Resident non-Republican Ranting about Radical Ryan

[basilosaurus]

I didn't link an article, just stats from Guttmacher that break down what the states mandate.

I came over to MN for a couple posts that day, too. Unfortunately, I got banned when I trolled on 1st tri. I thought I was hilarious!

To add to the recent abortion debates, do you remember hearing about 2 reps in MI who were banned after saying the word vagina on the House floor?

[drunkpeggy]

Aug 15, 2012 17:43:57 GMT -5 Stan said:

Aug 15, 2012 14:44:04 GMT -5 drunkpeggy said:

Romney and Ryan can talk about my uterus all they want. I'm 100% comfortable in my assertion that abortion and infertility treatment will not be outlawed in this country. It's just not going to happen. The legal precedent it would present threatening other treatment options for women is what will keep abortion and things like IVF, embryo storage, etc. legal. I feel like the constant calls of "the conservatives are going to ban abortion/IVF/etc." is akin to the calls that Obama isn't a citizen or that the sky is falling.

I think a lot of people confuse what politicians' personal beliefs are versus what they can do and will do as public/legal figures. Romney/Ryan are staunch Christians who are pro-life...for them not to share their views on why they believe life is precious and should be guarded would be doing a disservice to their supporters...you wouldn't be getting the full picture of the people you may elect into office.

If anyone wants to vote based on how a politician feels towards reproduction and the value of an unborn child/fetus that is the voter's prerogative. I however am going to vote based on substantial things that can be changed...such as the economy and foreign policy and budgetary reform.

Firstly, Congressman Ryan put forward a bill that defined life as beginning at fertilization. That's not just a personal belief. That's an attempt to make it a legal belief.

It's just wrong to think that a woman's right to choose is not under assault in this country. Take Mississippi. It's a state with ONE reproductive choice clinic. www.cnn.com/2012/07/11/us/mississippi-abortion-clinic-hearing/index.html That state just passed a law that would effectively close that clinic. If H gets orders to Quantico and I want to have an abortion in VA, I get a transvaginal ultrasound. Living in CA like I do, or NJ perhaps, I might not have to worry. But I worry about women in other states.

I vote on things that can be changed too. Like my terror at forcing women to have trans vaginal ultrasounds, not eliminating the capital gain tax (making Gov. Romney's tax rate 0.82%), not eliminating medicaid or medicare, etc. Also, I don't think it's only Congressman Ryan who thinks life is precious.

I actually agree with the black and white intentions of the MS law. If I were to have an abortion your damn right I would want a doctor that is trained in OB/Gyn practices and not just any old doctor with an MD after their name. The fact that no other state in the country doesn't require a trained physician (according to the article) to perform the surgery is mind boggling. Further, I think any doctor that practices procedures at an out patient facility needs to have privileges at the nearest hospital. Continuity of care is important when emergency situations arise.

The article doesn't specify whether this is a public or private clinic. I'm curious to see if private practicing OB/Gyns perform abortions for their patients.

[drunkpeggy]

Aug 15, 2012 18:06:07 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

It's for "informed consent." Because I know if I were coming in for an abortion I think it means getting a wart removed. I'd be shocked to learn it was an embryo I was getting rid of, and that an embryo could turn into a fetus and then a baby. Shocked I tell you.

Here's more info. This stuff has actually been quietly slipping into laws for awhile, but the VA thing sparked a lot of media attention. Probably some of that b/c it's an election year, and the gov. had been pegged as a top VP pick.

www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_RFU.pdf

Do you remember P&CE on April Fool's? My costume was as a transvaginal probe. All b/c of the uproar over VA.

You roll your eyes but do you decide you have cancer after finding a bump on your body and go to the surgeon and say "slice me open, Doc!"? No. You have a battery of tests done so the doctor can assess the situation before cutting into you only to find out the bump is a spider bite.

People treat abortion procedures like it's a teeth cleaning. "Oh it's no big deal just an abortion." Putting aside all the morality arguments for a second, when you have an abortion your body is being opened up and tools are used to remove the contents of your uterus. It's surgery. I'd rather have the doctor be fully prepared going into the surgery than finding out while I'm on the table that I have a huge fibroid or scarring that's going to make the procedure more complicated than the "standard" abortion. Perform the ultrasound so my doctor can be fully prepared.

I do agree though that the forced viewing and/or description is crossing the line.

And lol how this has turned into an abortion debate like it's the only platform Romney/Ryan are running on.

[basilosaurus]

I think you missed the point of that article. What MS was requiring was admitting privileges to a local hospital. Something that's not medically necessary and was specifically intended to target this clinic, knowing that many (if not all) of their docs travel in from out of state. Just like in many other states, safely. This wasn't just mandating board certification in OB/GYN, although that's another onerous unnecessary mandate. Family docs can certainly be properly trained to provide a safe abortion. So can midwives and NPs in some states, with the same safety record. Theoretically an abortion is basic medical training, although many programs no longer teach it.

Not only is it onerous for an out of state doc to get local privileges, the lawmakers know that local hospitals are often as committed to denying abortion rights as they are.

Additionally, there's no reason the doc should follow the pt to emergency treatment. If you have an oral surgery, and something goes wrong, should that doc follow you to the ED? What about if you're having plastic surgery in a stand alone clinic, should that surgeon be required to have admitting privileges? Why are they targeting just one medical procedure, arguably one of the safest out there, and creating these hurdles if they're just trying to protect patient safety?

[basilosaurus]

Your arguments for ultrasound are specious. I'm absolutely fine with medically necessary ultrasounds. If your doc determines it's necessary, by all means, go for it with the patient's consent, but not every abortion requires it.

That's not what this is about, though. It's about the government mandating a medical procedure, with complete disregard to both patient and doctor. Additionally, it's mandating it to advocate for a specific outcome, to discourage abortion, not to make it safer.

If this is only about having tools and surgery, then why is no one campaigning to similarly regulate oral surgeons? Mine had a freaking drill in my bone. He permanently installed a foreign object in my face. But, actually, it's incredibly safe, just like abortion, so I can just say it's basically nbd, no need for intense government intervention.

[letsbeawkward]

Aug 15, 2012 19:33:56 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

That's not what this is about, though. It's about the government mandating a medical procedure, with complete disregard to both patient and doctor. Additionally, it's mandating it to advocate for a specific outcome, to discourage abortion, not to make it safer.

Exactly!

BUT they are all about keeping government small and out of our lives 8-D

[bigmamma]

Can we table social policy for a few years and focus on the economy and national security?

I am so sick of the govt saying who can fuck who, who's married and who isn't, what you can/can't do in your bedroom. STFU and focus on making sure people have a JOB so they can FEED their kids. LGBTStraight, Legal-Illegal, old young... black, white Jew Muslim... fuckin Buddhist... we ALL have to eat... even if you are going straight to hell for having an abortion.

For the record - I am a conservative and I will NOT being voting for Obama. If I have to write in Mickey fuckin Mouse I will, but I WILL vote.

Fuck the self-righteous socio-political dogma. Its on both sides and its time to get our country back to the CONSTITUTION and OFF the POPULAR SOCIAL DRIVES...

[basilosaurus]

I remember in 2010 when all the Rs were chanting jobs jobs jobs. And then I remember 2011 which saw those same people introduce more anti-choice legislation than ever before. So, it doesn't really mean much to me if people claim to focus on the economy when recent history shows us that jobs = forced ultrasound laws.

[bigmamma]

What I don't understand is why we think the Fed Govt should be making choices for SOCIAL issues.

Get the FUCK out of my life, manage roads, war and judicial practice.

When it comes to who I fuck, how I die, where my money comes from... STFU.

I am a LIBERTARIAN. I HATE that the fed govt is butting their nose in either way to LIMIT FREEDOM or "enforce" it. I wish I could articulate "enforcing" freedom better but I'll just fuck up why it annoys me and it won't make sense in text. argh...

Mickey Mouse it is.

[Jam]

Aug 16, 2012 10:33:16 GMT -5 bigmamma said:

What I don't understand is why we think the Fed Govt should be making choices for SOCIAL issues.

Get the FUCK out of my life, manage roads, war and judicial practice.

When it comes to who I fuck, how I die, where my money comes from... STFU.

I am a LIBERTARIAN. I HATE that the fed govt is butting their nose in either way to LIMIT FREEDOM or "enforce" it. I wish I could articulate "enforcing" freedom better but I'll just fuck up why it annoys me and it won't make sense in text. argh...

Mickey Mouse it is.

:Y: 