The odd-pope out was Sixtus V, with his papal bull Effraenatam (1588)--it said abortion at any stage of pregnancy was wrong. It was revoked in 1591 (by the next pope, Gregory XIV), and the church kept the division of "animated" vs. "inanimated" until the late 19th century. Ending a pregnancy before "quickening" was still considered a sin for most of the history of the Catholic Church, but it was not considered murder before the fetus had a soul.
Thanks. I knew he had a funny name.
There hasn't been another Pope Sixtus, either, because no one wants to be Sixtus VI. (I'd totally be Sixtus VI if they asked, just sayin')
I have a semi related question. When did the church move to life starts at conception from life starting at the quickening when the fetal movements start being felt? Was it the advances in science that made conception easier to pinpoint that pushed it back?
I really wish that the science behind pregnancy and childbirth was better understood, or more accurately, correctly portrayed. It is absolutely staggering how much more physically and mentally hard childbirth is on a woman than abortion. Each risk is like 4 times (? I read multiple sources and I don't have them handy) worse for a full term pregnancy.
Yet, every pro--lifer throws out the "mentally hard later on" as an afterthought when discussing the mom. It is terrible for the baby, and oh yeah, it might be hard for the mom, while completely dismissing that it is harder on the mom in every facet to go through childbirth.
I have not finished the thread yet, but YES to this! I think that there is real data out there, but it's not easy to find. I think a lot of it is collected by the Guttmacher Institute. I'd love to have a contraception/abortion/childbirth data day in September to figure things. Mortality rates. Morbidity rates. I've read that pregnancy and childbirth and abortion and adoption are all associated with higher rates of depression...
Post by cattledogkisses on Aug 17, 2015 17:10:43 GMT -5
Why do anti-choice advocates always think that aborted fetuses would have grown up to cure cancer and usher in world peace? No one knows that. They just as well may have become serial killers for all anyone knows.
Why do anti-choice advocates always think that aborted fetuses would have grown up to cure cancer and usher in world peace? No one knows that. They just as well may have become serial killers for all anyone knows.
And how do they not know that they aren't sitting in a failing inner city school or a casualty of one of our wars?
Why do anti-choice advocates always think that aborted fetuses would have grown up to cure cancer and usher in world peace? No one knows that. They just as well may have become serial killers for all anyone knows.
There is compelling evidence that legalized abortion has led to a reduction in the crime rate:
Why do anti-choice advocates always think that aborted fetuses would have grown up to cure cancer and usher in world peace? No one knows that. They just as well may have become serial killers for all anyone knows.
It also seems rather dismissive of the mother. An unwanted pregnancy can dramatically alter the life of the woman carrying the baby, but well, it's unborn fetus with the real potential that should be protected here. God forbid the woman already well into her life be a consoderation, there is a completely undeveloped person at stake here!
This is why it matters that the media is covering all the Trumpcapades without covering real news like: a "mainstream" GOP candidate for presidency would support laws that would force a 10 year old rape victim to carry a pregnancy to term and give birth. This SHOULD effectively end Huckabee's candidacy, but it won't. In fact, I'm guessing that this board is one of only a handful of places discussing this, much less criticizing it.
This is a great point and something Dan Savage brought up this morning in his podcast. We are all over here watching the Foolish antics of Trump and we are missing the point that all of these GOP candidates want to strip us of choices and treat us as babymakers, marital sex toys, and glass-eyed "yes people." It's sick, and to only see Trump as the villain is to miss all of the other heinous shit that is going on under our very noses.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
Why do anti-choice advocates always think that aborted fetuses would have grown up to cure cancer and usher in world peace? No one knows that. They just as well may have become serial killers for all anyone knows.
Not only this, but a single mother forced to now care for an infant? I mean, let's not act like Huckabee and his analogues are all that interested in social programs to help single moms, so...are we even giving these kids a fighting shot at life? No. He doesn't give a fuck about that child once it's born. Just that it arrives here the way HE is most comfortable.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."