Post by Kcthepouchh8r on Mar 12, 2015 11:17:58 GMT -5
Eek, that's tough. I can see why they'd be weary of having one teacher handling a single child while the other is walking 11 kids (hopefully with a parent but not guaranteed). If it were my kids walking on a busy road I wouldn't want a 11:1 ratio. If your dh is home why doesn't he just go?
Post by amynumbers on Mar 12, 2015 11:18:15 GMT -5
Honest opinion? I think they are trying to dance around telling you they think he needs a smaller ratio. Two teachers and parent should be able to handle 12 kids, provided there aren't an outlying issues with any of the kids.
So I would say you need to try and decipher if they are just beating around the bush trying to raise red flags, or if they just are being lazy.
IDK - I feel like he should be able to go because you pay tuition and because he should be able to enjoy the field trip. 2 teachers should be able to handle 16 kids (assuming thats how many is in his class). I understand you not wanting to waste a day off just for a field trip. Tell the teacher you can't take a day off work and see what she says.
Post by amynumbers on Mar 12, 2015 11:22:56 GMT -5
Oh, and I agree with KC (HURRAH!) a 1:11 ratio for the rest of the kids on a field trip is no ok if someone has to be 1:1 with any kid. If a kid needs 1:1 to participate in a task, outside help has to come in.
I get that you pay tuition and your kid should be able to participate. But the teachers are telling you they need help accommodating your kid. Do you really think it's safe for one teacher to carry a tantrum ing Joey while the other teacher walks 11 kids on a street? Nope.
I also have to agree that this school doesn't sound like the best fit for Joey. You post a lot about his behavior at school. Have you had him evaluated to see if maybe there is anything you need to address before he hits kindy?
I'd just send your H w/ Mallory - younger sibling are welcome on our preschool field trips, not public K+. But you aren't even going as a chaperone, you're going just as your kid's parent.
And I'm going to kind of agree w/ the others - is this just their (bad) easy of telling you this isn't working? What have they been doing to work on this with him & you?
Yes, 2 teachers should be able to handle their 12 kids on a trip - especially just a few doors down to the library. Our kids walk further to our playground (it's across a huge parking lot).
Another thought - is it possible he'd be more likely to have a melt down if you are there? But would listen better to the teachers?
Honest opinion? I think they are trying to dance around telling you they think he needs a smaller ratio. Two teachers and parent should be able to handle 12 kids, provided there aren't an outlying issues with any of the kids.
So I would say you need to try and decipher if they are just beating around the bush trying to raise red flags, or if they just are being lazy.
I don't know if it's necessarily a red flag. I don't think it seems too developmentally inappropriate that a kid wouldn't be mature enough to handle a field trip at three. Admittedly I'm out of my element on the behavioral stuff though so I might just be talking out of my ass.
If they are telling you they can't handle walking your son across the street and back at 3, yes it's a red flag. I would send DH with him and let him enjoy the field trip with extra help or I would keep him home if your DH doesn't want to go. I would also start looking for a new school if you already haven't.
I think it's a red flag and his behavior needs to be addressed. But for this specific field trip - Since you have time to get him ready for this specific trip could you walk to the library after school a few times between now and then? So as to not prevent a melt down when he has to leave on field trip day?
Edit: posted when you did so it does seem like his behavior is being evaluated.
We're seeing some really good improvement in his behavior at home too. 3 has been a really tough age but I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
I'll probably just keep him home if I can't convince DH to go with the baby. I just have mixed feelings about it. It really seems to be the one teacher. The other doesn't seem phased by him at all. I'd rather they be conservative if they don't think they can handle him I guess.
Do you have a double stroller to keep them both contained while he crosses the street?
Post by amynumbers on Mar 12, 2015 12:23:38 GMT -5
I'd also throw out there that if you husband can't or won't handle him and a baby ever, I kind of side eye expecting a teacher to handle him and a bunch of other kids.
IDK, they keep trying to impress on you something is going on. You feel there isn't, along with others. So ok, why keep sending him someplace like that? Whatever their philosophy is is irrelevant if they are going to keep pushing this issue. Where the other boys' parents asked to attend the trip as well?
I have no idea if anything is going on with you son. But clearly his teacher does, so I guess I just feel like you either get on board, or leave. Otherwise these things just keep happening, and that isn't the experience I want for my kid.
Post by dizzycooks on Mar 12, 2015 12:26:14 GMT -5
Honestly that ratio is really good. Our preschool ratio is 1:10 so 3:11 seems very doable. That said, I would really consider a different preschool, more often for him, next year. He needs the practice and consistency that it would provide. In regards to the field trip, I think they are out of line implying you need to go or he shouldn't come. Since it's a coop are they perhaps suggesting you would change your days to make it easier for everyone? I guess if he has a melt down one of you should be prepared to go get him, but I wouldn't let the maybe of his behavior keep you from working or sending him to school. Re your husband taking both kids out, this has come up before and he needs to deal with it. He needs to practice, it's ridiculous that a father can't handle both of his kids out of the house, particularly in your situation where you are both home with them so much.
Honestly, if his teachers are having problems handling him on a daily basis, you might want to look into a school environment that is better suited to his needs.
IDK -- it's either Joey or it's the school. If it;s not him, it's them and I don't get keeping him there if it's them.
I think it's a combination of him and one of the teachers. She seems thrown a bit by the two other little boys who have similar behavior issues minus the speech problem. But I still like the school environment/philosophy more than the others in the area. And I love the other teacher. His behavior is improving with them working with him and us working with him at home. He's very attached to the place and to the kids. If he were unhappy I'd move him. But he's learning a lot and having a really good time. And the location/schedule fits our life a lot better than the other places locally.
I have given it a lot of thought, it's not something I just decided. I talked at length with the special ed director and the psychologist. They both said he's doing fine and not to worry so much. They think the issues he's having are normal for his age and abilities and don't think we need to do anything other than give him more time and keep doing what we're doing now. We were advised to give him next year to see how he does. At that point, we may send him to private K and then decide if he's ready for 1st grade in the public school or to repeat K at the public school.
I think a good thing to remember is employees of the school department are looking at your child through a very narrow lens. A kid who is able to access the curriculum is going to be of no worry to them. I'm kind of side eyeing they told you he has tantrums because he cant be understood. Tantrums are common in more global language delays for sure. A bright, very verbal well developing child with poor artic will typically reword their request another way and combine nonverbal cues to get their point across (key word being typically).
Since you have a situation where his school is demonstrating they can't trust him to transition without a meltdown I don't think asking for a private referral is that out there. At best they confirm what the school department said and perhaps have more strategies to work on his difficulties besides wait until he matures. At worst they see something more and help you get the right team to help.
Post by andrewsgal on Mar 12, 2015 13:17:23 GMT -5
There are so many red flags. Everyone here has been as nice and straightforward as possible but honestly you would rather live with your head in the sand. Fine that's your right, but the school is saying they can't deal with him so either your husband go or Joey stays home. Honestly the fact your husband doesn't think he can handle them safely is HUGE
Post by lyingliarlies on Mar 12, 2015 13:57:02 GMT -5
As for your dh, I think this is a prime time for him to get out with both kids. If J has to be carried, someone else can carry M & walk with the other children (or can he bring a carrier? I remember that you didn't like baby wearing but maybe he can?)
I am new to this board and know nothing about your past, so take this with a grain of salt.
Does your district offer pre-school where kids with special needs qualify? It sounds like your child could be eligible given the behavior and speech issues noted above. As the mother of a child with some special needs who had him in private school as long as I could, I totally get wanting to keep him there, but it truly doesn't sound like this school is a match for your son. Moving my son was the best thing I ever did. It's been the difference of 'well, the teachers are doing a great job with him' to him being with people who are actually trained and WANT to help him.
The type of behaviors you mention sound out of the norm to me, for a school to worry about handling them. The public school here has classes with 1/2 needs (ranging from very minor to severe) and 1/2 'model' kids with no iEPs. I would definitely consider looking around for a possible better fit, because this sounds stressful for both your family and probably your child if he isn't a good fit there.
I dont really have anything useful to add, but I hope you know everyone has joeys best interest in mind. Many of us have experience with pediatricians that give shitty advice, see my friends pedi who told her its cool her 23 mo old doesn't talk other than to call random people ma and say vroom. So we are just concerned. But it sounds like you have some trusted professionals keeping an eye on him.
As for your lazyass husband we all know it only gets easier the more you do it. And if the teachers are genuinely concerned for the safety of all of the kids then your h needs to go if you guys want Joey to go. The good thing is its just the library if he can't suck it up, but it might be a good first outing for your h because the teachers will be there to lend a hand. Just have him bring a stroller for M and if he needs to be can hand her off for a second and strap a screaming flailing 3 yr old into the stroller and carry her( not like I have any experience with that AT ALLLL)
Ahh 3 yr olds...tjey yell when you give a 5 min warning, and beg for 5 more min when you don't
I set a timer and pretend like it's out of my control. Ha! Well the timer says we are done so we better listen. He listens better for an inanimate object than his mother.
I dont really have anything useful to add, but I hope you know everyone has joeys best interest in mind. Many of us have experience with pediatricians that give shitty advice, see my friends pedi who told her its cool her 23 mo old doesn't talk other than to call random people ma and say vroom. So we are just concerned. But it sounds like you have some trusted professionals keeping an eye on him.
As for your lazyass husband we all know it only gets easier the more you do it. And if the teachers are genuinely concerned for the safety of all of the kids then your h needs to go if you guys want Joey to go. The good thing is its just the library if he can't suck it up, but it might be a good first outing for your h because the teachers will be there to lend a hand. Just have him bring a stroller for M and if he needs to be can hand her off for a second and strap a screaming flailing 3 yr old into the stroller and carry her( not like I have any experience with that AT ALLLL)
For real. I have a long list of people who told me everything was fine-pedi who told me since my kid could point to share interest, the school psychologist because she can pretend play with baby dolls, the slp who said she listens too well, the special education director who said she was misdiagnosed (very apparent this is untrue now), EI coordinator who said her eye contact was too good, etc etc etc. Seriously id be rich if I collected $1 from every well meaning but unqualified to diagnose person. That's why it's a personal crusade to tell people do not not pass go, do not collect $200 when they do have red flags and skip to the specialist. Sensory processing disorder occurs quite frequently in kids with high iqs.
In terms of the dh thing it would be my hill to die on that my dh could manage both kids alone. What if god forbid I was in a major car accident and needed to be hospitalized, needed major surgery or worse? He needs to manage. He's a parent too. It's hard but suck it up buttercup.
Post by amynumbers on Mar 12, 2015 21:28:47 GMT -5
Just some advice from someone who has a kid in school for a second year -- teachers talk. Uptight or not, that teacher is going to give his next teacher a full rundown.
I agree that littles, especially boys, don't need to have something diagnosable all the time. But that doesn't mean it doesn't need to be treated. Sure, maybe he will grow out of it -- but why wouldn't you do what you could to help him do that in a way where he could be getting the most out of the experience now? Especially if it's difficult for him or causing him distress?
It's a tricky line to walk -- I agree lots of people are slapping labels in any kid who deviates from a very straight and narrow line. But that doesn't mean that the therapies and supports involved aren't more helpful than "wait and see".
Lurker here, but I work as a mental health therapist in a preschool and I just wanted to give my two cents (whatever they're worth.)
I agree with a previous poster that this behavior sounds completely developmentally appropriate and I'd actually question what strategies they are using for your son for such a big change in the normal schedule. Field trips throw a lot of kids off, especially kids receiving special education services. I would hope that they are prepping all the kids well in advance and talking to them about what's going to happen, where they are going, etc...
With ALL behavior in preschool, it is the main role of a teacher to teacher. Social emotional development is the most important part of preschool, so I would ask specifically about their social emotional curriculum and "how are you teaching my child about feelings, asking for needs and wants, empathy, problem solving, calm down strategies, etc..." They should be able to answer that questions in a way that doesn't include a lot of punishment and shaming. It sounds like you have or the school has services of a SLP, psychologist, etc... I would ask to have a planning meeting with them and the classroom teachers to develop some supports (if you haven't already.) I would also listen to what those folks are telling you about normal/abnormal behavior. Often times they have a more objective view of a child than a classroom teacher. Classroom teachers can really burn out easily and it impacts how they respond to kids, specifically those kids who are a little more spirited .
I love the preschool teachers I work with, but so often I'm astonished by the developmentally inappropriate expectations they place on 3 and 4 year olds. Tantrums are developmentally appropriate, not wanting to respond to adult requests is developmentally appropriate, etc. What you described about field trips doesn't make me question anything about your son, it makes me question what the teachers are doing to support him. That's where the expectation should be placed.
I dont really have anything useful to add, but I hope you know everyone has joeys best interest in mind. Many of us have experience with pediatricians that give shitty advice, see my friends pedi who told her its cool her 23 mo old doesn't talk other than to call random people ma and say vroom. So we are just concerned. But it sounds like you have some trusted professionals keeping an eye on him.
As for your lazyass husband we all know it only gets easier the more you do it. And if the teachers are genuinely concerned for the safety of all of the kids then your h needs to go if you guys want Joey to go. The good thing is its just the library if he can't suck it up, but it might be a good first outing for your h because the teachers will be there to lend a hand. Just have him bring a stroller for M and if he needs to be can hand her off for a second and strap a screaming flailing 3 yr old into the stroller and carry her( not like I have any experience with that AT ALLLL)
For real. I have a long list of people who told me everything was fine-pedi who told me since my kid could point to share interest, the school psychologist because she can pretend play with baby dolls, the slp who said she listens too well, the special education director who said she was misdiagnosed (very apparent this is untrue now), EI coordinator who said her eye contact was too good, etc etc etc. Seriously id be rich if I collected $1 from every well meaning but unqualified to diagnose person. That's why it's a personal crusade to tell people do not not pass go, do not collect $200 when they do have red flags and skip to the specialist. Sensory processing disorder occurs quite frequently in kids with high iqs.
In terms of the dh thing it would be my hill to die on that my dh could manage both kids alone. What if god forbid I was in a major car accident and needed to be hospitalized, needed major surgery or worse? He needs to manage. He's a parent too. It's hard but suck it up buttercup.
I agree with KC here. You need an eval there is no way this is typical age appropriate behavior. You are being told what you want to hear, or hearing what you want.
As for your husband that's absolutely ridiculous.
And no of course not every behavior needs to be diagnosed or treated. Honestly I have never seen this board even say that until it comes to Joey. He throws up so many huge red flags all the time.