superduper, I don't think you realize the burden you are shifting to your children with there choices.
My dad is very, very careful with money. We did not take vacations as a child (except to visit family out of state) and NEVER ate out at restaurants (closest we came was carry out pizza once a month). My dad to this day talks about how he wishes he could have taken me to Disneyland.
However, he paid off his mortgage 12 years early and is now living debt free. In his early 30s he was financially devastated from an ugly divorce but he's managed to claw his way out and now I am not worried about him being financially okay in retirement.
That, in my opinion, is the greatest gift you can give your children. Better than any crappy vacation or plastic Christmas present they will get this year.
I also learned a ton from him and am on my way to making smart financial decisions based on his leadership. You are teaching your kids that you don't have to work for what they want- you feel ENTITLED to a vacation so, although you haven't EARNED one, you are taking it anyway.
Look, I appreciate that you all are so passionate about debt, this is why I ask questions on this page. But there are certain things that we are just unwilling to cut. Yes, we could probably pay off our debt quicker than 3 years if I sold my car, if we cut back on Christmas and if we didn't go on vacation, but we have made the decision that we don't want to have to give up those things. If push came to shove and our survival was hinged on that money, then yeah, we would have to make that decision, but right now, we have chosen to keep those things as i
superduper, I don't think you realize the burden you are shifting to your children with there choices.
My dad is very, very careful with money. We did not take vacations as a child (except to visit family out of state) and NEVER ate out at restaurants (closest we came was carry out pizza once a month). My dad to this day talks about how he wishes he could have taken me to Disneyland.
However, he paid off his mortgage 12 years early and is now living debt free. In his early 30s he was financially devastated from an ugly divorce but he's managed to claw his way out and now I am not worried about him being financially okay in retirement.
That, in my opinion, is the greatest gift you can give your children. Better than any crappy vacation or plastic Christmas present they will get this year.
I also learned a ton from him and am on my way to making smart financial decisions based on his leadership. You are teaching your kids that you don't have to work for what they want- you feel ENTITLED to a vacation so, although you haven't EARNED one, you are taking it anyway.
Smh.
This, this, this.
I'm very worried about where my mom will end up and what kind of mess she will leave me. Honestly, I plan to just tell the bank to deal with it themselves. Or hopefully she'll get married and it'll be even easier.
My dad, on the other hand, has no debt, a house payment I can afford while we sell the house, and set up a trust.
Post by dr.girlfriend on Dec 11, 2014 14:47:30 GMT -5
I don't want to pile on, but the constant refrain of "I don't want to..." and "I realize I should but..." and "I'm not willing to give up..." is pretty notable. For someone who is $85k in debt (much of it high interest) to say, "Worst comes to worse, IF we get into financial trouble..." I don't know how you can turn a blind eye to that debt and not see that as being in financial trouble NOW. Let alone the minimal retirement thing...are your kids going to remember the $100 LEGO set you gave them for Christmas 2014 when they're supporting you because otherwise you'd be eating cat food in retirement? What kind of lessons are you teaching them about "needs" versus "wants" and responsible spending?
superduper, I don't think you realize the burden you are shifting to your children with there choices.
I don't disagree with this general concept, but this level of frugality seems to have come at a cost if he is still regretting the Disneyland thing 20 years later. I mean, I don't think the options here are vacations every year and time share or NEVER taking the kids anywhere.
OP, why can't you go on vacation once every 3 - 4 years?
No, he isn't saying he wishes he had taken us on a vacation he couldn't afford at the time- what kind of a lesson would that be? What he says he wishes he could have afforded to take us when we were young. Big difference.
To be honest I am not sure of the purpose of the OP. We have all had this exact same conversation with this OP before. People say-wtf you have consumer debt at 18%, you but new cars, timeshare etc. you can't afford it.
OP - but Im not willing to cut vacations(2 per year!), my timeshares, our Christmas etc. and I'm going to buy a house with no money down.
It's not worth the discussion. We all spin our wheels. And then the people do what they are going to do.
And this is not just directed at the OPer but I am not sure the purpose of a lot of people's MM posts. People post, I am going to TTC. I have $800 in an Efund is that enough? We say no, and two months later, they are pregnant. Or people with credit card debt buy boats. And then everyone acts all surprise and defensive whenMMers tell them it's wasn't smart. I feel like people know what they are doing is stupid but they are hoping that MM says it's ok so they can avoid that pit in their stomach knowing that when they retire they are going to have to live in their kids' basement.
So I ask OP, why did you post your original post? What are you looking for? Because there is a ton of great advice in this thread, but you seem unwilling to tak any of it. So what do you want?
No, he isn't saying he wishes he had taken us on a vacation he couldn't afford at the time- what kind of a lesson would that be? What he says he wishes he could have afforded to take us when we were young. Big difference.
You know your situation best. I don't know if the choice was truly poor house through retirement/death or Disneyland. Presumably that early payment of the mortgage could have been put off for 6 months (to "only" 11.5 years early) to take you to Disneyland once and would not have impacted his retirement and your current peace of mind that much.
I just think that your post was laying it on a bit thick - there is a HUGE grey area between what OP is doing and how to get out of it, which does not necessarily mean she has to go to the lengths your dad did. And again, paying off the mortgage only a decade early would not be some awful lesson to have taught you.
But that's exactly the point! He didn't drop $2k on a trip to Florida and saved $12k in mortgage payments. So in essence that vacation would have cost him $12k, not $2k, in the long run. I agree this is extreme, but the OP is in some extreme financial straits .
To be honest I am not sure of the purpose of the OP. We have all had this exact same conversation with this OP before. People say-wtf you have consumer debt at 18%, you but new cars, timeshare etc. you can't afford it.
OP - but Im not willing to cut vacations(2 per year!), my timeshares, our Christmas etc. and I'm going to buy a house with no money down.
It's not worth the discussion. We all spin our wheels. And then the people do what they are going to do.
And this is not just directed at the OPer but I am not sure the purpose of a lot of people's MM posts. People post, I am going to TTC. I have $800 in an Efund is that enough? We say no, and two months later, they are pregnant. Or people with credit card debt buy boats. And then everyone acts all surprise and defensive whenMMers tell them it's wasn't smart. I feel like people know what they are doing is stupid but they are hoping that MM says it's ok so they can avoid that pit in their stomach knowing that when they retire they are going to have to live in their kids' basement.
So I ask OP, why did you post your original post? What are you looking for? Because there is a ton of great advice in this thread, but you seem unwilling to tak any of it. So what do you want?
I thought her post was asking what order she should tackle their debt in, and giving all the extra info because the board (almost) always asks for it. It seems that she has set $ each month to put toward debts and is looking for guidance on where to direct that $ to get the most benefit.
To be honest I am not sure of the purpose of the OP. We have all had this exact same conversation with this OP before. People say-wtf you have consumer debt at 18%, you but new cars, timeshare etc. you can't afford it.
OP - but Im not willing to cut vacations(2 per year!), my timeshares, our Christmas etc. and I'm going to buy a house with no money down.
It's not worth the discussion. We all spin our wheels. And then the people do what they are going to do.
And this is not just directed at the OPer but I am not sure the purpose of a lot of people's MM posts. People post, I am going to TTC. I have $800 in an Efund is that enough? We say no, and two months later, they are pregnant. Or people with credit card debt buy boats. And then everyone acts all surprise and defensive whenMMers tell them it's wasn't smart. I feel like people know what they are doing is stupid but they are hoping that MM says it's ok so they can avoid that pit in their stomach knowing that when they retire they are going to have to live in their kids' basement.
So I ask OP, why did you post your original post? What are you looking for? Because there is a ton of great advice in this thread, but you seem unwilling to tak any of it. So what do you want?
I feel like a lot of this was also directed at me so I'll answer too. With my post, I was looking for a little bit of confirmation that we're doing better but can still improve in areas X, Y, and Z. And I did get a lot of that...and I also got the expected "OMG your finances aren't perfect so you shouldn't have anything nice." We are in a much better place than when I started lurking and posted my first budget but we are still a work in progress and I was looking for some confirmation of what we are doing right and what still needs work. I took a lot of the advice given to heart and we will re-adjust our plans to get our Efund funded sooner and bigger than our original plan. But I am also going to balance having a life with having an ideal financial situation based.
I also posted because, as a lurker, I like to see budgets that are similar to mine in some aspect so that I can use any tips or advice given to that poster in my own life. I hope that someone else was able to gain from my post without having to put themselves out there for criticism.
To be honest I am not sure of the purpose of the OP. We have all had this exact same conversation with this OP before. People say-wtf you have consumer debt at 18%, you but new cars, timeshare etc. you can't afford it.
OP - but Im not willing to cut vacations(2 per year!), my timeshares, our Christmas etc. and I'm going to buy a house with no money down.
It's not worth the discussion. We all spin our wheels. And then the people do what they are going to do.
And this is not just directed at the OPer but I am not sure the purpose of a lot of people's MM posts. People post, I am going to TTC. I have $800 in an Efund is that enough? We say no, and two months later, they are pregnant. Or people with credit card debt buy boats. And then everyone acts all surprise and defensive whenMMers tell them it's wasn't smart. I feel like people know what they are doing is stupid but they are hoping that MM says it's ok so they can avoid that pit in their stomach knowing that when they retire they are going to have to live in their kids' basement.
So I ask OP, why did you post your original post? What are you looking for? Because there is a ton of great advice in this thread, but you seem unwilling to tak any of it. So what do you want?
I feel like a lot of this was also directed at me so I'll answer too. With my post, I was looking for a little bit of confirmation that we're doing better but can still improve in areas X, Y, and Z. And I did get a lot of that...and I also got the expected "OMG your finances aren't perfect so you shouldn't have anything nice." We are in a much better place than when I started lurking and posted my first budget but we are still a work in progress and I was looking for some confirmation of what we are doing right and what still needs work. I took a lot of the advice given to heart and we will re-adjust our plans to get our Efund funded sooner and bigger than our original plan. But I am also going to balance having a life with having an ideal financial situation based.
I also posted because, as a lurker, I like to see budgets that are similar to mine in some aspect so that I can use any tips or advice given to that poster in my own life. I hope that someone else was able to gain from my post without having to put themselves out there for criticism
Well the TTC this was not directed at you. I was just lurking then but It comes from years ago when someone asked if others felt they had enough saved to try try to conceive . Everyone wholeheartedly waid they would wait a year or so to save a littl. Op was defensive and was pregnant within a few months. Whatever. But why post the question?
i take issue with your balancing "having a life". I see having a life as things such as the ability to pay for my kid to take a swim class, to occasionally go on a date with my husband, maybe buy a new sweater sometimes without worrying and blowing the budget. You see it as buying a 15k boat when you have credit card debt. a boat should never be bought on credit. You Buy things you need on credit- schooling, houses, cars. If you want a boat you should save for it, after fully funding retirement and your kids college. I hope your 9 year old understands that you thought a 15k boat was more important than putting that monthly payment into a college account for him over the life of the loan when you tell him in9 years you saved nothing for his schooling.
I feel like a lot of this was also directed at me so I'll answer too. With my post, I was looking for a little bit of confirmation that we're doing better but can still improve in areas X, Y, and Z. And I did get a lot of that...and I also got the expected "OMG your finances aren't perfect so you shouldn't have anything nice." We are in a much better place than when I started lurking and posted my first budget but we are still a work in progress and I was looking for some confirmation of what we are doing right and what still needs work. I took a lot of the advice given to heart and we will re-adjust our plans to get our Efund funded sooner and bigger than our original plan. But I am also going to balance having a life with having an ideal financial situation based.
I also posted because, as a lurker, I like to see budgets that are similar to mine in some aspect so that I can use any tips or advice given to that poster in my own life. I hope that someone else was able to gain from my post without having to put themselves out there for criticism
Well the TTC this was not directed at you. I was just lurking then but It comes from years ago when someone asked if others felt they had enough saved to try try to conceive . Everyone wholeheartedly waid they would wait a year or so to save a littl. Op was defensive and was pregnant within a few months. Whatever. But why post the question?
i take issue with your balancing "having a life". I see having a life as things such as the ability to pay for my kid to take a swim class, to occasionally go on a date with my husband, maybe buy a new sweater sometimes without worrying and blowing the budget. You see it as buying a 15k boat when you have credit card debt. a boat should never be bought on credit. You Buy things you need on credit- schooling, houses, cars. If you want a boat you should save for it, after fully funding retirement and your kids college. I hope your 9 year old understands that you thought a 15k boat was more important than putting that monthly payment into a college account for him over the life of the loan when you tell him in9 years you saved nothing for his schooling.
We don't have credit card debt. We cash flow for my husband's college out of our pockets each semester. We're working quickly on getting ourselves out of the messes we created when we didn't know better. Your reading comprehension might be better if you weren't looking so far down your nose. I'm not sure wtf it is about my financial position that has you so riled up but I'm guessing that it has more to do with you than me.
Super, have you ever done the value based financial planning exercise in "Smart Couples Finish Rich"?
That really helped us switch from a focus on tangibles and distracting stuff to spending and saving / investing in a way that is in line with our values.
Its actually a fun discussion to have, regardless of the link to financial planning.
For example, our #1 shared value of security helped us really focus on investing even more for our future, and cut out stuff like extravagant birthday / holiday gifts, maid service, and at least cut back on shoes and clothes for me. It gave us a tangible set of goals to focus on that were less "save for retirement" (yawn) and more "create a secure future with no money worries by saving for retirement" (maybe not thrilling but focused).