4. What are the advantages to Harry not having known he is special before he starts school? Disadvantages? I think it allowed him to grow up normal. I mean we all know what it's like to have children grow up in fame (I'm looking at you Bieber). I think disadvantages are that he had no practice. It's almost even different from a muggle born student. I assume that when Hermione started exhibiting magical powers her family didn't stamp it out of her and lock her under the stairs with no meals. The Dursleys not only discouraged magic, they tried to stamp it out of him. He may have been a better student being raised with some practice. I would also assume there must be some sort of magical elementary school. I mean what do all these kids go to the local public schools until age 11?
I was wondering about this same thing a few days ago. Rowling has interviewed that they either go to Muggle primary schools or are homes chooled, most being home schooled.
Post by noodleskooze on Feb 16, 2015 21:23:48 GMT -5
Just finished. I love Dumbledore in the last chapter. "The incident with you and Quirrell is a secret, so naturally everyone knows." Made the teacher in me lol.
I just joined Pottermore but DH is hogging the computer so I can't find out which house I'm in!
Side note: I get the feeling that Quirrell wasn't like this at all before his run in with Voldey. I wonder what he was like before.
I was thinking about this too! Like, has he had V living on his head for several years? Because the stuttery Quirrell isn't new this year. But V was just hanging out until he heard about the philosopher's stone?
Voldemort only went on Quirrell's head after Q failed to get the Philosopher's Stone. It is why he can shake Harry's hand without issues when they first meet.
I'm interested to know what he was like before too. He used to be the Muggle Studies teacher (per the Harry Potter Lexicon, which is a very reliable source on the books). What made him switch from that to being a Death Eater? I would be very interested to hear what happened when he met Voldemort and how he turned into the person we see in the books.
So, do these kids just stop learning things that they would learn in muggle schools? Like, you know, language and math? lol. They always seem so articulate, but I feel that I would not be in good shape if I stopped having English class at age 11.
So, do these kids just stop learning things that they would learn in muggle schools? Like, you know, language and math? lol. They always seem so articulate, but I feel that I would not be in good shape if I stopped having English class at age 11.
I was wondering the same thing the other day, at the same time I was wondering where they studied before Hogwarts (I have a lot of time to think on the drive to and from work). This doesn't seem to have much of an answer. This is an interesting article: www.overthinkingit.com/2009/09/24/hogwarts-is-a-terrible-school/
So, do these kids just stop learning things that they would learn in muggle schools? Like, you know, language and math? lol. They always seem so articulate, but I feel that I would not be in good shape if I stopped having English class at age 11.
I thought the same thing as I was reading about Harry buying school supplies. (Which is undoubtedly my fave part of the book, I <3 school supply shopping, lol.) I think they kind of work everything else into the magic classes. I mean they write tons of essays, so I'm sure those get critiqued for grammar & style. Arithmancy or whatever Hermione takes later on is math-ish. That being said, when you have magic, do you really need to know, say, computer science or muggle physics? I'm trying to think of wizarding jobs that would need that kind of thing. And I'm assuming there were some higher-level elective we never heard about because Harry et al didn't take them - the classes someone would take to be a healer/doctor, etc.
I'm rereading. I've read the whole series several times but love rereading it. JK Rowling was just brilliant in the way she connected all the books. I love this book because it's our first glimpse into Hogwarts and the beginning of Harry, Ron and Hermione's friendship. It was just simpler times. lol. Well simpler as compared to later books. I love what a vivid writer Rowling is and just how clearly I could visualize everything. I get so wrapped up in the book it's like I'm there. lol.
Like others have said, I think Harry not knowing his background was an advantage because he was able to go in without any preconceived notions. He didn't see himself as special, privileged or famous. He wasn't the boy who lived, he was Harry. Just Harry. Plus, I think it would have been much more unbearable living with the Dursleys knowing that there was this whole other life that he could be a part of and yet he was stuck on Privet Drive.
Some of my favorite parts in this book are when he goes to Diagon Alley for the first time, especially when he buys his wand, and also when he wins his first Quidditch match and when Hagrid gives him the photo album with pictures of his parents. That was the sweetest gift. Makes me all teary.
My favorite character, other than Harry, would have to be Hermione. I just love her. Probably because I relate to her the most.
In terms of houses, I always thought Gryffindor and Pottermore agrees.
So, do these kids just stop learning things that they would learn in muggle schools? Like, you know, language and math? lol. They always seem so articulate, but I feel that I would not be in good shape if I stopped having English class at age 11.
Well, they have to write essays all the time, so I assume that they get graded on grammar as well as content. I read that young children either go to muggle school or are homeschooled before they go to Hogwarts, so they learn basic math, science, muffle history. I think astronomy and arithmancy have a lot of math. Then there is history of magic, which is required. Herbology and care of magical creatures are like wizard biology.
I mean, what's the point of studying electricity or chemical reactions when you can produce light and explosions from your wand?
So, do these kids just stop learning things that they would learn in muggle schools? Like, you know, language and math? lol. They always seem so articulate, but I feel that I would not be in good shape if I stopped having English class at age 11.
I thought the same thing as I was reading about Harry buying school supplies. (Which is undoubtedly my fave part of the book, I <3 school supply shopping, lol.) I think they kind of work everything else into the magic classes. I mean they write tons of essays, so I'm sure those get critiqued for grammar & style. Arithmancy or whatever Hermione takes later on is math-ish. That being said, when you have magic, do you really need to know, say, computer science or muggle physics? I'm trying to think of wizarding jobs that would need that kind of thing. And I'm assuming there were some higher-level elective we never heard about because Harry et al didn't take them - the classes someone would take to be a healer/doctor, etc.
I think Latin classes would be helpful to allow them to figure out the meaning of spells and how to create new ones.
Post by hopecounts on Feb 17, 2015 10:21:49 GMT -5
Most of my answers have already been given so I'll just add that I am loving rereading the series. There are so many small 'easter eggs' dropped throughout the book. I love how JKR lays out the crumbs along the way leading to book 7, and builds the theme of choice/love being the greatest power/etc from the beginning.
at the very beginning of some of the books, like in HBP, when Narcissa and Bellatrix go to Snape's house
), but in SS there are times when it shifts from Harry's POV to third person omniscient, like when Ron and Hermione are watching Harry at the first quidditch game, or when they're with the troll and you hear Ron's perspective as he attacks the troll. It's interesting to see Rowling's writing style evolve as the books progress.
3. Why do you think J.K. Rowling depicts the Dursleys as being so terrible? I feel like this was almost a misstep with Rowling, because she turned them into 1-dimensional characters. Everyone else had such depth to them, but the life she gave Harry was truly horrific. The idea of a toddler growing up being constantly tormented, never being cuddled and loved, a child never having a friend or anyone on his side? And then he turns out normal? I think above everything else, this is the most over-the-top.
I almost feel like they are one dimensional because we are seeing them through Harry's eyes. He can only see them as terrible
7. The Mirror of Erised (Desire) plays an important role in the Harry’s growing understanding of his internal conflict. The inscription around the top of the mirror translates: “I show not your face but your heart’s desire.” When Harry gazes into the mirror he sees his parents and other members of his family. Dumbledore, the headmaster of the school, cautions Harry, saying that the mirror “will give neither knowledge nor truth. Men have wasted away before it, entranced by what they have seen, or been driven mad, not knowing if what it shows is real or even possible,” and he concludes by saying, “It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live.”. Harry longs for the connection to his family, something missing from his miserable childhood. How does he eventually make that connection to the past without losing sight of what is important in the present and essential to the future?
I don't think I can answer this better than anyone else has here.
Harry's ability to redirect what he wanted the most, from something from the past that couldn't be changed to something that would directly impact what was happening in that moment is really important. I think he realizes that his desire for his family will never go away, but that he also needs to fight for his present and future. Maybe he doesn't realize it on quite THAT level yeT, but I feel like he almost needed someone (Dumbledore) to give him permission to let that desire go a little bit so that he could live in the present.
I think it is a really great point that without the talk with Dumbledore about how you can't let the longing for your family distract you from other things he never would have been able to get the stone.
I've thought more about the question of Hermione joining Harry and Ron and her contrasting Hermione with Harry and Ron is something that kind of bugs me. Although Hermione is portrayed as much more capable than the other two, it still feels like it follows along stereotypical gender roles.
Hermione is the one who has all the "books and cleverness," and she ends up taking a motherly role toward the other two--cleaning up their homework, trying to make sure they stay out of trouble and her responsibility is treated as "bossiness."
I was surprised again at how little Harry knows. How weird must it be to show up and everyone has heard of you and you barely even know why. And no one knows HOW you survived!
One ... complaint? It seems ridiculous (riddikulus?) that three first years can get past a series of obstacles set by professors of magic. This was really their best work? I guess a lot of the security was tied up in how hard it would be to break into Hogwarts and then to get past Fluffy, but still!
I felt the same way! Like, "Games, really? There aren't any high security locks or pass codes or retina scans that can't be fooled by magic that you guys can use?"
Just getting to this now! I had off yesterday, so it was kind of a lazy day where I ignored my computer.
I will preface this by saying that I've read the first 4 books probably 10 times total. I've only read book 7 maybe 2-3 times. I'm excited to read the whole series for the first time in a few years. I originally read the first 4 books the summer before my sophomore year of college and after seeing the first movie, so it was 2001? 14 years ago almost? A few years later I also joined a monthly Harry Potter meetup/fan group, where we would talk about theories, and also plan events for the midnight movie releases and book releases (books 6 and 7).
1. Are you reading the series for the first time? Are you rereading? a. If you are reading for the first time, what did you think? Do you have any predictions about what will happen in the upcoming books? b. If you are rereading, did anything stick out to you this time that you may not have noticed the first time? - Not particularly, but I was trying to keep an open mind. I realized quite a while ago that the books are from Harry's perspective, although they are 3rd person narration (except the first chapter, when Harry is a baby, of course). So it can be quite biased. I also think that subtle things that have nothing to do with magic have a big impact on the series as a whole - like what if Hagrid and Ron hadn't told Harry that Slytherin was all full of evil, horrible people? What if Harry HAD held out his hand to Draco Malfoy when they were on the Hogwarts Express and tried to be friendly from the beginning?
2. What was your favorite part of the book? ETA: Diagon Alley!
3. Why do you think J.K. Rowling depicts the Dursleys as being so terrible? - I think it's an exaggeration consistent with lots of older children's books, where kids live terrible lives and dream of leaving. It also makes it a lot easier for Harry to give Hogwarts his all without feeling a bit homesick and a convenient excuse to stay over breaks!
4. What are the advantages to Harry not having known he is special before he starts school? Disadvantages? - I think this is great for kids who might imagine that they, too, are magical and can be called to Hogwarts someday! It makes it easy for a regular person reading the books to identify with Harry, who was raised in the Muggle world for all intents and purposes. And it makes Harry more grounded. It also allows Ron to play an important role by explaining a lot about how the magical world works to Harry and Hermione.
5. What is your first impression of Hogwarts School? What about it makes it seem special and different? - Honestly, it seems dangerous, lol. This would never fly in the US. The Forbidden Forest and a 3 headed dog that will eat you? Trick steps that you have to remember to skip or else you'll get stuck? Having to climb through a portrait hole to get to your common room, the location of which is secret? Hogwarts doesn't seem very ADA accessible!
6. Sometimes, the very qualities that seem to make a person disagreeable to you, as Hermione was to Harry and his friends at first, become assets to you once that person becomes you friend. What qualities did Hermione bring to the group? What does her integration into the group tell you about the nature of friendship? Why did defeating the troll turn Harry, Ron, and Hermione into best friends? - I think Hermione was trying almost "too hard" to fit in, but being so academically inclined, it was hard for others to identify with her. I also think you get hints in later books that she's friendly with the girls in their year, whom she obviously shares a dorm with, so I don't think she was friendless, although obviously she becomes close with Harry and Ron after the troll incident. I think she and Harry can identify as being outsiders from the Muggle world, while Ron and Harry both appreciate her research ability and knowledge of, let's say, magical trivia and facts.
7. The Mirror of Erised (Desire) plays an important role in the Harry’s growing understanding of his internal conflict. The inscription around the top of the mirror translates: “I show not your face but your heart’s desire.” When Harry gazes into the mirror he sees his parents and other members of his family. Dumbledore, the headmaster of the school, cautions Harry, saying that the mirror “will give neither knowledge nor truth. Men have wasted away before it, entranced by what they have seen, or been driven mad, not knowing if what it shows is real or even possible,” and he concludes by saying, “It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live.”. Harry longs for the connection to his family, something missing from his miserable childhood. How does he eventually make that connection to the past without losing sight of what is important in the present and essential to the future? - There are a lot of hints throughout the book that Harry is sort of fulfilling his magical destiny and would make his parents proud. Obviously the fact that he looks like James but has Lily's eyes help his parents "live on." The invisibility cloak allows him to both have something of his dad's and to engage in... um, the trouble-making his dad probably did at Hogwarts. The fact that Harry is in Gryffindor. The fact that Harry is talented at Quidditch.
8. Quirrell tells Harry that “There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it.” Do you agree with this? Is this the reality of the world? Or if good and evil do exist, what makes them so? Which is more important in the world - power, or good and evil? - No, I don't agree with it, but I'm a type B personality. I don't crave power or fame. Money, sure, to the extent that it can buy some kind of comfort. A world run by people without moral compasses scares the bejeesus out of me.
9. Besides Harry Potter himself, who was your favorite character in the book? Which character did you find most interesting? Why? What details did Rowling provide that made that character come alive in your mind in all his or her complexity? Did your first impressions of the character remain unaltered, or did you change your opinion of the character as the story went on? Do any of the characters remind you of someone you know? - In this book, I like McGonagall, Dumbledore and Hermione. Dumbledore, and what he knows and doesn't know and what he allows Harry to get away with and why are definitely interesting questions.
10. If the Sorting Hat were placed on your head, which house would you be? - I'd like to say Ravenclaw. I guess I can see Hufflepuff. Definitely not Gryffindor.
11. If you had to hang any quote from this book on your wall, which one would you choose? - either "The truth." Dumbledore sighed. "It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution."
I was surprised again at how little Harry knows. How weird must it be to show up and everyone has heard of you and you barely even know why. And no one knows HOW you survived!
One ... complaint? It seems ridiculous (riddikulus?) that three first years can get past a series of obstacles set by professors of magic. This was really their best work? I guess a lot of the security was tied up in how hard it would be to break into Hogwarts and then to get past Fluffy, but still!
I felt the same way! Like, "Games, really? There aren't any high security locks or pass codes or retina scans that can't be fooled by magic that you guys can use?"
It's almost set up as a heroic quest, rather than a security measure. It's designed to force someone to prove themselves worthy of receiving the stone, almost as if Dumbledore wanted Voldemort to try for it. Otherwise, why wouldn't Flamel have just kept it with him or destroyed it on his own?
I felt the same way! Like, "Games, really? There aren't any high security locks or pass codes or retina scans that can't be fooled by magic that you guys can use?"
It's almost set up as a heroic quest, rather than a security measure. It's designed to force someone to prove themselves worthy of receiving the stone, almost as if Dumbledore wanted Voldemort to try for it. Otherwise, why wouldn't Flamel have just kept it with him or destroyed it on his own?
I also did wonder where exactly it had been kept for the previous ~600 years. Flamel obviously was using it with some regularity. Why didn't Voldemort get it ~10 years before? Why wasn't it a thing that people had sought before then?
Post by rootbeerfloat on Feb 17, 2015 13:54:16 GMT -5
This is my second re-read. My favorite parts are when Hagrid shows up right at midnight and when he meets Ron and everyone else on the train. I love how he tries to understand things in the wizard world in muggle terms (like Quidditch), while Ron and Hagrid are completely befuddled.
Re: the Dursleys, I agree with the comment upthread that
As for the three being able to get past the challenges, I kind of think of Ron, Hermoine and Harry as a super group. It's like X-Men. Alone, they're incomplete, outsiders, etc. Together, their weaknesses are gone, because one covers for the other, and so on.
This is how I think of them, too. I like to think of Hermione as the brains, but it's more that she was always prepared.
So, do these kids just stop learning things that they would learn in muggle schools? Like, you know, language and math? lol. They always seem so articulate, but I feel that I would not be in good shape if I stopped having English class at age 11.
I figure they had all the basics (reading, math, etc) before they got there, but they applied this stuff in writing essays, mixing potions, and calculating, err, astronomical stuff, lol. They were being trained for wizard jobs, so they had to learn all that stuff instead.
Other characters I adore: Ron, Fred and George, and Mrs. Weasley.
I would probably be a Ravenclaw. Or Hufflepuff.
Another thing I wondered about... Harry instantly bonds with Ron, but I would've expected that he would have more in common with Hermione or Dean, kids who also grew up in Muggle families.
It's almost set up as a heroic quest, rather than a security measure. It's designed to force someone to prove themselves worthy of receiving the stone, almost as if Dumbledore wanted Voldemort to try for it. Otherwise, why wouldn't Flamel have just kept it with him or destroyed it on his own?
I also did wonder where exactly it had been kept for the previous ~600 years. Flamel obviously was using it with some regularity. Why didn't Voldemort get it ~10 years before? Why wasn't it a thing that people had sought before then?
Voldemort was living as a corporeal spirit and inhabiting the bodies of animals before Quirrell stumbled across him in the forests in Albania. He didn't have a body to try to get it with.
Harry wanting to be a Weasley is how I reconcile him ending up with Ginny. I don't like any of his girlfriends, and I like Ron and Hermione together, but Ginny is blah to me. Maybe I will appreciate her more with re-reading.
I also did wonder where exactly it had been kept for the previous ~600 years. Flamel obviously was using it with some regularity. Why didn't Voldemort get it ~10 years before? Why wasn't it a thing that people had sought before then?
Voldemort was living as a corporeal spirit and inhabiting the bodies of animals before Quirrell stumbled across him in the forests in Albania. He didn't have a body to try to get it with.
Yeah, but I mean prior to that. Like why wasn't it one of his initial plans to live forever before he was destroyed?
I know, I know, he didn't think he was in danger of being destroyed by Harry. But surely it was enticing to him, since power (and living forever) was everything to him. And if not him, some other evil wizard?
Voldemort was living as a corporeal spirit and inhabiting the bodies of animals before Quirrell stumbled across him in the forests in Albania. He didn't have a body to try to get it with.
Yeah, but I mean prior to that. Like why wasn't it one of his initial plans to live forever before he was destroyed?
I know, I know, he didn't think he was in danger of being destroyed by Harry. But surely it was enticing to him, since power (and living forever) was everything to him. And if not him, some other evil wizard?
Voldemort was living as a corporeal spirit and inhabiting the bodies of animals before Quirrell stumbled across him in the forests in Albania. He didn't have a body to try to get it with.
Yeah, but I mean prior to that. Like why wasn't it one of his initial plans to live forever before he was destroyed?
I know, I know, he didn't think he was in danger of being destroyed by Harry. But surely it was enticing to him, since power (and living forever) was everything to him. And if not him, some other evil wizard?
I'm guessing it's not a powerful enough method for Voldemort. Voldemort's focus was on power, and alchemy wouldn't be seen as a powerful enough method for him.
Voldemort was living as a corporeal spirit and inhabiting the bodies of animals before Quirrell stumbled across him in the forests in Albania. He didn't have a body to try to get it with.
Yeah, but I mean prior to that. Like why wasn't it one of his initial plans to live forever before he was destroyed?
I know, I know, he didn't think he was in danger of being destroyed by Harry. But surely it was enticing to him, since power (and living forever) was everything to him. And if not him, some other evil wizard?
You get a huge amount more info on his motivations later on, esp. in book 6. It is a good question how Flamel kept it from all evil wizards, though.
Dumbledore says something to the effect of he wouldn't want to have to depend on anyone or anything else to keep himself immortal; the Sorcerer's Stone was well known and someone could easily have tried to steal it from him. Horcruxes were much less well-known and they were also a part of himself, so keeping in theme with self-reliance. It wasn't until he was bodiless and desperate that he started to try to get the Sorcerer's Stone just to keep himself alive while he tried to regain a body.
Voldemort was living as a corporeal spirit and inhabiting the bodies of animals before Quirrell stumbled across him in the forests in Albania. He didn't have a body to try to get it with.
Yeah, but I mean prior to that. Like why wasn't it one of his initial plans to live forever before he was destroyed?
I know, I know, he didn't think he was in danger of being destroyed by Harry. But surely it was enticing to him, since power (and living forever) was everything to him. And if not him, some other evil wizard?
He didn't want to have to depend on anything else, even an inanimate object. It was a temporary measure for him, with the understanding that once it helped him regain his body, he wouldn't use it anymore.
Post by twirlermom on Feb 17, 2015 22:48:17 GMT -5
I have been super busy the past couple days. Sorry I am late.
I have reread the series multiple times. I have lost count how many times.
I love all the clues to future books buried in all throughout the books. Little mundane things that don't seem like clues are.
While I think the tasks to get to the stone were fairly simple, I liked that. I think for one selfish adult to go through it would have been more complicated. It was easy for the trio because they worked together. Individually they wouldn't have made it.
I think dumbledore is one of my favorite characters. I love all his one liners, sense of humor, and patience in teaching and letting Harry try to figure things out I his own.
A couple more thoughts - When I came across descriptions of Dudley's VCR I had to check and see when the books were written - 1997! Almost 20 years old! I had no idea it has been that long. We've gone from VCR to DVD to streaming in that time.
I also liked a lot of the foreshadowing going on - spells and objects that become important, creatures. All these little hints are so fun.
In regards to the seemingly simple tasks required to get the Sorcer's Stone - the one most important point is Dumbledore's addition of only allowing the stone to be found by someone who didn't want to use its powers - that would be a pretty rare person. So really, it wasn't as simple it seemed to get the stone, and possibly not surprising that a child would be the finder.