Look, I fully accept that I am different from 90% of the board in that I grew up in an inner-city neighborhood. I was never allowed to go further than the end of my street unsupervised. I live in a "safe" neighborhood now, where I laugh at people getting up in arms about people knocking on their doors after dark, but AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I imagine that I will want to make sure I know where my kids are at all times, even if they're "unsupervised".
My husband and I grew up in the city too, as did some PPs upthread. The general consensus seems to be that city kids gain this independence faster, as they have to walk or take public transport to school instead of being driven.
I just dont understand willingly giving up the benefits of allowing your kids independence (there are proven psychlogical and developmental benefits to be gained when kids know they're on their own) for the one in a million shot that you might prevent a kidnapping. Never mind that kids are so much more likely to be hurt by people they know and trust than a stranger. It's just so illogical it boggles the mind.
I am not trying to start a fight about this. Yes, I was an independent kid, I took the bus to and from middle and high school. I am not afraid of my kid being kidnapped either, to be honest. All I am saying is, right now, I can't imagine not knowing where my kid is at all times. But she's 2. Maybe that will change when she's 6 or 8 or 10. This has nothing to do with fear of her getting kidnapped or hurt.
I feel like if I called 911 and said I saw 2 kids walking alone - the operator would say 'and?' And when I had nothing add - the response time would be 20-39 minutes. After the gunshots or heart attack or 3 car pile up or drug deal or what have you. I think the article said 4? Police cruisers. Seriously? And on tV, it's always one cop going into an abandoned building to chase 5 bad guys.
Also, I grew up in a very abusive situation and had 5 calls to CPS that I/my school personally made, and 1 that my sister made. CPS made multiple home visits and did virtually nothing to help us, which I'm still bitter about. They interviewed us in our bedroom with our parents one room away, which was totally inappropriate and intimidating. I'd much rather have been interviewed at school. And in my sister's later case I did a phone interview while away at college, to no avail.
kershnic, I think even just receiving services may have helped. Although, when the seventh grader was removed he was placed with his father, and by all accounts was doing much better under his care.
Over my 11 year tenure in City Schools, I called CPS 3 times and not once did they take my report (I observed physical abuse, one of my kids was kicked out of his house, and the case I mentioned above). I just find it strange that in the same state as the case in the OP there is such a range of response.
For me, this is less about whether kids should walk to a park alone and more about should a 10 year old be left in charge of a six year old. I think there's a difference between playing outsidein the immediate neighborhood and sending them off to walk a mile away. That's a pretty significant distance. Of course, I have a playground one block over, so that's an easy opinion for me to have.
ETA: I feel like I need a disclaimer here that I don't think CPS should have been called.
kershnic, I think even just receiving services may have helped. Although, when the seventh grader was removed he was placed with his father, and by all accounts was doing much better under his care.
Over my 11 year tenure in City Schools, I called CPS 3 times and not once did they take my report (I observed physical abuse, one of my kids was kicked out of his house, and the case I mentioned above). I just find it strange that in the same state as the case in the OP there is such a range of response.
Yeah, that's bizarre. I've either called in or been the supervisor over the person who called probably 20+ times and basically the only ones that were not accepted as investigations were the few that I didn't want to be accepted.
I feel like if I called 911 and said I saw 2 kids walking alone - the operator would say 'and?' And when I had nothing add - the response time would be 20-39 minutes. After the gunshots or heart attack or 3 car pile up or drug deal or what have you. I think the article said 4? Police cruisers. Seriously? And on tV, it's always one cop going into an abandoned building to chase 5 bad guys.
LOL, this is totally normal, IME, in this area. One car pulled over usually has 2 cruisers, when I was in a car accident 2 years ago there were 4.
I feel like if I called 911 and said I saw 2 kids walking alone - the operator would say 'and?' And when I had nothing add - the response time would be 20-39 minutes. After the gunshots or heart attack or 3 car pile up or drug deal or what have you. I think the article said 4? Police cruisers. Seriously? And on tV, it's always one cop going into an abandoned building to chase 5 bad guys.
LOL, this is totally normal, IME, in this area. One car pulled over usually has 2 cruisers, when I was in a car accident 2 years ago there were 4.
This must be an incredibly safe area or a very well funded police dept.
Post by chickens987 on Jan 16, 2015 10:04:10 GMT -5
I will also add that this cold case has recently been in the news locally again: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon_sisters and it's entirely possible that something like that can affect people's reactions to these kinds of situations.
I let an 11 year old walk my 3 year old to and from school every day. It's only half a block, but they've survived so far. Fortunately, it's not in the kind of neighbourhood where people are going to call the cops on them for walking on the sidewalk.
I think it's weird to have a 10 year old watch a 6 year old.
I think this is so child/family dependent.
I can think of tons of scenarios/personalities where a 10 year old couldn't or shouldn't watch a 6 year old. But I am equally positive that in some families it would be fine.
I'm realizing my experiences are a bit unique. I went to an in-home daycare as a child and once I started kindergarten, I joined the group of kids who walked with the DCP's 10-year-old daughter to school, just less than one mile away. Seemed totally normal to me, thus it's my frame of reference. I have a picture somewhere of me, my friend (same age), DCP's son (one year older) and the daughter all heading out. At the end of the school day, we'd all meet up at the edge of the playground and walk back to DCP's house.
I think it's weird to have a 10 year old watch a 6 year old.
I think it is weird to blanket decide a 10 year can't watch a 6 year old. This is so specific to the children. I trust my 9 year old to watch his sister quite a bit. I think he could easily get her to a destination a mile away.
Of course she is um spirited and would not trust her not to be a pain in his ass at the park and wander off. Most of her friends I would send with DS no question
I will also add that this cold case has recently been in the news locally again: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon_sisters and it's entirely possible that something like that can affect people's reactions to these kinds of situations.
And there's those two kids missing in Germantown, too, though the mother is suspected.
This is my county and I would let my DS1 walk by himself when he is ten with no problem. The route that was posted is not one I would probably encourage my kids to take though, it's not a very kid friendly route and there are a ton of alternatives parks. I also am not sure if DS2 will go with DS1 until he is a little older, it will depend on his personality.
I remember walking to the library with my sister when I was four and she was eight. We had to walk over a long bridge and my sister used to threaten to throw me in. I told my mom later in life and she was like hmmm, maybe not my best parenting move.
I think it's weird to have a 10 year old watch a 6 year old.
I think it is weird to blanket decide a 10 year can't watch a 6 year old. This is so specific to the children. I trust my 9 year old to watch his sister quite a bit. I think he could easily get her to a destination a mile away.
Of course she is um spirited and would not trust her not to be a pain in his ass at the park and wander off. Most of her friends I would send with DS no question
It is not the walking as much as sending them off to the play ground by themselves. I don't approve of that. I think there are too many situations that could come up, and it is asking a lot of the 10 year old to handle a younger sibling that whole time.
I think something else to consider in the "Can a 10 year old watch a 6 year old issue" is what if the 10 year old is the one who has an incident - gets hurt or something a mile from home. It's not just a question of whether the 10 year old can handle the responsibility of the 6 year old.
Post by chickens987 on Jan 16, 2015 10:46:06 GMT -5
It's about context, people. Come on y'all who think someone will call CPS on yours kids walking to/from school. Your kid will have a backpack, be near a school, etc. There's no reason to assume they're going somewhere they're not supposed to be.
If I saw these kids, without backpacks, nowhere near a school, I'd see them and think "why the hell are these kids walking alone on Georgia avenue? Where could they be going? What are they doing here?" Because, I am sorry, it is not common to see kids walking alone IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA.
**disclaimer, I said in my very first post I wouldn't call the cops**
It's about context, people. Come on y'all who think someone will call CPS on yours kids walking to/from school. Your kid will have a backpack, be near a school, etc. There's no reason to assume they're going somewhere they're not supposed to be.
If I saw these kids, without backpacks, nowhere near a school, I'd see them and think "why the hell are these kids walking alone on Georgia avenue? Where could they be going? What are they doing here?" Because, I am sorry, it is not common to see kids walking alone IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA.
**disclaimer, I said in my very first post I wouldn't call the cops**
I see what you're saying, chickens987. I think it could be a factor of the "if you see something, say something" post 9/11 campaign, which seems much more widespread in the DC area than in other parts of the country. People are busy and might not have the time to stop and ask the kids what is going on, and then potentially be on the hook for followup "babysitting," so maybe a call is easier/safer if they're driving. And there are a ton of lawyers in the DC area so maybe more people are covering their own asses.
There was a street view of the area in question posted in the CEP thread yesterday (the one is this thread isn't working for me) that showed about 50 pedestrians in one intersection, so I'm doubting that it's so unusual to see pedestrians around. I've been to silver spring a few times and I recall people walking all over the place.
There was a street view of the area in question posted in the CEP thread yesterday (the one is this thread isn't working for me) that showed about 50 pedestrians in one intersection, so I'm doubting that it's so unusual to see pedestrians around. I've been to silver spring a few times and I recall people walking all over the place.
Where Ellsworth crosses Georgia (across from Discovery), yes, there are often lots of pedestrians (more in the summer, when that picture appears to have been taken, and on weekdays). Ellsworth is a pedestrian walkway. West of Colesville, where I assume the kids were based on the news reports, it's a very different story.
I think it's weird to have a 10 year old watch a 6 year old.
It doesn't seem weird to me at all. I have a few 10-year-old neighbors and they're all awesome with DD (6). I will leave DD with one of them at the playground sometimes while I do my farmers' market shopping, knowing they're not going to run off anywhere. If I actually trusted the drivers in my neighborhood, I'd be okay with them walking DD home from the playground, but pedestrians aren't exactly respected by drivers around here.
I'm realizing my experiences are a bit unique. I went to an in-home daycare as a child and once I started kindergarten, I joined the group of kids who walked with the DCP's 10-year-old daughter to school, just less than one mile away. Seemed totally normal to me, thus it's my frame of reference. I have a picture somewhere of me, my friend (same age), DCP's son (one year older) and the daughter all heading out. At the end of the school day, we'd all meet up at the edge of the playground and walk back to DCP's house.
This seems totally fine & normal to me too.
I also walked to kindergarten in a bunch of kids. I just looked it up on Google Maps because I don't trust kid memory- it's 0.7 miles.
I'm glad chickens987 is here to give us some sense of what the neighborhood looks like. When I first saw the story I thought there might be more to it - the parents were being confrontational, there's some cultural clash because the parents are first generation American, the neighborhood they were walking through might not be safe, etc.
Random thoughts: * I think the threshold for what lots of people consider a "safe neighborhood" is very high. It's getting better, but I know lots of people just think anything that's "in the city" is dangerous. Especially in place like DC, this gets tied up with race in very ugly ways. NOT SAYING THIS HAPPENED HERE NECESSARILY. * the heavy handed part for me is all of the follow up. Ugh. If the kids have a track record of being out on their own, maybe suggest an alternate route and leave everyone be. That said Maryland does have guidelines in place. * I definitely watched my sister (3.5 years younger) at age ten. * you bet your bottom dollar V will walk or bike to elementary school. It's right blocks. Some schools organize "walk buses" for safety.
Post by SpartanGirl on Jan 16, 2015 13:38:47 GMT -5
So our school district does not provide transportation to kids who live within a mile of school. So walking to school could be worthy of a CPS visit? That's insane.
My kids are 9 and 6 and walk to school, without adults, every day. Sometimes they meet up with friends, sometimes it's just the 2 of them. I also let them ride their bikes around the neighborhood without me. I guess I should expect a visit from CPS soon.