i would classify a forced hand or blow job rape. that is how it is reported in rape committed to a woman.
I would too. I assume that's what she did or maybe she forced herself on him. Also rape. But why would he let her do that?? Why remain silent? Why not push her off? I guess he was so in the moment he couldn't? It's a really weird story, you have to admit. I feel bad for him though. I'm sure he wasn't expecting something like that to happen.
If this were a woman, would you be asking those same questions?
i would classify a forced hand or blow job rape. that is how it is reported in rape committed to a woman.
I would too. I assume that's what she did or maybe she forced herself on him. Also rape. But why would he let her do that?? Why remain silent? Why not push her off? I guess he was so in the moment he couldn't? It's a really weird story, you have to admit. I feel bad for him though. I'm sure he wasn't expecting something like that to happen.
Why didn't she yell for help? Why didn't she carry mace? Why was she wearing such a short skirt?
And maybe he was too ashamed to yell because this was an art show and a bunch people were outside. Maybe there are a million reasons why he didn't yell. Just like for women.
Major side eye to the "well why didn't he just say something" line. Like seriously. Shut up.
So what you're saying is that men can never be raped by women. Unless the woman is a linebacker, or the man is too weak and effeminate to protect himself.
No that's not what I'm saying all. I know men can be coerced and raped, often by women who have some type of power over them. Do you think it's wrong to ask the obvious question on a message board though?
Wasn't the whole POINT of his show to embody powerlessness?!
This is disgusting. Why didn't he do this ... why did he do that?
Why did SHE rape him?
How come we (society) rarely ever ask the rapists the obvious questions?
Yes this too obviously. I think most people just conclude that she is a sick individual though. There is no reason that would excuse what she did. I am curious about why no one around listening stopped her though.
why didnt the lobster in the tree that got beat up that wawa referenced call the whole thing off? performance art is something that not many understand. myself included.
but you are still victim blaming
The only analogy I can come up with that makes sense to me is that people who are into this kind of art see it as their job - maybe even their calling. How many times do you think somebody has been raped at work and never said a thing because they didn't want to lose their job? Same idea. This performance was more important to him than protecting himself. This is not a decision I can personal relate to, but I can at least kinda sorta get it by imagining that it was a job I deeply needed to keep or something. Kinda.
Post by barcelonagirl on Dec 3, 2014 12:28:42 GMT -5
What if someone came in and punched him. The article implied that he was down for physical contact. What's the difference between a punch and a caress? Rape is different, but I'm having issues with this one and I don't think it's victim shaming...
Why? Especially in a case like this where the rapist's name is never mentioned, or possibly even known? I guess I don't understand why, taking this case as an example, Shia's possible pain and victimization is equivalent to the emotional state of the faceless woman who may or may not have raped him?
This particular case is confusing to me because it seems like he has no interest in identifying her or pursuing charges. Is that correct? But, there also seems to be witnesses, or at least people that saw him (and possibly her) right after the fact, doing something suspicious enough to be told to leave.
My statement meant to be general and NOT specific to this particular case, because this case is ..... weird. It was not meant to imply that his pain and victimization is equivalent to her own emotional state (I don't think they would be), but that we are to believe his pain and victimization just because he said so. And, that is genderless; I don't not believe him because I don't think men can't be victims. I don't know, at this point, if I believe him or not - I think I do. I mean, it's certainly possible.
Don't misunderstand me, I appreciate that victims' allegations are taken more seriously than they historically have been. But, the writer of this article didn't use words like "possible" and "may or may not have", this faceless woman has already been tried and found guilty (so, no harm done to her because she is faceless, I know). It was just an observation I made when reading this article.
What if someone came in and punched him. The article implied that he was down for physical contact. What's the difference between a punch and a caress? Rape is different, but I'm having issues with this one and I don't think it's victim shaming...
well then that would be assault? I don't understand the question.
What if someone came in and punched him. The article implied that he was down for physical contact. What's the difference between a punch and a caress? Rape is different, but I'm having issues with this one and I don't think it's victim shaming...
well then that would be assault? I don't understand the question.
Only if Shia claimed it was. That was the first thought in my mind some s&m bond age shit where dude gets off on being smacked. I guess I go to hitting automatically but doesn't everyone lol
I'm not excusing the fact that this lady crossed a line and what she did was wrong, but I still think sitting in a room, inviting strangers to come in and "do whatever they want" with you is extremely odd.
Post by Velar Fricative on Dec 3, 2014 12:34:48 GMT -5
Huh? People get raped even while fighting back. This woman could have been an American Gladiator for all we know, but even if she wasn't, I would expect that a man being raped by a woman might not be comfortable with the idea of assaulting the woman in this kind of "he said, she said" situation. He might not have thought anyone would believe him given what's been going on with him anyway and if she came out of there with a black eye and bloodied, I can only imagine what would have happened at that point. Somehow I don't think Shia saying she was raping him would go over too well with the crowd.
Also, "do anything you want to me" shouldn't (I hope) include sex that you didn't specifically consent to. That's still rape.
I have no idea whether Shia is telling the truth or not, but just some thoughts pertaining to the comments in this thread.
What if someone came in and punched him. The article implied that he was down for physical contact. What's the difference between a punch and a caress? Rape is different, but I'm having issues with this one and I don't think it's victim shaming...
there are haunted houses that you can go and they will hit you, spit on you, etc. if they rape you, you didnt consent to that.
Actually, from the consent forms, that might be in question if it did come up.
The Castro story with the three trapped women who became his sex slaves who escaped is fucking weird. THAT DOESNT MEAN IT DIDNT HAPPEN.
Humans are depraved and they do fucking awful shit to each other all the time. "Weirdness" should never mean a crime didn't happen. We don't talk this way about any other crime story, especially the god awfulness that happens to women at the hands of men on the regular.
He had a bag over his head. I can see the rape progressing pretty far along before he realized that it wasn't right. All the woman had to do was take down his pants. Who's to say she didn't use oral sex? I can also see him being surprised if his body was betraying him* at that particular moment and not realizing right away what was happening because THERE WAS A BAG ON HIS HEAD.
*based on anecdotal evidence of women having orgasms during rape
I think the fact that the boyfriend was standing at the door is enough for me to understand why he didn't leave while it was happening. It wasn't just the woman there.
Perhaps she threatened him. Maybe she had a weapon. Maybe she just said "If you don't go through with this I will tell everyone YOU raped ME and ruined your career." Not sure about other states, but in my state one of the ways rape is defined is sexual intercourse by forcible compulsion.
Further, sexual intercourse, in addition to its general meaning, includes intercourse per os (mouth) or per anus, with some penetration however slight. Forcible compulsion is compulsion by use of physical, intellectual, moral, emotional or psychological force, either express or implied.
Post by barcelonagirl on Dec 3, 2014 12:46:55 GMT -5
No one thought that he would have been touched inappropriately before the performance? Sex and violence were where my mind went when I heard of the whole thing. I wonder what the insurance requirement were...
I think the fact that the boyfriend was standing at the door is enough for me to understand why he didn't leave while it was happening. It wasn't just the woman there.
I don't buy performance art as a valid excuse not to engage in self preservation. There. I may be a horrible person.
Valid excuses include: age, mental status, other physical or mental impairment
I mean...I don't disagree. *zips up my flame suit just in case* I don't GET performance art on any level. I knew enough art majors in college who did it, and never once was it something that spoke to me, or made sense to me or seemed worthwhile. It's generally think it's the result stupid preening self important no talent hacks needing to feel special in a public venue.
There are exceptions. But I think it's a dumb fucking reason to do damn near anything. But nobody is making me do it - and his reasons are what they are. Nobody thinks this isn't a weird story....but there's no "but" implied in that. Shia is a weirdo. His performance art was weird. Committing to performance art on that level is fucking beyond weird. And this bitch raped him. These are all true statements. Saying, "Ok, so he was raped, but this whole story is fucking weird" implies that the weird somehow mitigates the rape.
It doesn't. That's why people are getting pissy with lcap and co.
This thread is why victims do not come forward. We don't need your blame, when we blame ourselves enough. All of these questions - the why's - are what victims ask themselves over and over again. I can tell you, from experience, we don't know the answers any more than you ever will.
I don't mean to "like" this, but yes, I agree with you.
Because that is what people do -- they don't do anything.
People don't stop fights in the street where one or more people are getting assaulted by another person or group. People don't stop family members from abusing another family member. People don't like to get involved, and then there's the mental disconnect that goes on when someone is in shock, either from witnessing something traumatic or experiencing something traumatic, themselves.
Also, from what is written, it doesn't seem like people were watching what was happening to him at that particular time, or knew exactly what was happening.
I don't know if this is really true. I stopped some dude from beating up on his gf once. I was driving down the street and saw them fighting and then saw him hit her. When you're in the moment, your adrenaline can compel you to act in ways that might seem dangerous after the fact.
This is story is confusing though because I'm not sure how you can confirm something after the fact as a eye witness? Don't you have to see or hear it happening in the moment?
Well, you weren't in line at the exhibit that day.
It's also ridiculous to say the only reason he didn't fight her off was because he was committed to his art on some bizarre non understandable level. You don't even have to go there to understand why he wouldn't say something.