen my on campus mailbox since May. I can see a package sent to a professor in the middle of the summer going unseen.
My sister has to go to campus; that's where her lab is. I don't think the science labs shut down during the summer.
With regards to why people keep calling him the "Joker," it is because when he was arrested outside of the theater, HE told the police that he was the Joker. This wasn't inferred by anyone. He was the one who said it.
www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/ ...excerpt Both sources said the intended recipient of Holmes’ notebook was a professor who also treated patients at the psychiatry outpatient facility, located in Building 500, where the first suspicious package was delivered. It could not be verified that the psychiatrist had had previous contact with Holmes, who was a dropout from the school’s neuroscience doctoral program and had studied various mental health issues and ailments as part of his curriculum.
He saw patients, he was there in the summer. This guy is not to blame. Have you seen professor's offices, especially those involved in research? I wouldn't be surprised if most mail went a few weeks without being opened.
I mean, I just retrieved a box full of mail for my department--it hadn't been checked since June. I'll bet the professor feels major guilt over missing it, but it's not unusual for things to go unchecked in the summer on a college campus. It's impossible to say whether Holmes realized that.
Wasn't he a grad assistant for his PhD program? Or am I making that up? If he was, yes he knew the campus would be a ghost town. Hell, my assumption on that is based on having gone to college and then seeing the campus in the summer. So if it seemed to me that the mail probably just sits somewhere until professors randomly drop by all, "Hmmm I wonder if I should check my mailbox", I don't know why he would think it would be found.
Unless the guy was teaching summer courses, or was known to be in his lab over the summer, or they have a secretary who delivers mail to offices. It seems obvious to you and me that Holmes knew it would sit in the post office, but that's just speculation based on our experiences.
This feels like a really nitpicky sidebar, but it is interesting to speculate whether he wanted it to be found or not... I doubt they would ever let him on the stand, but I'm interested in what he has to say about it all.
Oh, you're right. So what the fuck with the red hair.
As for mental illness, I mean, yeah, but which one. The only one that seems to pop up sort of out of no where is schizophrenia and the initial "break" is usually earlier, like late teens, right? Not an expert on mental illness, but it would seem that he definitely was not right in the head. Just wonder what specifically is wrong with him.
The Joker changed his hair to red in the last scene before blowing up the hospital. Not that I care or want to link this whole crazy shit to batman, but ya:
I'll have to double check w/ my sis but this whole line of thinking that it was summer so no one was there so he didn't want to be discovered doesn't seem to ring true w/ neuroscience PhD programs....
But I don't know if the recipient was part of the neuroscience dept.
Why is everyone jumping to mental illness. What if it was drugs?
Also, what if he is just a sociopath? That's not necessarily a mental illness issue.
The attack had been planned and weapons acquired over a period of months, which suggests some kind of ongoing disturbed state. I wouldn't think drugs would do that.
He could be a sociopath, sure, but this just seems more like the act of someone delusional.
I'll have to double check w/ my sis but this whole line of thinking that it was summer so no one was there so he didn't want to be discovered doesn't seem to ring true w/ neuroscience PhD programs....
But I don't know if the recipient was part of the neuroscience dept.
The recipient was a psych professor. Cotner posted a few posts up that the professor apparently was on campus during the summer treating patients in the outpatient facility.
I would like to say that it is highly plausible for a professor to be on campus and not consistently check their mailbox though. I'll admit that during the school year, I might check mine every couple weeks or so, and I know I'm not the only one in my department that does that.
I can't hold the professor/university responsible for this.
The attack had been planned and weapons acquired over a period of months, which suggests some kind of ongoing disturbed state. I wouldn't think drugs would do that.
He could be a sociopath, sure, but this just seems more like the act of someone delusional.
I hate to be all Oprah about it too, but aren't there usually signs that someone is a sociopath. I mean, no one has come forward saying that he tortured animals as a kid or was a bully in grade school. I mean, seriously the most sociopathic behavior anyone has even mentioned is that he was a "loner." Which is not exactly diagnostic of a pathology.
And I don't mean my tone to be argumentative at all. I'm actually just completely puzzled by this guy. I find all the ideas people are tossing out in here really interesting.
The odd thing is that you had other people who have been drinking with him, he would go to small gatherings at people's homes, he had a girlfriend and old college buddies. So he wasn't a completely isolated loner.
I'll have to double check w/ my sis but this whole line of thinking that it was summer so no one was there so he didn't want to be discovered doesn't seem to ring true w/ neuroscience PhD programs....
But I don't know if the recipient was part of the neuroscience dept.
I wonder that too. Was a psych person right? Is that neuroscience or its own department?
My brother is a neuroscientist and he works in the Department of Psychiatry at his university. I think Holmes probably knew this professor.
A little conspiracy theory here - But if professor had the book and did nothing, then the shooting happens and he says "oh crap. they need this for evidence but I can't let them know I had it." Then he gets a new envelope, writes Holmes name and his on it, chucks the diary in it, pays mailroom clerk $$ to help him adjust the time and date on the postage meter (easily done at my workplace anyway) and stamps the new envelope, stashes it in the mail room, and calls the police about bogus letter. Viola! Police have the notebook for evidence in an unopened envelope dated a week ago, and Professor is "free" from the guilt of having it and doing nothing.
How does this professor have a package he believes is from the suspect, which they find out isn't, only to find there is another one on campus that spells out the crime in detail? Not sure I am buying this.
That is a good question, but that is exactly what this article says happened (with regards to calling about one package but finding another). news.yahoo.com/report-colorado-shooting-suspect-sent-plans-notebook-psychiatrist-170815999.html <portion from article>The Fox News report said police and FBI agents were called to the University of Colorado Anschutz medical campus in Aurora on Monday morning after a psychiatrist who is a professor at the school reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect.
Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services' mailroom turned up another parcel sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes' name in the return address, the source told Fox News.
Post by cattledogkisses on Jul 25, 2012 16:11:47 GMT -5
Add me to those baffled by all the conflicting things about this guy. Part of me is wondering if this was some kind of cry for help, and another part of me is wondering if taking the gamble on how often someone was checking their mail during the summer was some kind of thrill for him.
And I'll say that I'm a PhD student who works on campus through the summer, but I only check my mailbox maybe once a month, if that. Judging by the overflowing mailboxes in our mailroom, I'm not the only one who's bad about checking my mail. Seems to be a common phenomenon, at least where I work. I don't fault the professor in any way.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
You guys keep saying he told the police that he booby trapped his apartment.
Are you sure - or did I miss something new?
Because I thought he told police there were more weapons at his apt, and that's not exactly the same as telling them it was booby trapped.
I thought he expected them to just walk in there to recover them.
Maybe he just decided that killing people wasn't as satisfactory as he thought it would be. Or maybe the booby trap was only meant for police if they killed him, tit for tat.
Why is everyone jumping to mental illness. What if it was drugs?
Also, what if he is just a sociopath? That's not necessarily a mental illness issue.
I'm with you. I'm so fucking sick of everyone claiming the problem is mental health stigma/lack of healthcare. Yes, those are real issues, but what kind of stigma do you think it creates when you assign mental health as the blame to any sort of violence? I don't think those with mental illness commit violence at a different rate than the general public.
I think it's a no true scotsman fallacy that people want to say healthy individuals don't shoot up a theater ergo he wasn't healthy.
Why is everyone jumping to mental illness. What if it was drugs?
Also, what if he is just a sociopath? That's not necessarily a mental illness issue.
I'm with you. I'm so fucking sick of everyone claiming the problem is mental health stigma/lack of healthcare. Yes, those are real issues, but what kind of stigma do you think it creates when you assign mental health as the blame to any sort of violence? I don't think those with mental illness commit violence at a different rate than the general public.
I think it's a no true scotsman fallacy that people want to say healthy individuals don't shoot up a theater ergo he wasn't healthy.
You can be a true asshole and not be mentally ill.
Being a sociopath is defined in the DSM as a mental condition though...actually it's been retermed as Antisocial Personality Disorder. Additionally having Antisocial Personality Disorder DOES mean that you would display at least three of the following Callous unconcern for the feelings of others. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations. Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them. Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence. Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment. Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.
He may not be mentally ill--but if he's not then he doesn't have Antisocial Personality Disorder--IE not a sociopath.
Also to your comment that those who have a mental condition may not commit crime more or less than those who aren't--depends on the condition. Antisocial Personality Disorder IS connected with higher crime.
Why is everyone jumping to mental illness. What if it was drugs?
Also, what if he is just a sociopath? That's not necessarily a mental illness issue.
I'm with you. I'm so fucking sick of everyone claiming the problem is mental health stigma/lack of healthcare. Yes, those are real issues, but what kind of stigma do you think it creates when you assign mental health as the blame to any sort of violence? I don't think those with mental illness commit violence at a different rate than the general public.
I think it's a no true scotsman fallacy that people want to say healthy individuals don't shoot up a theater ergo he wasn't healthy.
Agreed. Look at the guy who shot up the LA Fitness because he was angry at his ex girlfriend or the guy who killed all those people in the hair salon to get back at his ex wife. Not mentally ill, just angry assholes with guns. Or heck, the 9/11 hijackers or your average terrorist.
But the apparent lack of motive plus the planning and other strange behavior make me suspect mental illness here.
Also to your comment that those who have a mental condition may not commit crime more or less than those who aren't--depends on the condition. Antisocial Personality Disorder IS connected with higher crime.
This. I have a bigger issue with all mental health diagnosis being lumped into one big "Mental Illness" category. Schizophrenia != BiPolar != Antisocial Personality Disorder != Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, etc. The fact that he planned this out for so long, with no clear motive, and appears (as far as we know) to show no remorse points solidly at Antisocial Personality to me. But that doesn't mean he should be lumped in with other "mental illness" or have his actions apply to an overall stigma. It also doesn't mean he wasn't responsible for his crimes. If I remember correctly, APDs know right from wrong, they just don't care.
the only part that I don't understand is it being stuck in a mailroom. I can see it being stuck in the mailBOX of the professor and untouched. even if they are here yearround (which psychiatry professors are), most of them take vacations in summer. they could easily have been on vacation for all or part of this time, and even then some profs in our department have two mailboxes (one in the clinic and one nearer their office) and they don't always check them in a timely manner or things get misrouted etc.