We've reached the end! No more spoiler tags are necessary since by this point everyone, veterans and new readers alike, should have reached the end. If you are reading this thread and you haven't finished the series, you are brining spoilers upon yourself.
Harry parts ways with the Dursleys for the last time in this book. Before they say good-bye for the last time, Dudley admits that he cares about Harry and thanks him for saving his soul from the Dementors. How does this make Harry feel about his life on Privet Drive?
Aunt Petunia stops to look back at Harry. “For a moment, Harry had the strangest feeling that she wanted to say something to him: She gave him an odd, tremulous look and seemed to teeter on the edge of speech, but then, with a little jerk of her head, she bustled out of the room after her husband and son.” What did you think was she considering saying to Harry?
As Harry, Ron and Hermione set off on the mission left to them by Dumbledore, to destroy the final Horcruxes, they start to question what they've been told. Did he expect them to succeed? Did he have a plan for them? Even Harry, who has never questioned Dumbledore's motives, has a period of little faith. What was your opinion of Dumbledore while reading and did your opinion change as the story progressed?
Is the quest for the Hallows really a kind of flip-side to the making of Horcruxes? Do Dumbledore and Voldemort actually share unexpectedly similar motivations?
After the Tale of the Three Brothers, Hermione says, “I think you’re right. It’s just a morality tale, it’s obvious which gift is best, which one you’d choose." The three of them spoke at the same time; Hermione said, “the Cloak,” Ron said, “the wand,” and Harry said, “the stone.” What does this say about each of them?
What do you make of Dumbledore's treatment of Harry, in terms of the "big picture" plot? Was it fair?
Do you think Harry makes the right decision in the end, when he separates the Hallows and abdicates his title as the "Master of Death"?
How does Harry change over the course of the novel, especially when compared to his actions in the previous books?
How has Neville changed since the first book? How has Draco?
Many characters lost their lives in the fight against Lord Voldemort. What death were you most saddened by? Which was a long time coming?
Were you satisfied with the epilogue? Do you suppose, 19 years later, Kreacher is still with Harry and Ginnie?
Harry parts ways with the Dursleys for the last time in this book. Before they say good-bye for the last time, Dudley admits that he cares about Harry and thanks him for saving his soul from the Dementors. How does this make Harry feel about his life on Privet Drive?
I think, while it can never make up for how he was treated, it possibly opens up the "what might have been" and maybe not everything was horrible.
Aunt Petunia stops to look back at Harry. “For a moment, Harry had the strangest feeling that she wanted to say something to him: She gave him an odd, tremulous look and seemed to teeter on the edge of speech, but then, with a little jerk of her head, she bustled out of the room after her husband and son.” What did you think was she considering saying to Harry?
I'm guessing she was, like she showed in book 6 after the dementor attack, remembering that she actually had a connection with Harry. In the end, though, she couldn't let herself unbend enough to acknowledge or allow any tender feelings.
As Harry, Ron and Hermione set off on the mission left to them by Dumbledore, to destroy the final Horcruxes, they start to question what they've been told. Did he expect them to succeed? Did he have a plan for them? Even Harry, who has never questioned Dumbledore's motives, has a period of little faith. What was your opinion of Dumbledore while reading and did your opinion change as the story progressed?
I'm torn as to what I think of Dumbledore. The best impression I can have is that he had such faith in the three that he knew they would be able to succeed. He gave them the tools they would need to enhance their own natural abilities. However, a lot of their success depended on circumstances Dumbledore never could have imagined or planned for. But again, I think this is where it shows he had great faith in them. Dumbledore knew them; Harry never did as he was told, so if Harry had been told flat-out: "Here's what's going on and here's how to solve the problem," he would have bungled it by trying something different. Dumbledore allowed for them to mature and find their own path.
Is the quest for the Hallows really a kind of flip-side to the making of Horcruxes? Do Dumbledore and Voldemort actually share unexpectedly similar motivations?
I really don't think so. I think they're all connected in that they're all attempts to avoid death, but in different ways. I think they're more parallel, and Dumbledore and Voldemort shared similar motivations in the same way many people do.
After the Tale of the Three Brothers, Hermione says, “I think you’re right. It’s just a morality tale, it’s obvious which gift is best, which one you’d choose." The three of them spoke at the same time; Hermione said, “the Cloak,” Ron said, “the wand,” and Harry said,
“the stone.” What does this say about each of them?
Harry has lost loved ones. Of course he'd want the stone Ron has never been the center of attention, the powerful one. He's always been the sidekick, so the wand would give him distinction. Hermione recognizes what the "correct" answer is.
What do you make of Dumbledore's treatment of Harry, in terms of the "big picture" plot? Was it fair?
I think Dumbledore used the situation that was available. He couldn't avoid the fact that Harry had to die, but he set it up so Harry could make that decision, rather than telling it to him flat out. I think that was very fair of him, because it gave Harry the choice.
Do you think Harry makes the right decision in the end, when he separates the Hallows and abdicates his title as the "Master of Death"?
Yes
How does Harry change over the course of the novel, especially when compared to his actions in the previous books?
In this novel, Harry and the other two really learn what it's like to be adults. They've been independent in each of the books, but in this one, they have to really learn and work on their own. Harry also learns to recognize how to focus his attention, something he's always struggled with. In most of the other books, he was always focused on someone else as the bad guy.
How has Neville changed since the first book? How has Draco?
I love Neville. He's my absolute favorite, because he goes through a stronger change than any other character. In the first book, and in most of them, he was always in the sidelines, but in this one, he picks up the mantle the three had left behind and runs with it. He becomes more of a leader than the three ever were.
Draco, on the other hand, goes backwards from being a leader to being a follower, cowed by the horror of what he's been forced to do, but unwilling to step up and refuse.
Many characters lost their lives in the fight against Lord Voldemort. What death were you most saddened by? Which was a long time coming?
The children's deaths saddened me; all the nameless students who fought. Of the named characters, Lupin and Tonks, although Lupin's was a long time coming, as the last of the old guard. I think Fred's kind of was a long-time coming also, or at least one of the Weasleys, because that family hadn't lost anyone at all.
Were you satisfied with the epilogue? Do you suppose, 19 years later, Kreacher is still with Harry and Ginnie?
I'm never satisfied with epilogues because I always want to know more. I wish she had told us if they're living in Grimauld Place and if Harry had kept Kreacher--I think he did, but I think he treated him much more humanely, and I think it would have been cruel for him to free him, as Kreacher wasn't one who wanted freedom.
One thing that's always bugged me: when they're caught by the snatchers and they're in their tent, why didn't they apparate out?? They all had wands.
Harry parts ways with the Dursleys for the last time in this book. Before they say good-bye for the last time, Dudley admits that he cares about Harry and thanks him for saving his soul from the Dementors. How does this make Harry feel about his life on Privet Drive?[/p]
Clearly it gives him pause, and I do like that Dudley was starting to think more like an adult, but even so Harry's life on Privet Drive was still pretty horrendous. A thank you isn't really going to change 17 years of bad treatment.
Aunt Petunia stops to look back at Harry. “For a moment, Harry had the strangest feeling that she wanted to say something to him: She gave him an odd, tremulous look and seemed to teeter on the edge of speech, but then, with a little jerk of her head, she bustled out of the room after her husband and son.” What did you think was she considering saying to Harry? I assume she wanted to tell him something about her life with her sister, and how much she really did love Lily at one time, and to wish him well. But, she's too set in her ways to get the words out.
As Harry, Ron and Hermione set off on the mission left to them by Dumbledore, to destroy the final Horcruxes, they start to question what they've been told. Did he expect them to succeed? Did he have a plan for them? Even Harry, who has never questioned Dumbledore's motives, has a period of little faith. What was your opinion of Dumbledore while reading and did your opinion change as the story progressed? Dumbledore was definitely one of the most interesting characters in this book, despite being dead. I do think learning about his foibles as a teen helps readers to understand his vehemence at the end of book 6 when he is describing to Harry how unusual Harry is (to be able to love despite everything that has happened to him). He knows that he was somewhat seduced by the dark arts at Harry's age, and even though he eventually grew out of it he knows what an amazing person Harry is by comparison to himself.
Is the quest for the Hallows really a kind of flip-side to the making of Horcruxes? Do Dumbledore and Voldemort actually share unexpectedly similar motivations? This never crossed my mind before reading this question. Huh. Going to have to think about it.
After the Tale of the Three Brothers, Hermione says, “I think you’re right. It’s just a morality tale, it’s obvious which gift is best, which one you’d choose." The three of them spoke at the same time; Hermione said, “the Cloak,” Ron said, “the wand,” and Harry said, “the stone.” What does this say about each of them? Well, clearly Harry has the most people he's loved and lost and would want to bring back to life. Ron has always been outshown by older brothers...maybe the wand represents his wish for power/glory? Hermione's thought about the cloak might be pure practicality.
What do you make of Dumbledore's treatment of Harry, in terms of the "big picture" plot? Was it fair? I think so. I mean, it's a lot of responsibility to lay on a 17-year-old, but Dumbledore also knew that Harry was up to the task, and his big picture vision was to get rid of Voldemort.
Do you think Harry makes the right decision in the end, when he separates the Hallows and abdicates his title as the "Master of Death"? What kind of question of this? He makes the Christ-like decision to sacrifice himself to save the wizarding world, and some question-writer asks if it was the right decision? How could it be other than the right decision?
How does Harry change over the course of the novel, especially when compared to his actions in the previous books? Well, the entire series follows a hero/quest theme, in which the hero has to grow into his/her position as someone capable of solving the big problem, and that's what Harry does in this novel now that there is nobody left to protect him. I actually think Ron's character development in this book is more interesting. But Harry does have to grow up here and make decisions with his mind and not just his heart, which is probably what the question is getting to.
How has Neville changed since the first book? How has Draco? Neville has gotten braver, and more like his parents. Draco has matured to realize that there is more to life than blindly following in his dad's footsteps.
Many characters lost their lives in the fight against Lord Voldemort. What death were you most saddened by? Which was a long time coming? Fred. Definitely Fred.
Were you satisfied with the epilogue? Do you suppose, 19 years later, Kreacher is still with Harry and Ginnie? The epilogue was interesting, but I still wondered a lot about how the characters got from point A to point B. For example, how did Harry actually convince everyone that Snape was on the right side? Did he show them the memories in the penseive? How did Draco extricate himself from all of the Death Eater community? Why did Ginny give up her career as a Quidditch player? Did Ron and Hermione have a ton of cycles of breaking up/getting back together before they finally settled down?
Don't tell Hermione, but I didn't ever wonder if Kreacher was still with Harry.
I would just like to say that I'm going to Harry Potter trivia this week!
Also, I found it a little Deus Ex Machina when they found out about the Hallows, and then figured out that THEY HAD TWO IN ThEIR POSSESSION ALREADY.
I'll be back later.
You must come back to tell us about HP trivia!
And there is something about them having 2 Hallows in their possession, yes, but...remember Dumbledore knew all about the Hallows and has been grooming them for this and is the reason they had 2, so in that sense he is their "deus."
Many characters lost their lives in the fight against Lord Voldemort. What death were you most saddened by? Which was a long time coming?
The children's deaths saddened me; all the nameless students who fought. Of the named characters, Lupin and Tonks, although Lupin's was a long time coming, as the last of the old guard. I think Fred's kind of was a long-time coming also, or at least one of the Weasleys, because that family hadn't lost anyone at all.
...
I agree that Lupin's was the most long-time-coming since he was the last of the Marauders. Even though I named Fred in my answer to this question, Lupin and Tonks were two others that I cried over.
(Yes, I cry over books. This is probably a reasonably safe place for that confession.)
Many characters lost their lives in the fight against Lord Voldemort. What death were you most saddened by? Which was a long time coming?
The children's deaths saddened me; all the nameless students who fought. Of the named characters, Lupin and Tonks, although Lupin's was a long time coming, as the last of the old guard. I think Fred's kind of was a long-time coming also, or at least one of the Weasleys, because that family hadn't lost anyone at all.
...
I agree that Lupin's was the most long-time-coming since he was the last of the Marauders. Even though I named Fred in my answer to this question, Lupin and Tonks were two others that I cried over.
(Yes, I cry over books. This is probably a reasonably safe place for that confession.)
I have books I've read 20 times that I still cry over. This is one of them.
I would just like to say that I'm going to Harry Potter trivia this week!
Also, I found it a little Deus Ex Machina when they found out about the Hallows, and then figured out that THEY HAD TWO IN ThEIR POSSESSION ALREADY.
I'll be back later.
But they had them because Dumbledore had them -- it was his quest that they inherited. Had he not planted the story for them,they never would have known about it at all.
I imagine that after Voldemort's defeat, it would have been totally safe to release Kreacher. I mean, it might have been after Harry earned his trust, but you never know. I can see Kreacher being somewhat like Dobby in that he would have been loyal to Harry, but a free elf. Of course, if Kreacher was like Winky (and most other elves) and didn't want to be released, maybe he was still part of their household. Although remember how Ron always said his mom wanted a house elf? Maybe they passed Kreacher onto Molly.
Re: Aunt Petunia. I think the first book shows that she was jealous of Lily (how their parents were so proud that Lily got into Hogwarts), and this book elaborates on that - showing Petunia's jealousy about not going, about Lily's friendship with Snape and perceived talent and popularity. We see that Petunia asks Lily to petition Dumbledore to let her into Hogwarts. So it's pretty obvious that Petunia went in the exact opposite direction by sort of rebelling from that and marrying a stodgy and unimaginative man like Vernon. I think Petunia did the least she could to take in Harry and raise him all while trying to show her disdain for Harry, his parents, and their background - but in the end, she DID raise him. Abusive as the Dursleys may have been, Petunia at least knew that her home would keep Harry safe, and that part she did. She may have felt a lot of guilt about falling out with her sister before Lily's death, as well. I think all of those feelings probably came back when she was saying goodbye to Harry, but she had been trying to suppress it for 16+ years, so...
Re: Dumbledore. I think all of these books do a good job of showing the characters as very human. Yes, most are witches and wizards, but their humanity is so, so important - magic is just a "bonus" characteristic that is neither good nor bad, just different. Voldemort's lack of humanity and rush to get rid of any human emotion, which he sees as weakness, is his greatest flaw. Many characters are undone by human emotions, like Lockheart's hubris, Wormtail's desperate desire to be seen as important, and possibly Sirius's headstrong attitude as well. So I think JKR did the right thing, and a really good job, of showing young Dumbledore's beliefs and conflicted emotions as a young man, and not just the perfect, great wizard that he was. I also enjoyed the introduction (well, re-introduction) of Aberforth to give a different opinion of Dumbledore that Harry and Doge and most of the rest of the wizarding world didn't really see.
I also think the mistakes in Dumbledore's past made him humble and helped him realize how truly extraordinary Harry was. Sure, Harry has done some dumb shit in the books, mostly related to hotheadedness disguised as bravery (kind of a Gryffindor flaw), but he does have a really good heart. Hermione is very by-the-book (literally) and Ron is very go-with-whatever-works-and-feels-good-damn-the-consequences, but Harry balances them out by doing things that might not be perfectly legal or correct, but usually turns out right - or at least helps him grow as a person. Remember when Malfoy wanted to be friends with Potter on the Hogwarts Express in year 1, and Harry just knew he was bad news? I mean, what WOULD have happened if Harry tried to be friends with Malfoy or anyone else? What WOULD have happened if he didn't know that Slytherin was "bad" and the hat sorted him there? I think because Harry was kind of forced to grow up quickly and make important decisions at a young age, Dumbledore knew that Harry was a greater wizard than he was, since Harry as capable of making the "right" choices, both due to pressure (of being the chosen one), experience, and his innate good nature.
I think he realizes that the two of them actually don't think he's a bad person, and that a lot of his pain and torment over the years had a lot more to do with Vernon's influences than how they actually feel about him. When we see Petunia being jealous of Lily in the Snape pensieve flashback he probably realizes that even more (even if it's not explored in the book).
As Harry, Ron and Hermione set off on the mission left to them by Dumbledore, to destroy the final Horcruxes, they start to question what they've been told. Did he expect them to succeed? Did he have a plan for them? Even Harry, who has never questioned Dumbledore's motives, has a period of little faith. What was your opinion of Dumbledore while reading and did your opinion change as the story progressed?
I do think Dumbledore thought they would succeed, just based on Harry's past history of success at defeating Voldemort. He knew Harry had the drive to defeat him, and that Hermione would stand by him no matter what (and that Ron would be his typical dickheaded self and throw a giant tantrum and need help to come back with this tail between his legs).
Is the quest for the Hallows really a kind of flip-side to the making of Horcruxes? Do Dumbledore and Voldemort actually share unexpectedly similar motivations?
I think younger Dumbledore's motivations to become the master of the Hallows is actually very similar to Voldemort's quest to master death. They both had kind of extreme views, and the Horcruxes/Hallows offered a means to an end. But unlike Voldemort, Dumbledore actually loved his family and was able to grow out of his youthful stupidity and become something more.
After the Tale of the Three Brothers, Hermione says, “I think you’re right. It’s just a morality tale, it’s obvious which gift is best, which one you’d choose." The three of them spoke at the same time; Hermione said, “the Cloak,” Ron said, “the wand,” and Harry said, “the stone.” What does this say about each of them?
Hermione is practical, Ron longs for the spotlight, and Harry never wanted anyone to die for him.
What do you make of Dumbledore's treatment of Harry, in terms of the "big picture" plot? Was it fair?
It was always interesting to me that Snape kind of tells him off about keeping Harry alive to "die" at the right time. In the long run, his treatment wasn't fair to Harry, but it wasn't malicious either, because he was looking at the long-term big pictures for the entire wizarding world.
Do you think Harry makes the right decision in the end, when he separates the Hallows and abdicates his title as the "Master of Death"?
Yes, Harry never wanted to be Master of Death, and he recognizes that having that much power concentrated in one person is a bad idea.
How does Harry change over the course of the novel, especially when compared to his actions in the previous books?
He finally manages to temper his impulses, especially when he's aware Voldemort is getting the wand, but instead of foolishly trying to stop it with no plan, he sets the thought aside and continues to talk to Olivander and Griphook.
How has Neville changed since the first book? How has Draco?
Neville went from being a kind of mousy kid to the leader of a rebellion. His gran was initially embarrassed by his almost-squib abilities, to being so proud of him for standing up to Voldemort. He definitely grew so much "off screen" that JKR could have written another book 7 just from his perspective: Neville Longbottom and the Hogwarts Rebellion.
I always feel like Draco started out as basically your standard pampered bully, then got in over his head and didn't actually want to be doing the things he was involved in, but had no way out. When your family is as deeply entrenched into the Death Eaters as his was, he really had no chance. He wasn't like Sirius where he had a group of friends who were on the other side and could provide support.
Many characters lost their lives in the fight against Lord Voldemort. What death were you most saddened by? Which was a long time coming?
I didn't really cry this reread, but Hedwig, Dobby, and Fred hit me the hardest on my first read. (BTW, do we know what Hermione did with Crookshanks? I'm assuming she sent him off to Australia with her parents, but I don't think it's ever been said.)
I feel like Mad Eye's death was the easiest to predict - he was always so in the thick of things, and so beaten up that it's a wonder he hadn't died long ago.
Were you satisfied with the epilogue? Do you suppose, 19 years later, Kreacher is still with Harry and Ginnie? Yes and no. It was nice to know Voldemort was really gone, and I have zero problems with Harry ending up with book Ginny (don't get me started on how watered down movie Ginny was). However, I have huge issues with Hermione ending up with fucking Ron. They were all wrong for each other and she was way too good for him. I've mentioned before that I re-write the ending in my head so Ron dies and Fred marries her instead. But I'd also have been ok with her and George, her and Krum, her and some random muggle we've never met, pretty much her and anyone except Ron.
I kind of always thought Kreacher would have passed away by the time 19 years had passed. That Harry set up a little House Elf Cemetery somewhere, and Kreacher worked for him a few more years with his new goal to be buried lovingly by Harry Potter and not having his head put on the wall of Grimauld Place.
Oh, and one thing I noticed this time around and that is bugging me is that at the beginning Hermione modifies her parent's memories so they think they have different names, don't have a daughter, and want nothing more in the world than to move to Australia. This is a memory charm, yes?
But then a couple of chapters later after they've fled the wedding and fought the Death Eaters in the café, Harry says they need to modify their memories and Ron says, "Bu I've never done a Memory Charm." To which Hermione replies, "Nor have I, but I know the theory."
Umm... you just said you modified your parents memories! I'm assuming this is just bad editing (like maybe JKR wrote this part before deciding Hermione would try to keep her parents safe), but come on.
Oh, I forgot: Tonks and Lupin pretty much ripped my heart out. Although Lupin was acting like an ass for much of the book, and it seems like Tonks, as much as she WAS an Auror and skilled at battle, was really just looking for Lupin to make sure he was okay.
Hedwig, Fred and Colin Creevy also upset me a lot.
Did anyone hear that JKR originally wanted to kill of Hagrid? Probably when he was taken into the forest by Voldy. I would kind of be okay with that.
I feel like I had much less tolerance for any kind of nonsense on this re-read. Even though I first read the books in college and not as a kid, a lot of characters got on my nerves. I never liked Hagrid or Dobby, but Lupin and Sirius (who used to be my favorite characters) are really immature, aren't they? Probably partially from having to be in hiding and not living normal lives of adults for 15+ years. Also, Ron is kind of a dick. I agree Hermione is too good for him - I like her more and more on each re-read. I never disliked her, though I used to think SPEW was annoying, but it annoyed me less this time, and of course I agree with her on principle.
I HAVE heard some people speculate that Ron and Hermione could be amicably divorced in the epilogue, though. Also, JKR sort of regretted writing it. The epilogue is cheesy, but it confirms a big fan/shipper theory (One Big Happy Weasley Family - Harry + Ginny, Ron + Hermione), and tells you where some other characters end up, like Neville.
It seems like the Hogwarts teachers are all single, though. As far as we know. I wanted Neville to end up with Luna or Hannah Abbott or something. I also almost cried when he said how proud his grandmother was of him!
Do you think Harry and Ginny live at Grimmauld place?
Harry parts ways with the Dursleys for the last time in this book. Before they say good-bye for the last time, Dudley admits that he cares about Harry and thanks him for saving his soul from the Dementors. How does this make Harry feel about his life on Privet Drive? It's easier to hate someone when you think they hate you. I think it made Harry wonder how much different his life could have been there if they had been decent to him.
Aunt Petunia stops to look back at Harry. “For a moment, Harry had the strangest feeling that she wanted to say something to him: She gave him an odd, tremulous look and seemed to teeter on the edge of speech, but then, with a little jerk of her head, she bustled out of the room after her husband and son.” What did you think was she considering saying to Harry? I hope she was going to say something along the line of, "I regret what I did but it was more because I hated my sister than I did you. You came to represent her and that's why I acted like an asshat."
As Harry, Ron and Hermione set off on the mission left to them by Dumbledore, to destroy the final Horcruxes, they start to question what they've been told. Did he expect them to succeed? Did he have a plan for them? Even Harry, who has never questioned Dumbledore's motives, has a period of little faith. What was your opinion of Dumbledore while reading and did your opinion change as the story progressed? I think Dumbledore believed in them. He did have a plan but he did what he always did, gave them just enough information to help them figure it out themselves. I personally liked Dumbledore and my opinion never really changed the more we found out about him.
Is the quest for the Hallows really a kind of flip-side to the making of Horcruxes? Do Dumbledore and Voldemort actually share unexpectedly similar motivations? I can see the parallels but I think it diverges at some point. And that is dependent upon the wizard seeking them. Horcruxes will always be evil so the individual creating them will be as well. But with the Hallows, they could be used for both altruistic and negative purposes. I don't think Dumbledore and Voldemort share similar motivations at all.
After the Tale of the Three Brothers, Hermione says, “I think you’re right. It’s just a morality tale, it’s obvious which gift is best, which one you’d choose." The three of them spoke at the same time; Hermione said, “the Cloak,” Ron said, “the wand,” and Harry said, “the stone.” What does this say about each of them? I think it's shows part of their personalities that we've seen before. In the Mirror of Erised, Harry saw his family and Ron saw himself alone. We didn't get to know what Hermione would have seen but I think she's always been a bit of a standout because of her intelligence. With the cloak, she chooses anonymity. Ron, by choosing the Wand, is still choosing to make himself the most important of anyone he knows. And Harry is still choosing his family with the stone.
What do you make of Dumbledore's treatment of Harry, in terms of the "big picture" plot? Was it fair? I've always wondered if Dumbledore would have invested as much time into Neville as he did with Harry. I also think that Dumbledore saw a lot of himself in Harry.
Do you think Harry makes the right decision in the end, when he separates the Hallows and abdicates his title as the "Master of Death"? Yes. No one can ever truly be "Master of Death."
How does Harry change over the course of the novel, especially when compared to his actions in the previous books? He grows up. And I think he realizes that adults/teachers/authority figures are fallible. They make mistakes. Part of the problem that he faces in this book is the dissolution of hero worship he felt for Dumbledore. It causes Harry a lot of angst until he learns to accept it.
How has Neville changed since the first book? How has Draco? Neville learns to believe in himself and his magic. Considering that no one in his life had any faith in him growing up and in school, this is huge. I think that Draco learns a similar lesson to Harry. His parents made mistakes and he saw the consequences of their actions.
Many characters lost their lives in the fight against Lord Voldemort. What death were you most saddened by? Which was a long time coming? I'm trying to think of my initial reactions but I can't remember. Lupin and Tonks make me sad now. Hedwig too. Dobby. They all make me sad now. When I first read the book, I sucked it all in and felt like everything was flying by. I couldn't quite absorb the impact then. Which was a long time coming? Bellatrix. I cheered.
Were you satisfied with the epilogue? Do you suppose, 19 years later, Kreacher is still with Harry and Ginnie? I was satisfied with it. It was a day in the life but I got to see that it was normal. Well, as normal as the Wizarding World can be. It was proof that you can live through something completely horrific and live without it consuming your life. We needed to see that. As much as I want Kreacher to be with Harry and Ginnie, I don't think he is. I've always had the impression that he was old so I think he lived his final years with them. BUT (big but) his head isn't on the wall on a plaque. He's buried as a respected member of the family.
Oh, and one thing I noticed this time around and that is bugging me is that at the beginning Hermione modifies her parent's memories so they think they have different names, don't have a daughter, and want nothing more in the world than to move to Australia. This is a memory charm, yes?
But then a couple of chapters later after they've fled the wedding and fought the Death Eaters in the café, Harry says they need to modify their memories and Ron says, "Bu I've never done a Memory Charm." To which Hermione replies, "Nor have I, but I know the theory."
Umm... you just said you modified your parents memories! I'm assuming this is just bad editing (like maybe JKR wrote this part before deciding Hermione would try to keep her parents safe), but come on.
This one has always bugged me, too. I guess you can't get perfect editing every time.
Oh, and one thing I noticed this time around and that is bugging me is that at the beginning Hermione modifies her parent's memories so they think they have different names, don't have a daughter, and want nothing more in the world than to move to Australia. This is a memory charm, yes?
But then a couple of chapters later after they've fled the wedding and fought the Death Eaters in the café, Harry says they need to modify their memories and Ron says, "Bu I've never done a Memory Charm." To which Hermione replies, "Nor have I, but I know the theory."
Umm... you just said you modified your parents memories! I'm assuming this is just bad editing (like maybe JKR wrote this part before deciding Hermione would try to keep her parents safe), but come on.
This one has always bugged me, too. I guess you can't get perfect editing every time.
I wonder if it was a different type of spell. She wanted to be able to lift it from her parents. With the death eaters, it would have to be permanent.
This one has always bugged me, too. I guess you can't get perfect editing every time.
I wonder if it was a different type of spell. She wanted to be able to lift it from her parents. With the death eaters, it would have to be permanent.
I was wondering that too. With her parents, she made them "forget" they had a daughter and think their names were something else. With the scene on Tottenham Court Road she had to erase several minutes worth of action, completely.
I went Harry Potter trivia last night and came in 6th, but 3 teams tied for 2nd, so I was kind of 4th. We got 34 points, 5th place got 35 points, the teams tied for second got 36 points, and the winner got 38 points. Not too bad. My husband was 0 help because it's been so long since he's read the books and he's only read them once (amateur).
I'm really glad I just did a re-read because without I never would have remembered the answer to questions like "give one fake name that Harry, Ron and Hermione gave to the snatchers in HPDH."
I wanted Neville to end up with Luna or Hannah Abbott or something. I also almost cried when he said how proud his grandmother was of him!
In the interviews I read with JKR afterward, Neville did marry Hannah Abbot and they live above the Three Broomsticks which she now owns/operates.
And Neville and Luna did date for a while but she married Rolf Scamander.
And ... yes. I am obsessed with HP. I own it.
It was the Leaky Cauldron
I love that Luna ended up with someone from outside the series. I realize that the wizarding community in the UK is pretty small, but everyone seems to meet their SO at Hogwarts and then get married young. I like that she got married later.
I am always a bit torn over Dumbledore's treatment of Harry. I agree with a PP who said that it's very interesting that Snape gave Dumbledore hell for basically grooming Harry to be killed, just because of our thoughts of Snape as "bad" and Dumbledore as "good." I never knew how I felt about what Dumbledore set Harry up for ... and I always wondered, did he know that Harry wouldn't really have to die? I think he said in King's Cross at the end that he thought that would be the case, but in true Dumbledore style, he didn't commit to an answer.
I am always a bit torn over Dumbledore's treatment of Harry. I agree with a PP who said that it's very interesting that Snape gave Dumbledore hell for basically grooming Harry to be killed, just because of our thoughts of Snape as "bad" and Dumbledore as "good." I never knew how I felt about what Dumbledore set Harry up for ... and I always wondered, did he know that Harry wouldn't really have to die? I think he said in King's Cross at the end that he thought that would be the case, but in true Dumbledore style, he didn't commit to an answer.
I don't think he knew for sure that Harry wouldn't die. He said many times that this kind of magic (7 horcruxes) was a really unstudied thing and that a lot of what he believed was not certain. But, he had studied enough about death and Voldemort to have a good idea, which turned ou to be right.
I also think in the end he would have done the same thing even if he knew Harry would die. He loved Harry, yes, but he also recognized that there are things worth dying for.
I am always a bit torn over Dumbledore's treatment of Harry. I agree with a PP who said that it's very interesting that Snape gave Dumbledore hell for basically grooming Harry to be killed, just because of our thoughts of Snape as "bad" and Dumbledore as "good." I never knew how I felt about what Dumbledore set Harry up for ... and I always wondered, did he know that Harry wouldn't really have to die? I think he said in King's Cross at the end that he thought that would be the case, but in true Dumbledore style, he didn't commit to an answer.
I don't think he knew for sure that Harry wouldn't die. He said many times that this kind of magic (7 horcruxes) was a really unstudied thing and that a lot of what he believed was not certain. But, he had studied enough about death and Voldemort to have a good idea, which turned ou to be right.
I also think in the end he would have done the same thing even if he knew Harry would die. He loved Harry, yes, but he also recognized that there are things worth dying for.
I agree that he had a good idea of what would happen, but wasn't completely sure.
This also feeds back into Dumbledore's younger days, where his motto was "for the greater good". He did care about Harry, but if he had to die to destroy the horcrux, then it would be worth it.
I don't think he knew for sure that Harry wouldn't die. He said many times that this kind of magic (7 horcruxes) was a really unstudied thing and that a lot of what he believed was not certain. But, he had studied enough about death and Voldemort to have a good idea, which turned ou to be right.
I also think in the end he would have done the same thing even if he knew Harry would die. He loved Harry, yes, but he also recognized that there are things worth dying for.
I agree that he had a good idea of what would happen, but wasn't completely sure.
This also feeds back into Dumbledore's younger days, where his motto was "for the greater good". He did care about Harry, but if he had to die to destroy the horcrux, then it would be worth it.
I don't think he knew for sure that Harry wouldn't die. He said many times that this kind of magic (7 horcruxes) was a really unstudied thing and that a lot of what he believed was not certain. But, he had studied enough about death and Voldemort to have a good idea, which turned ou to be right.
I also think in the end he would have done the same thing even if he knew Harry would die. He loved Harry, yes, but he also recognized that there are things worth dying for.
I agree that he had a good idea of what would happen, but wasn't completely sure.
This also feeds back into Dumbledore's younger days, where his motto was "for the greater good". He did care about Harry, but if he had to die to destroy the horcrux, then it would be worth it.
I think he also realized that Harry would realize at he had to do and then make the decision on his OWN - for the greater good. Because, again, Harry had some of Dumbledore's qualities, but was even greater in a way.
I am always a bit torn over Dumbledore's treatment of Harry. I agree with a PP who said that it's very interesting that Snape gave Dumbledore hell for basically grooming Harry to be killed, just because of our thoughts of Snape as "bad" and Dumbledore as "good." I never knew how I felt about what Dumbledore set Harry up for ... and I always wondered, did he know that Harry wouldn't really have to die? I think he said in King's Cross at the end that he thought that would be the case, but in true Dumbledore style, he didn't commit to an answer.
I don't know if he groomed Harry to die so much as he groomed Harry to possibly survive. Dumbledore didn't make Harry the Chosen one, Voldemort did. Voldemort set Harry on that path; Dumbledore just guided and prepared him.
I dont think Dumbledore knew for a fact he wouldn't really die, but maybe he was aware of the circumstances in which that might be the case.
Harry parts ways with the Dursleys for the last time in this book. Before they say good-bye for the last time, Dudley admits that he cares about Harry and thanks him for saving his soul from the Dementors. How does this make Harry feel about his life on Privet Drive?
- I don't think it cancels out all the bad, but I think it does make him realize that his relationship with his step brother has improved to something better than mutual hate. Maybe something like mutual respect (although not nearly that positive!).
Aunt Petunia stops to look back at Harry. “For a moment, Harry had the strangest feeling that she wanted to say something to him: She gave him an odd, tremulous look and seemed to teeter on the edge of speech, but then, with a little jerk of her head, she bustled out of the room after her husband and son.” What did you think was she considering saying to Harry?
- I think she was just going to wish him good luck. She, like Dudley, personally understands the danger Harry is in having been personally effected by it (the death of her sister). While he is the a reminder of the world that rejected her, and she probably doesn't care if she never sees him again, she does't hate him do much as to want him dead.
As Harry, Ron and Hermione set off on the mission left to them by Dumbledore, to destroy the final Horcruxes, they start to question what they've been told. Did he expect them to succeed? Did he have a plan for them? Even Harry, who has never questioned Dumbledore's motives, has a period of little faith. What was your opinion of Dumbledore while reading and did your opinion change as the story progressed?
- I was a bit annoyed with Dumbledore, but I do think he intended to give Harry more information. I believe he was blindsided by Malfoy's attack. As we learn that Dumbledore is arrogant regarding his personal intelligence and abilities, he probably expected to know when Malfoy would make his real attempt. Knowing when he would be killed, he would have given Harry more information. His bequethings were a just-in-case insurance policy, but given his fierce protectiveness of the students, I doubt he truly expected to be killed at a time that was not part of his grand plan.
Is the quest for the Hallows really a kind of flip-side to the making of Horcruxes? Do Dumbledore and Voldemort actually share unexpectedly similar motivations?
- I've always seen them both as a quest for immortality, and ultimately, power. One route just happened to be inherently evil.
After the Tale of the Three Brothers, Hermione says, “I think you’re right. It’s just a morality tale, it’s obvious which gift is best, which one you’d choose." The three of them spoke at the same time; Hermione said, “the Cloak,” Ron said, “the wand,” and Harry said, “the stone.” What does this say about each of them?
- I feel this really points out both their strengths and failings. Harry can't let go of the past but he is also confident enough to not need extra "powers". Ron wants to be the powerful protector, but he's not smart enough to recognize the cost of having a target on your back. Hermione doesn't think outside the box (she gives the right answer), but she's also smart enough to recognize the right answer.
What do you make of Dumbledore's treatment of Harry, in terms of the "big picture" plot? Was it fair?
- I think it is was wise of Dumbledore to let Harry learn that he had to die, and to let him make that choice. What would have been unfair is telling Harry he would have to die, and forcing Harry to live with that knowledge and dread.
Do you think Harry makes the right decision in the end, when he separates the Hallows and abdicates his title as the "Master of Death"?
- Yes. With the loss of the stone and wand, Harry prevents future wizards from falling victim to them. By keeping the only cloak he takes the "correct" path, where he does not need to master Death, but instead only stand on the side lines and continue peacefully through life, not fearing Death. As goes the moral of the story.
How does Harry change over the course of the novel, especially when compared to his actions in the previous books?
- I think the biggest thing is that he doesn't try to do everything on his own. He learns he needs help. In most of the previous books it's Harry alone vs Bad Guy, somehow his friends end up locked in another room. He always seems to think that he has to do it himself, keeping everyone else safe and apart. In the final book he learns that, while ultimately he must play an important role in Voldemort's destruction, he can trust others and that he doesn't have to do everything himself; he delegates Nagini's death to Neville, he trusts Ron and Hermione with the diadem, he accepts help from Neville and the DA.
How has Neville changed since the first book? How has Draco?
- Neville has obviously gained a huge amount of confidence, it's truly an amazing transformation. He just needed a cause to fight for and he stepped up to take the lead like the Gryfindor he is. - Draco on the other hand has lost almost all his confidence. Since the 6th book you can just watch it seeping away. He becomes a terrified, husk of a bully. Even though he was always a coward, he always hid it with his arrogance. Now, like his parents, he is full of self doubt, questioning the beliefs he's been raised with.
Many characters lost their lives in the fight against Lord Voldemort. What death were you most saddened by? Which was a long time coming?
- The combination of Tonks and Lupin. The thought of their poor, orphaned son is heartbreaking. Collin Creevy really hit me hard too. - I expected a Weasley to be killed. As others said, they were the only family not to lose someone.
Were you satisfied with the epilogue? Do you suppose, 19 years later, Kreacher is still with Harry and Ginnie?
- I kind of hated the epilogue. So neatly tied up with the fairy tale marriages, the kids named after dead loved ones, Malfoy vs Potter 2.0, blah blah blah... This is how I imagine a 14yr old would wrap up a series.
How are there no questions about how awesome Snape is?? Lol. Snape is the best. I KNEW HE WAS A GOOD GUY! I could read the chapter uncovering his memories a thousand times. It's probably my favourite part of the whole book.
How are there no questions about how awesome Snape is?? Lol. Snape is the best. I KNEW HE WAS A GOOD GUY! I could read the chapter uncovering his memories a thousand times. It's probably my favourite part of the whole book.
Doh! Somehow I didn't notice that I'd missed picking a Snape question when I was collecting them all.
I was always Team Snape is a Good Guy too, even after he killed Dumbledore and we were left to wonder for years what was going on. At that point I still trusted that Dumbledore knew what he was doing (even if I had my doubts when his past was being revealed in book 7).
How are there no questions about how awesome Snape is?? Lol. Snape is the best. I KNEW HE WAS A GOOD GUY! I could read the chapter uncovering his memories a thousand times. It's probably my favourite part of the whole book.
Doh! Somehow I didn't notice that I'd missed picking a Snape question when I was collecting them all.
I was always Team Snape is a Good Guy too, even after he killed Dumbledore and we were left to wonder for years what was going on. At that point I still trusted that Dumbledore knew what he was doing (even if I had my doubts when his past was being revealed in book 7).
If there's one thing Book 7 does, it shows us that very few people are truly good or evil. We learn serious bad things about Dumbledore and Ron, and serious good things about Snape.
Snape was really awesome for discussions in the years before book 7 came out, though! Akin to the "is
... - I was a bit annoyed with Dumbledore, but I do think he intended to give Harry more information. I believe he was blindsided by Malfoy's attack. As we learn that Dumbledore is arrogant regarding his personal intelligence and abilities, he probably expected to know when Malfoy would make his real attempt. Knowing when he would be killed, he would have given Harry more information. His bequethings were a just-in-case insurance policy, but given his fierce protectiveness of the students, I doubt he truly expected to be killed at a time that was not part of his grand plan. ...
But he did know he was going to die soon, according to Snape's memories. Didn't Snape say it would be a year or so when he first treated Dumbledore's hand?
That said, it does seem like both he and Snape left a lot to chance about explaining things to Harry!