does everyone put their names on collection envelopes? I don't attend church or believe, but when I have attended with my ILs, we always put our donation in an envelope anonymously. Is that not okay since they are keeping track?
I think an envelope, wad of money, check, etc. is okay. We write a check so we can track our giving for tax return purposes.
Major side-eye to the churches that request tax returns.
ETA: I think there are subtler ways of broaching the giving issue. Our churches usually address the issue twice/year. A friend used to call it "the papal shake down" We also get a letter every quarter or so showing our giving by the week. It shows if you're on track for your annual pledge. I'm sure seeing '0' in a few columns prods people to make catch up contributions or get themselves back in the pews.
If a church demanded my tax returns, that would be the LAST time my ass sat in a pew there. My dad is a priest, has been since 1977(?). At no time in any church I have attended (either with him as the priest or someone else) has any church "demanded" money. F that noise. Encourage generous pledges? Absolutely.
Our church solicits all the time and I don't think that's a huge deal,* although my favorite was the request one week in church that we all pledge $10,000 in addition to our regular tithing, as the church handed out pledge forms on the spot. I'm sure everyone sitting there had a spare ten grand sitting around. Anyway, I would divorce my husband before I'd turn over any tax returns to any church because that's going too far IMO.
*As a non-Catholic, it took me years to acclimate to the idea of solicitations. My church never, ever asked for money, and doing so is frowned upon.
Is that a catholic thing? Ive never been asked for large sums. We do a collection plate every service but thats generally asking for a dollar here or there.
does everyone put their names on collection envelopes? I don't attend church or believe, but when I have attended with my ILs, we always put our donation in an envelope anonymously. Is that not okay since they are keeping track?
We use the labeled envelopes to get a giving statement for tax purposes (and credit for school tuition). They certainly don't require giving be that way.
does everyone put their names on collection envelopes? I don't attend church or believe, but when I have attended with my ILs, we always put our donation in an envelope anonymously. Is that not okay since they are keeping track?
Our church doesn't have envelopes. We just put cash or a check in the plate. I know our church keeps track based on the average weekly collection and every year they adjust the budget accordingly.
Our church solicits all the time and I don't think that's a huge deal,* although my favorite was the request one week in church that we all pledge $10,000 in addition to our regular tithing, as the church handed out pledge forms on the spot. I'm sure everyone sitting there had a spare ten grand sitting around. Anyway, I would divorce my husband before I'd turn over any tax returns to any church because that's going too far IMO.
*As a non-Catholic, it took me years to acclimate to the idea of solicitations. My church never, ever asked for money, and doing so is frowned upon.
Is that a catholic thing? Ive never been asked for large sums. We do a collection plate every service but thats generally asking for a dollar here or there.
It was a Philadelphia Archdiocese thing. It suddenly decided to collect a giant sum of money. IIRC it was to help fund the poorer parishes in the area although I want to say that improvements/upgrades were also at issue.
My childhood church is currently struggling financially. They can barely pay bills and there is a weekly plea to give as much as you can. I wonder if they would have benefited by asking for yearly pledges over the last few decades instead of raising money for specific things periodically.
I find it weird when people judge the things that pastors and ministers have because I grew up in and fellowship with small black churches. I would say a good half of the pastors I knew had another job. Usually jobs they had before becoming ministers and many owned small businesses so they didn't have to actually clock in everyday. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that pastors having other jobs wasn't common in other denominations. I am turned off by the helicopter owning, mansion living pastors but I feel those people are so rare there's little point in discussing them.
Our church solicits all the time and I don't think that's a huge deal,* although my favorite was the request one week in church that we all pledge $10,000 in addition to our regular tithing, as the church handed out pledge forms on the spot. I'm sure everyone sitting there had a spare ten grand sitting around. Anyway, I would divorce my husband before I'd turn over any tax returns to any church because that's going too far IMO.
*As a non-Catholic, it took me years to acclimate to the idea of solicitations. My church never, ever asked for money, and doing so is frowned upon.
Is that a catholic thing? Ive never been asked for large sums. We do a collection plate every service but thats generally asking for a dollar here or there.
My Catholic church asks for a donation for a $250 for the the grand annual (yearly) that is in addition to our weekly tithe (which all is asked is we give what we can). We have all year to get to that donation amount of 250. Fr. says "we don't have much you or I, but over 12 months we can get there". Hurrah for living in a working class community!
I think we'd laugh him out of the church if he asked for 10K a family or our tax returns.
I think we'd laugh him out of the church if he asked for 10K a family or our tax returns.
Let's just say a murmur went through the congregation as the pledge forms were being distributed and parishioners were doing the unthinkable in Catholic Church - making eye contact with one another. LOL
I think we'd laugh him out of the church if he asked for 10K a family or our tax returns.
Let's just say a murmur went through the congregation as the pledge forms were being distributed and parishioners were doing the unthinkable in Catholic Church - making eye contact with one another. LOL
Our church solicits all the time and I don't think that's a huge deal,* although my favorite was the request one week in church that we all pledge $10,000 in addition to our regular tithing, as the church handed out pledge forms on the spot. I'm sure everyone sitting there had a spare ten grand sitting around. Anyway, I would divorce my husband before I'd turn over any tax returns to any church because that's going too far IMO.
*As a non-Catholic, it took me years to acclimate to the idea of solicitations. My church never, ever asked for money, and doing so is frowned upon.
Maybe this varies by parish? That's not something I've ever experienced. Although truth be told the parish we belong to now is mainly working folks and they're far more likely to ask people to bring food to feed parishioners who are coming on a Saturday to work on the church than they are for large sums of cash.
My husband likes to give his 10% to church but I prefer to spread my (limited) dollars around to other causes that are meaningful to me and not strictly to church. It may be a reason why I don't pursue membership in a church. They don't send notices or anything but I'm sure there is some notice taken of members who don't give as much as they think they should. I even donate to a local church I rarely attend simply because they give back to our community a LOT.
Omg this is not how the church is supposed to work.
My church doesn't even hardly MENTION money from the pulpit. There's no pleas or requests or guilt tripping to tithe, there's no passing of offering plates/buckets/etc. There are two designated boxes in the back of the church and you either give or you don't. We're not a very big church but we do just fine without being gouged.
Post by sporklemotion on Jul 16, 2015 13:23:12 GMT -5
Ditto @ajl, though in my experience, membership in a synagogue often comes along with some tangible benefit. Non-members are welcome to attend as frequently as they like, but they may not get automatic seats for high holidays, bar mitzvah tutoring, etc. It can also really depend on the community-- membership at the temple where my parents spent their last years included cemetery plots, which are $$. They don't shun non-members or snatch away their thimbleful of wine during the kiddush, but if someone comes weekly, that person might get reminded of the value of membership to both the individual and community. Maybe I should be more outraged at the voting thing, but I'm not. It may be the union supporter in me (I know that's different, because union members theoretically gain $$ from joining so it's easier to assume ability to pay), but I do think that the group has a right to ask that decisions be made by those funding them. However, most synagogues I have known try to keep membership fees within reach of those who might join, because otherwise even fewer people would join. They also offer discounted membership for some groups. In an economically diverse area, it's probably harder to decide what a "reasonable" amount is.
Our church asks for 3% of income but they don't bug us about it. You can make an annual pledge each fall, you can donate whenever you feel like it or not or not donate at all and no on pressures you. We do a monthly electronic donation because it's just easier
Post by decemberwedding07 on Jul 16, 2015 15:02:12 GMT -5
I was raised Catholic and my understanding at the time was that you were considered an active member of the church only if you donated money. This was particularly important to my parents, as my sister attended Catholic school, and the tuition was different for non-Catholics, Catholics, and active Catholics. My parents had to get a letter from our church saying that we attended on a regular basis, so my dad always made his donations with a personal check, to make sure there was a record of the donation.
So, semi-related rant: Jesus ministered to the poor. He didn't ask for tax returns, he didn't gossip about people that couldn't give, there wasn't a demand for money. The clergy should be the same way. You don't become a pastor (or whatever your denomination calls it) to become wealthy. I truly believe that it is a calling and that calling comes with a simple financial life. I judge the SHIT out of any church leader who drives an expensive car, wears expensive clothes, and sends their children to private school, but stands at the pulpit and preaches about greed and envy. I do not want fund someone's lifestyle. I expect some of my tithe to support the pastor. I do not expect my tithe to fund extravagance.
Also, people should never feel that they can't afford church. If you feel the need to go, you should be able to go without feelings "less than." Churches who keep track make me angry on so many levels.
So much like. The opulent palaces...err...churches I pass in NC are certainly not hurting. I don't agree with Jesus's philosophy, but its a good one, better than some. I can just never get my head around rich pastors or priests, or even churches really. Its an instant fail on the most basic level as far as what Jesus was saying.
Can we talk about the churches that run businesses out of their church space? Such as coffee shops and bookstores?
It reaaaaally bothers me that a church will run a business on church grounds. I can't put my finger on why, other than it feels really money lender-esque.
Can we talk about the churches that run businesses out of their church space? Such as coffee shops and bookstores?
It reaaaaally bothers me that a church will run a business on church grounds. I can't put my finger on why, other than it feels really money lender-esque.
How do you feel about it when all proceeds go to ministries/missions outside the church?
Can we talk about the churches that run businesses out of their church space? Such as coffee shops and bookstores?
It reaaaaally bothers me that a church will run a business on church grounds. I can't put my finger on why, other than it feels really money lender-esque.
How do you feel about it when all proceeds go to ministries/missions outside the church?
I'd ask why the church couldn't raise the funds through tithing or donations.
I was raised Catholic and my understanding at the time was that you were considered an active member of the church only if you donated money. This was particularly important to my parents, as my sister attended Catholic school, and the tuition was different for non-Catholics, Catholics, and active Catholics. My parents had to get a letter from our church saying that we attended on a regular basis, so my dad always made his donations with a personal check, to make sure there was a record of the donation.
I think it may vary by congregation. My MIL just retired from working in the rectory at her church. They had a 10,000 member congregation and in order to be considered a member in good standing you needed to return your donation envelope regularly. Many people returned them empty and no questions were ever asked, it was just recorded that they do, in fact, attend mass and that's enough to be a member in good standing for school tuition and to get married there or get a letter to be a godparent.
There are a few big donors in that congregation who don't give weekly, but give a large amount once a year and turn in empty envelopes the rest of the year. There are also quite a few people who she knows of who return an empty envelope then a separate cash donation because they want their donation amount to remain anonymous. They also know there are people who give nothing. Nobody asks anything about that because they don't know the person/family's finances and consider it not their business.
Post by picksthemusic on Jul 16, 2015 16:13:31 GMT -5
I get tithing and understand churches need money to run. But if you can't tithe, you should contribute in other ways - volunteer your time and/or talents to help the church run.
I go to the Catholic Church in Beverly Hills - we've never been asked to give specific amounts, just to specific causes (earthquake relief, retired priests/nuns, catholic schools, program where families visit family members in prison, etc). They encourage FaithDirect, which is a form of recurrent online giving, but no specific amounts. They also post the weekly amount collected and the amount needed to run the church - it's typically short by tens of thousands of dollars.
How do synagogues work? I've heard you have to pay for membership and high holidays, but how does it work? Do you flash a card to get in like at Costco and have tickets for Yom Kippur, or is it all just on the honor system? Is this for all synagogues or just the popular ones on the westside of Los Angeles? Lol
Can we talk about the churches that run businesses out of their church space? Such as coffee shops and bookstores?
It reaaaaally bothers me that a church will run a business on church grounds. I can't put my finger on why, other than it feels really money lender-esque.
How do you feel about it when all proceeds go to ministries/missions outside the church?
I'd ask why the church couldn't raise the funds through tithing or donations.
Well, they can tap non-members in the community in addition to their parishioners' offerings.
A church in my home diocese has a baller sandwich and coffee shop on the premises (downtown, heavy foot traffic) that also sells religious books and music. Any person who can't pay gets a meal, plus they fund other ministries. It's cool. And their signature panini is the bomb.
Post by berrysweet on Jul 16, 2015 20:23:41 GMT -5
Coming out of perpetual lurk-dom to comment on this one, because I'm just totally blown away by what I've read so far. My father-in-law is a pastor, and I sit on our Parish Planning Council--I have never heard of any church requiring annual donations of a certain amount and/or requiring proof of income, and am just totally speechless that it seems to happen with some regularity.
The way it works at our church is that once every fiscal year, we present a "Cost of Ministry" to the congregation--this includes the actual cost of all aspects of the ministry, from keeping the lights on, to supporting outside missions, both locally and globally. Then, everyone votes on whether to increase or decrease each line item for the next year. At the end, we have an annual "Cost of Ministry" that is divided into a weekly giving target. Each week, we publish the previous week's grand total (no names or identifiers of any kind).
From the pulpit, our pastor growing up used to always say, "now we give back to God a portion of what he has first given us--our time, our talents, and our treasure." There was always a big emphasis on the fact that our offering (it's always referred to as "offering" rather than a tithe) could come in ANY of those forms, and often a combination of the three. I've also heard our local pastors talk about "equal sacrifice opposed to equal giving".
Anyway, no real closing thought here. I'm still just kind of speechless and skeeved out to hear that in some places, your tithe is a requirement for membership.