My son,4, is attending his second year of half-day Montessori preschool at a public school. Yesterday, when I asked him about his day, he told me that he didn't get recess because he had to do "work" (the Montessori word for what they do at the stations around the classroom). He had said the same thing the day before, that he didn't get recess. I thought he must've gotten confused, so I sent an email to the teacher asking for clarification (I kept my tone very neutral). Here was her response:
Good morning,
Wednesday the morning kiddos leave before we even go out to recess. He did stay in on Thursday to work. He spent most of the morning wondering around the classroom and playing with the sound boxes. The kids know that they have to get three goals done before recess. Otherwise they work at recess either inside or outside. It's a time management thing we are working on. Most days your son does not get three goals done so Thursday I had him working and by the time he got done it was already time for the kids to come inside. I normally don't keep preschoolers inside however I spoke with him about managing his time better during the work time so he can focus on getting goals/works done. I just wanted to make sure he understood what work time entailed and the consequences for playing around at work time. Normally he works hard and only needs one reminder to stay on task but Thursday he was off task the majority of the morning. I hope this better explains it for you.
I am pretty upset. From what I have read (studies and recommendations), recess is very important to young children, and should only be taken away as a last resort. In fact, I recall the principal mentioning the importance of recess in a newsletter last year.
Would you be mad? I need help articulating a response to her that won't come off hostile and maybe offers some suggestions on how to discipline (does he even need to be?) without taking away recess.
Other (possibly) relevant information: He has been very difficult at home this past week. Lots of time outs.
I don't think I would be mad. I am all about earning privileges, setting goals and having consequences. This is the age to learn them now. DD is 4 about to be 5 and she has good and bad days but she is also learning quickly if she doesn't do what she is supposed to then she will get a privilege taken away.
Yeah...we are at a Montessori school that has "work" books that have to be completed by like, the end of the their time at the preschool, but this is crazy. And this teacher stays inside with your DS while everyone else goes to recess? That's strange and I would not like it. At all. He's 4.
Yes I'd be upset. I understand that she's trying to teach him a lesson but maybe she should work harder on actually moving him along before she punishes him.
Post by hopecounts on Sept 26, 2014 9:16:39 GMT -5
Given the entire situation (i.e. he was goofing off when he was suppossed to be working) I wouldn't be upset about this. He had his recess it was just inside when he wasn't working on his assignments. Love and Logic, you don't do your work when you are suppossed to you have to do it later instead of something else that might be more fun. It's not like he had no clue recess was coming up and he needed to be finished to join his class.
I don't think I would be mad either, based on the information given. The kids were told the expectation (three goals completed before recess) and the consequence (working during recess if goals are not completed). Yes, they're preschoolers but IMO introducing and reinforcing the idea that our choices have consequences is something that should be started early on. It also sounds like he's had a rough week in general based on the fact that he usually has his goals completed before recess and his behavior has been off at home, so I'd let it ride for now but keep an eye on things.
Post by undecidedowl on Sept 26, 2014 9:22:29 GMT -5
I don't think I would be mad. It sounds like he was basically playing during work time so he had to do his work during recess play time. Now, if he had been working hard and just not able to finish that would be different. It also sounds like it was a one time thing. If it becomes an ongoing issue where he is frequently missing recess then I would want to brainstorm alternative ideas.
I wouldn't be happy about it but I wouldn't be mad, either. More frustrated that he's not doing his work and I hadn't been informed since it sounds ongoing and not like a one-off. At his age, I would expect her to be more on top of him with support/reminders to work, time to move to a new box, etc. If she's going to take recess away, which is pretty drastic, then there should be some steps in between on her end.
Post by mollybrown on Sept 26, 2014 9:51:07 GMT -5
I would not be mad. If he's going to be successful in Montessori, he needs to learn how to be self motivated and actually learn during work cycles. This method doesn't work if a child just wanders around and doesn't get anything done. If you plan to keep him at this school long term, best that he figure it out early. Do you have other suggestions for the teacher?
Ultimately, I had to take my son out of Montessori because he has issues that hinder him being able to have so much unstructured time during class. If missing recess a few times would have fixed it, I would have been all for it.
I dont know how upset I'd be, but I think taking away recess is a little extreme. And what does the morning kids leaving before recess have to do with anything? Her email doesnt make sense.
I would not be mad. If he's going to be successful in Montessori, he needs to learn how to be self motivated and actually learn during work cycles. This method doesn't work if a child just wanders around and doesn't get anything done. If you plan to keep him at this school long term, best that he figure it out early. Do you have other suggestions for the teacher?
I agree with this, it sounds like he is often wandering around instead of working so she needed to be more firm with him to get her point across. Since it's only a half day of learning I don't see missing out on recess as that big of a deal, he can have free play all afternoon.
I would be upset. I have heard from teachers and our doctor that outside play time should not be taken away as a punishment. Also, isn't part of Montessori, learning and doing things at the child's speed. I feel like assigning a certain number of activities to complete may be too much.
I don't think that recess should be taken away as punishment, but I don't disagree with him having a consequence for not getting his work done. I'm wondering exactly what the 3 goals are - are they hard to reach? are other kids having trouble with them?
Post by oliviapope on Sept 26, 2014 10:39:59 GMT -5
I would not be upset with the teacher at all. Usually 3 works is just three lessons-which in Montessori is some type of manipulative materials. It sounds like the teacher was on top of it and trying to redirect. He was "playing" and not working. In my opinion she didn't punish him, she just let him play inside when he needed it, and let him work when he was ready. I would use this as a time to help him focus on time management, and not harp on the teacher for not trying "hard enough". She has a room full of other students that need her attention as well. By letting him do his work during recess she could give him the 1:1 attention it seems like he needed that day.
I would be upset if he was working super hard and only got one work completed, and then had to miss recess. I would also be upset if he got to go outside but only sit and watch. But this seems like a good natural consequence lesson to me.
Post by ringstrue on Sept 26, 2014 10:55:53 GMT -5
I would be upset but I'm not a fan of Montessori anyway. I'd want my kid going outside every day along with the other kids and not to be excluded/punished/however you choose to define it. Time management skills?! You've gotta be kidding me.
Here's the thing. Kids need a breather. Even though they learn through play, they need to be able to run, get some fresh air, and burn off the seemingly endless energy they have. I understand teaching time management, but if the child wasn't focused before, he sure as hell won't be focused after seeing all his friends go out and play.
I agree that there need to be consequences for not meeting stated goals. However, outdoor play should not be on the list. I'm a dcp and we are forbidden to take away outdoor free play.
Post by thejackpot on Sept 26, 2014 11:06:26 GMT -5
I would not be mad. I think that expecting him to get x amount done is reasonable. I also don't think it feels as punitive as others are making it out to be. He goofed off so technically he has had his "free" time. There will be plenty of time during the day to run off his energy. If this happens consistently then perhaps the Montessori method may not be a good fit. My son is in Montessori and there are very real expectations about time management and self pacing. He had to get used to it and it wasn't always pretty. Even this year as he has moved to a higher level, he has to get used to pacing himself in this class setting.
Post by dragonfly08 on Sept 26, 2014 11:12:03 GMT -5
I personally wouldn't be that upset. My own elementary schooler has lost recess time here and there over the years b/c she had work she should have finished in class but didn't, and I was absolutely fine with that. It wasn't every day, it was due to her own lack of focus during class, and she's plenty active overall. I get not wanting to take away recess but at the same time, I don't believe that physical activity/down time/etc. are limited to outdoor play...my own kids move plenty but actually don't like to play outside all that much (and never can during the week in the winter due to the fact that it's dark within 15 minutes of their arrival home). It appears he was pretty active in the classroom, "wondering" around and playing to the point where the expected tasks weren't getting done. Given that recess was probably the only option for completing those tasks, it seems a natural consequence rather than a true punishment (semantics, I know). If he learns from it and moves on, it works for me. If it becomes habitual, perhaps (based on what other posters have said, b/c I admit to having very little knowledge about it) the Montessori environment isn't the right one for him. Good luck!
Post by sixtwelve on Sept 26, 2014 11:16:07 GMT -5
I would not be mad but that sounds too strict for my 4 year old. He would not do well in that environment at all. My older son probably would have done fine. I would not want my son to miss out on recess because he is working on his time management skills.
Post by downtoearth on Sept 26, 2014 11:55:27 GMT -5
I don't think I'd be mad now, but when my first was 4, I might have been. When my first was 3 and started at a Montessori public school, I think I didn't realize how studious or rigorous Montessori really is. It looked like fun chaos from my perspective at first, but as I learned more, I realized it really is more rigid than most play-based preK/kindergartens. So now, I wouldn't be upset. But when it was my first and I hadn't seen the long-term benefits that Montessori provide, I would have been. Does that make sense?
As long as it's not missing recess every day, he's only there half day, so I wouldn't worry.
I would be upset but I'm not a fan of Montessori anyway. I'd want my kid going outside every day along with the other kids and not to be excluded/punished/however you choose to define it. Time management skills?! You've gotta be kidding me.
This is where I'm at.
But then, I tend to believe that most 3/4 yr olds can only sit still & follow directions for short bursts of time anyway...
Is that normal for Montessori? I don't know anything about that approach. However, I wouldn't be happy about recess being used as punishment that young. If a kid isn't paying attention and then doesn't get to run off some energy and get fresh air, I can't imagine their behavior would get any better.
If this is how Montessori always is though I guess I wouldn't be mad.
It wouldn't occur to me to be upset about this or to blame the teacher for the child's choice not to work. It sounds like he understood that he was expected to get three things done before recess and that he chose not to. Working through recess seems perfectly reasonable to me.
As for the notion that outside play should never be taken away, kids need to run, fresh air is important, etc. I'm having trouble getting on board. He missed a day or two of recess, he wasn't locked in a dungeon without sunlight.
Post by cinnamoncox on Sept 26, 2014 13:49:23 GMT -5
I can't get past "managing his time better" when talking about a 4 year old, honestly. Good luck. I would try to see if she has any suggestions. Are all the other 4 year olds in his class managing their time well but for him?
I don't think that recess should be taken away as punishment, but I don't disagree with him having a consequence for not getting his work done. I'm wondering exactly what the 3 goals are - are they hard to reach? are other kids having trouble with them?
I assume she means 3 stations. The typical work cycle for Montessori is 3 hours. Each station can be as simple as pouring water from a pitcher into glasses, sorting shapes, or picking up cotton balls with tongs. Some take longer than others, but most would take an adult a matter of minutes, obviously quite a bit longer for a kid.
I don't think that recess should be taken away as punishment, but I don't disagree with him having a consequence for not getting his work done. I'm wondering exactly what the 3 goals are - are they hard to reach? are other kids having trouble with them?
I assume she means 3 stations. The typical work cycle for Montessori is 3 hours. Each station can be as simple as pouring water from a pitcher into glasses, sorting shapes, or picking up cotton balls with tongs. Some take longer than others, but most would take an adult a matter of minutes, obviously quite a bit longer for a kid.
I just wasn't sure if there was a certain goal he had to accomplish at each station vs just participating in it.