Post by cinnamoncox on Oct 15, 2014 6:20:09 GMT -5
I couldn't figure out from the story, it is another very young and hardly experienced nurse like the last woman? I'm obviously not a nurse, so maybe this is off base, but I don't think I'd want to care for an Ebola patient with so little experience in critical care, never mind not having proper protocols. Seems like a job for the more experienced? But what do I know. I mean this as no disrespect to newer nurses, it just seems a really solid team with proper knowledge and experience should be involved when dealing with things like Ebola. I hope they make full recovery.
These accounts are causing quite a stir in the ER staff. nurses not willing to care for someone who presents Ebola like symptoms. Of course flu can present with the same basic symptoms so as we head into flu season this should get fun.
I would also really like to know if these were nurses that treated him when he presented in the ER or when he was hospitalized. I would think all workers who came in contact with him in the ER should have been quarantined.
These accounts are causing quite a stir in the ER staff. nurses not willing to care for someone who presents Ebola like symptoms. Of course flu can present with the same basic symptoms so as we head into flu season this should get fun.
Ack This is part of the story I hadn't really considered (maybe wouldn't let my head go there). My gosh, the aftermath on this should be interesting. Sorry Michelle.
Post by orangeblossom on Oct 15, 2014 6:48:23 GMT -5
At this point, I really wish hey would treat it as any other communicable disease outbreak from a reporting standpoint.
All of this intense reporting is adding to the hysteria, IMO. Yes, in a outbreak you will give updated numbers, but it's not always this detailed.
The hospital was ill-prepared, and nothing against the hospital, as most would be, and Dr. Frieden was right, in that they should immediately sent a team to the hospital.
Hopefully, going forward things will improve, since with the tea they were sending.
It's not a surprise that there's a second case, controlling you average germ in the hospital is hard, something like this where you're not used to the protective gear and/or it's not thep proper gear leaves you open to breaks and infections.
I would also really like to know if these were nurses that treated him when he presented in the ER or when he was hospitalized. I would think all workers who came in contact with him in the ER should have been quarantined.
The first nurse cares for him in the ICU unit, and had only been a certified ICU nurse for two months. She's been a nurse for four years.
Post by jeaniebueller on Oct 15, 2014 6:52:57 GMT -5
Honestly, I feel better knowing that the nurses may have been infected when he came into the ER and that the hospital didn't have appropriate protocols instead of these nurses being infected when there were appropriate protocols, KWIM? Its obvious the hospital fucked this up in a huge way. Poor nurses. Just terrible. Still no sign that any of his family members have been infected?
In a couple of articles it says that nurses said there was inadequate protective equipment and they were not trained on how to don and doff it properly.
Yes, I read the nurses union said they were told to wrap medical tape on exposed areas.
I get being scared, but to refuse to treat patients with Ebola like symptoms (ie, a fever- at least that seems to be the line some are drawing) is not OK with me. What if cops and firefighters were like "nope" for 9/11? Some professions have more risk - I don't think you should be able to elect which parts of your job to do when shit gets tough. Did people act this way about aids when we thought it was more easily transmitted than we do now?
All of that being said, they deserve better training and support. I hope all hospitals make this a priority.
Yep. My mom is a nurse and worked in a hospital setting in the 80's, and told me that nurses were terrified of AIDS. Many refused to work with AIDS patients, and she knew many nurses who left hospital work for something like a job at a doctor's office just to avoid being around AIDS.
OK I heard the workers at this hospital had their skin exposed while dealing with this patient. WTF?
Say what now? Come again?
Yes. Skin exposed while dude was projectile vomiting. This is why I am just not worried. The medical staff in the West African hospitals have proven if proper precautions are taken health officials can safely work with patients. I am going to go ahead and try to give the hospital the benefit of the doubt here and believe they had exposed skin the first time around , after he told them he was just in Liberia and the message wasn't communicated.
These accounts are causing quite a stir in the ER staff. nurses not willing to care for someone who presents Ebola like symptoms. Of course flu can present with the same basic symptoms so as we head into flu season this should get fun.
I get being scared, but to refuse to treat patients with Ebola like symptoms (ie, a fever- at least that seems to be the line some are drawing) is not OK with me. What if cops and firefighters were like "nope" for 9/11? Some professions have more risk - I don't think you should be able to elect which parts of your job to do when shit gets tough.
Did people act this way about aids when we thought it was more easily transmitted than we do now?
All of that being said, they deserve better training and support. I hope all hospitals make this a priority.
I think the fact they aren't being properly trained and supported is what is making them not want to treat them. If there were real protocols and not just hey wrap medical tape around you, it'd be less understandable. It would be like having fire fighters respond to fires without water, I suppose.
And yes, watch We Were Here. Documentary on AIDS in early 80's. Aka gay cancer. Some hospitals were volunteer nurses because no one wanted to work in the AIDS ward. Most were lesbians, according to the film. They banded together. So this is nothing new. Deadly scary disease and no protection
And the mortality rate for Ebola has risen to 70% from 60% at the start of this :/
I get being scared, but to refuse to treat patients with Ebola like symptoms (ie, a fever- at least that seems to be the line some are drawing) is not OK with me. What if cops and firefighters were like "nope" for 9/11? Some professions have more risk - I don't think you should be able to elect which parts of your job to do when shit gets tough.
Did people act this way about aids when we thought it was more easily transmitted than we do now?
All of that being said, they deserve better training and support. I hope all hospitals make this a priority.
I think the fact they aren't being properly trained and supported is what is making them not want to treat them. If there were real protocols and not just hey wrap medical tape around you, it'd be less understandable. It would be like having fire fighters respond to fires without water, I suppose.
And yes, watch We Were Here. Documentary on AIDS in early 80's. Aka gay cancer. Some hospitals were volunteer nurses because no one wanted to work in the AIDS ward. Most were lesbians, according to the film. They banded together. So this is nothing new. Deadly scary disease and no protection
And the mortality rate for Ebola has risen to 70% from 60% at the start of this :/
This makes sense however I am all about self-preservation. If I were a nurse I would be on the phone with the CDC myself finding out what I need to do.
I get being scared, but to refuse to treat patients with Ebola like symptoms (ie, a fever- at least that seems to be the line some are drawing) is not OK with me. What if cops and firefighters were like "nope" for 9/11? Some professions have more risk - I don't think you should be able to elect which parts of your job to do when shit gets tough.
Did people act this way about aids when we thought it was more easily transmitted than we do now?
All of that being said, they deserve better training and support. I hope all hospitals make this a priority.
I don't think 9/11 is a good comparison although I get your point. However, when you tell someone it is mandatory, you do cross a line in which people may begin to stop respecting their employer. A bad place to be for sure.
Also, yes, people most definitely did behave this way with HIV. Without a doubt.
I'll ask my MIL later tonight, but are nurses/doctors allowed to just say, "Yeah, not treating this guy" for anything? I know this is probably a stupid question.
Honestly, DH is a nurse. While Ebola isn't a big concern, I've always told him that I don't want him to be a hero. I'd far rather him quit his job than treat someone with a highly contageous, deadly disease. I'm ok with being a coward.
I couldn't figure out from the story, it is another very young and hardly experienced nurse like the last woman? I'm obviously not a nurse, so maybe this is off base, but I don't think I'd want to care for an Ebola patient with so little experience in critical care, never mind not having proper protocols. Seems like a job for the more experienced? But what do I know. I mean this as no disrespect to newer nurses, it just seems a really solid team with proper knowledge and experience should be involved when dealing with things like Ebola. I hope they make full recovery.
Eh, I think it's equally arguable that new nurses are freshly trained, cognizant of the probationary nature of their employment, eager to impress... and that more experienced nurses might even get complacent about these things. Neither is a given. If we had nurses here experienced in ebola containment specifically, that would be a different story.
Honestly, DH is a nurse. While Ebola isn't a big concern, I've always told him that I don't want him to be a hero. I'd far rather him quit his job than treat someone with a highly contageous, deadly disease. I'm ok with being a coward.
ETA: for those caring for the sick, not for those in the general public.
I am going to just have to disagree here. People not following proper protocol dealing with these patients are the ones getting sick, not everyone. They can contain this virus.
I couldn't figure out from the story, it is another very young and hardly experienced nurse like the last woman? I'm obviously not a nurse, so maybe this is off base, but I don't think I'd want to care for an Ebola patient with so little experience in critical care, never mind not having proper protocols. Seems like a job for the more experienced? But what do I know. I mean this as no disrespect to newer nurses, it just seems a really solid team with proper knowledge and experience should be involved when dealing with things like Ebola. I hope they make full recovery.
Eh, I think it's equally arguable that new nurses are freshly trained, cognizant of the probationary nature of their employment, eager to impress... and that more experienced nurses might even get complacent about these things. Neither is a given. If we had nurses here experienced in ebola containment specifically, that would be a different story.
I do see what you're saying, and no one can gain experience without actual hands on work, but since very few people in United States are trained or accustomed to treating Ebola and the proper procedures, I am just surprised. But I guess if hospitals are handing out one page leaflets and calling it a day, expectations can't be very high.
Like, I've been doing my job three years, and while I'm good at it and quite comfortable, I would still want a more experienced agent if I were dealing with a $30 mil house, know what I mean? There's nothing to compare this too, just working it out in my head.
They have stated repeatedly the protocol, but no one is understanding what that actually means.... Gown, gloves, mask, and shield. Maybe boot covers if it will be extremely messy. That leaves a lot of exposed skin, and that is per the CDC. Nurses are not getting biohazard suits, which is what everybody keeps picturing. Some hospitals may go above and beyond, but obviously not all.
Well, I'm a nurse and so far have just seen a handout. So, we're prepared I guess!
Eta: on our news they interviewed one of the infectious disease nurses from our hospital and she said we are absolutely prepared. :/
All we've gotten are links to the cdc guidelines.
I just don't understand how we deal with contact isolation precautions ALL THE TIME and don't contract the actual illness. Why is this virus so different? I think all of the unknowns are what makes it scary, that and the 70% death rate.
I'll ask my MIL later tonight, but are nurses/doctors allowed to just say, "Yeah, not treating this guy" for anything? I know this is probably a stupid question.
I believe that every hospital probably has that policy...you either treat the patient ormyou quit/are fired. It's just a tough stance to take when you want to retain the staff you have and maintain a good relationship with them. We are asking for volunteers at my hospital. Not sure how that will go but that's where we start.
There are mumblings from the hospitalists about treatment teams which IMO is a good option if it doesn't become more widespread than an isolated case here or there.
Based on what I've been reading I'm just going to avoid all health care settings for the next six months or so unless I'm dying. That might include the dentist if the hysteria persists.
I mean, they sent people in hazmat suits onto a plane when a woman who had been in SOUTH AFRICA had airsickness.
I have zero interest in being treated like a threat to public health and I can't change my travel history or plans.
Ok over the weekend, here in Boston, they landed a plane from the Eremites at Logan (I'm not clear on whether we were the planes destination, or if it stopped here in account of the issue) because five passengers had flu symptoms. And people with hazmat suits boarded and removed said passengers. And brought them to area hospitals.
None of the passengers had been to any west African countries, but they responded out of an abundance of caution.
It's good t be cautious, but it's going to cost tons of money, I can't even imagine if they get their shit straight and actually follow protocols. In any suspected case whatsoever.
They have stated repeatedly the protocol, but no one is understanding what that actually means.... Gown, gloves, mask, and shield. Maybe boot covers if it will be extremely messy. That leaves a lot of exposed skin, and that is per the CDC. Nurses are not getting biohazard suits, which is what everybody keeps picturing. Some hospitals may go above and beyond, but obviously not all.
And this is crazy to me because where it says boot covers "if it'll be extremely messy". I mean, can't the patient be laying there, not messy, then suddenly vomit? How can they know when suiting up in advance if it'll be messy. Why aren't they covering every single part, as a matter of course?
Apparently there were 70 care givers of Duncan at the hospital. I don't think I saw half that many people with my c/s. It can't be that hard to set a limited team on pts and put them in full hazmat suits. What did they do at Emory? The fact that no one got sick from bringing those people back to the US says to me there is a way to contain this, this hospital is just doing a terrible job of it.
That said, if I'm not a health care worker or don't need to be in a hospital I'm not worried about being in Dallas.