Yahoo's CEO's plan for maternity leave bad for women...

[tres3]

my headline. She's expecting twins and anticipates taking limited time off post pregnancy just like she did with her first son.

money.cnn.com/2015/09/01/technology/yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayer-pregnant-twins/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom

Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer is pregnant and expecting identical twin girls in December.
Mayer made the announcement Tuesday in a post on her official Tumblr page, saying the "twins part was quite a surprise."

The CEO said she has shared the news with Yahoo's board of directors, and described them as "incredibly supportive."
"Since my pregnancy has been healthy and uncomplicated and since this is a unique time in Yahoo's transformation, I plan to approach the pregnancy and delivery as I did with my son three years ago, taking limited time away and working throughout," Mayer said in the Tumblr post.
A Yahoo (YHOO, Tech30) spokesperson confirmed that Mayer is pregnant, adding that the company is "extremely happy for her and supportive of her plans and approach."
Mayer has one son, Macallister, who was born in 2013.
Yahoo shares have fallen by more than 35% since January, complicating Mayer's efforts to revive the struggling tech firm.
The CEO faces a major challenge later this year, when Yahoo is expected to spin off its remaining stake in Alibaba (BABA, Tech30). Buyers might be scared away by slower sales growth and allegations of fake goods on Alibaba's Taobao and Tmall platforms.
Many investors remain unconvinced that there is much value in Yahoo's core business.

[Deleted]

Twins? I hope she doesn't end up on bedrest.

[josieposy]

Ooookay then.

I mean, one on hand I want to be supportive and very "yay go women!" but on the other I want to tell her it's not a competition and it's okay to stop and take a breath. I hope her pregnancy continues to be healthy.

[WOT?*]

I'm sure the board *is* very supportive of her working right through pregnancy and maternity leave.

This sucks for Yahoo, and it sucks for working women everywhere. Now all the OWMs in charge will continue to assume that women can work their entire pregnancy, spit out a kid while typing at their desk and go right on working. "Hey, they do it in the fields. Why can't you do it in the office? Ya soft?"

Bully for her, I guess.

[cville]

I don't think her life and maternity leave is any reflection on anyone else's at Yahoo or elsewhere. She's THE CEO. There's only one. Literally no one else is expected to be like her.

And for women CEOs in particular, there are limited chances. You don't have wild success at your first company? You're going to be fired, be deemed a failure forever, and will likely not get a second chance. It's a phenomenon so common it has a name, the Glass Cliff.

[harrylauder]

she'd. n

[tres3]

Sept 1, 2015 7:07:15 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

I have heard nothing of Yahoo demanding this from their other employees since she had her first. So as long as this company is not demanding that other people take short ML or making them feel like this is the standard, I don't see the issue. She is the only person who can do her job. She can't have a temp fill in and from the article Yahoo is going through some big stuff right now. I just hope she realizes that every pregnancy is not the same. Hopefully this pregnancy remains healthy and uneventful.

How leadership acts sets the example for the rest of the company. 

[ttt]

To me, the biggest problem is that American women have very few choices when it comes to maternity leave. Usually, women can either take a fairly pitiful maternity leave (12 weeks unpaid, sometimes 5 weeks paid at a percentage under a STD policy) or they can quit. Women working hourly jobs rarely even get that, of course.

Marissa Mayer has tons of choices. She took a two-week leave last time, yes, but she also had a nursery built right into her office and (I'm assuming) the option of paid help so that she could work AND be near her baby at the same time. I bet a LOT of professional women would love to have that option, to keep working, but also be near the baby while someone else is doing the primary care for him/her.

So, it's not the length of the leave itself that bothers me about this because no, CEOs can't just take 12 weeks off - it's whether she is giving other women at her company more choices when it comes to maternity leave.

[iammalcolmx]

Sept 1, 2015 7:10:32 GMT -5 tres3 said:

Sept 1, 2015 7:07:15 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

I have heard nothing of Yahoo demanding this from their other employees since she had her first. So as long as this company is not demanding that other people take short ML or making them feel like this is the standard, I don't see the issue. She is the only person who can do her job. She can't have a temp fill in and from the article Yahoo is going through some big stuff right now. I just hope she realizes that every pregnancy is not the same. Hopefully this pregnancy remains healthy and uneventful.

How leadership acts sets the example for the rest of the company. 

No, company policy does. If she is setting a new policy that's one thing but if this is her personal choice, so what?

[eclaires]

Sept 1, 2015 6:35:29 GMT -5 cville said:

I don't think her life and maternity leave is any reflection on anyone else's at Yahoo or elsewhere. She's THE CEO. There's only one. Literally no one else is expected to be like her.

And for women CEOs in particular, there are limited chances. You don't have wild success at your first company? You're going to be fired, be deemed a failure forever, and will likely not get a second chance. It's a phenomenon so common it has a name, the Glass Cliff.

I guess my question is - what do male CEOs do? My experience with them is limited but the ones I am aware of take no time basically, but other males in their company will take time.

This, to me, is sort of like how a lot of men who are very high up who have kids have SAH spouses. The job is really demanding, so for a woman who doesn't have a SAH spouse the juggling and advancing is a more difficult path comparatively.

I'm not really sure how you fix it or make it more equal/fair because a job that high up is inherently important and demanding. You can't be gone for an extended period of time and I imagine vacations are similar - always on call and reachable. Any man I know in that position is rarely fully present with their families, honestly.

I think Yahoo's CEO has to do what is best for herself as a CEO, though, because a) it's her livelihood and career and b) her staying CEO and being successful is probably more important to women in careers than her setting an example and taking a true maternity leave. I also think - like men who are at that level in their career - you have to make a choice and prioritize what makes sense for you. I kind of think if you make it to that point, your career is going to be a top priority most of the time.

[sugarglider]

Sept 1, 2015 7:25:34 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Sept 1, 2015 7:10:32 GMT -5 tres3 said:

How leadership acts sets the example for the rest of the company. 

No, company policy does. If she is setting a new policy that's one thing but if this is her personal choice, so what?

Exactly. Also, under most leave laws, key employees (very small set of individuals) get less protection than everyone else. Having capable employees in the HR department will have a far greater impact than the CEO's personal choice, as will having leave policies that are more generous than the law's requirements.

Also, Yahoo is in California, right? Home of PDL and CFRA...so the legal requirements alone are far more generous for the vast majority of her employees than what she's doing.

[Deleted]

Women just can't win.

I presume she enjoys taking limited maternity leave as I assume she has a lot of outside help for her kids and household. As long as she isn't forcing this on other employees, why is this a headline? Not every mom wants to take 6 months off and that's ok too.

[ttt]

My only concern is that the expectation could easily filter down. If the CEO is only taking two weeks, well, why shouldn't VPs? And if VPs are only taking two weeks, then shouldn't Directors also only take that? And if Directors are taking that, then managers should too. Etc. etc.

It's a lot like vacation time - it's great to have lots of it, but it's pointless if culturally, it's not acceptable to actually take that time. I worry about seeing a race to the bottom, where women compete to take the shortest leaves and then it becomes *expected* that women only take short leaves and get back to work ASAP.

[boiler717]

Sept 1, 2015 7:27:45 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Sept 1, 2015 6:35:29 GMT -5 cville said:

I don't think her life and maternity leave is any reflection on anyone else's at Yahoo or elsewhere. She's THE CEO. There's only one. Literally no one else is expected to be like her.

And for women CEOs in particular, there are limited chances. You don't have wild success at your first company? You're going to be fired, be deemed a failure forever, and will likely not get a second chance. It's a phenomenon so common it has a name, the Glass Cliff.

I guess my question is - what do male CEOs do? My experience with them is limited but the ones I am aware of take no time basically, but other males in their company will take time.

This, to me, is sort of like how a lot of men who are very high up who have kids have SAH spouses. The job is really demanding, so for a woman who doesn't have a SAH spouse the juggling and advancing is a more difficult path comparatively.

I'm not really sure how you fix it or make it more equal/fair because a job that high up is inherently important and demanding. You can't be gone for an extended period of time and I imagine vacations are similar - always on call and reachable. Any man I know in that position is rarely fully present with their families, honestly.

I think Yahoo's CEO has to do what is best for herself as a CEO, though, because a) it's her livelihood and career and b) her staying CEO and being successful is probably more important to women in careers than her setting an example and taking a true maternity leave. I also think - like men who are at that level in their career - you have to make a choice and prioritize what makes sense for you. I kind of think if you make it to that point, your career is going to be a top priority most of the time.

The male CEO of Eli Lilly (not yahoo large but still large Fortune 500 company) took a 2 month leave for heart surgery. I don't think it's unheard of for medical reason, like physically recovering birth would be. I agree that not many take leave for birth or adoption of a child without a medical reason.

[readyin07]

Sept 1, 2015 8:14:40 GMT -5 ttt said:

My only concern is that the expectation could easily filter down. If the CEO is only taking two weeks, well, why shouldn't VPs? And if VPs are only taking two weeks, then shouldn't Directors also only take that? And if Directors are taking that, then managers should too. Etc. etc.

It's a lot like vacation time - it's great to have lots of it, but it's pointless if culturally, it's not acceptable to actually take that time. I worry about seeing a race to the bottom, where women compete to take the shortest leaves and then it becomes *expected* that women only take short leaves and get back to work ASAP.

Exactly.


I see both sides of this, I truly do.


She is one of only a handful of CEOs at this level, female or not. You have to get stuff done, particularly given that it is a crucial time for the company. It is special circumstances that most women (or men) will never encounter. 

But you have to be daft to not see how the trickle down works here. We tell people all the time to take their cues from their boss if they eventually aspire to BE their boss so what about her female direct reports, what is expected of them. And it's not a far leap to think that expectations on working after childbirth could change when others take notice that women at the top are "needing" less and less maternity leave. 

[iammalcolmx]

Sept 1, 2015 7:59:58 GMT -5 sugarglider said:

Sept 1, 2015 7:25:34 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

No, company policy does. If she is setting a new policy that's one thing but if this is her personal choice, so what?

Exactly. Also, under most leave laws, key employees (very small set of individuals) get less protection than everyone else. Having capable employees in the HR department will have a far greater impact than the CEO's personal choice, as will having leave policies that are more generous than the law's requirements.

Also, Yahoo is in California, right? Home of PDL and CFRA...so the legal requirements alone are far more generous for the vast majority of her employees than what she's doing.

Don't get me started on California PLEASE!!! It's like Pennsylvania and all those fucking taxes.

[eclaires]

Sept 1, 2015 8:25:51 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

Sept 1, 2015 8:14:40 GMT -5 ttt said:

My only concern is that the expectation could easily filter down. If the CEO is only taking two weeks, well, why shouldn't VPs? And if VPs are only taking two weeks, then shouldn't Directors also only take that? And if Directors are taking that, then managers should too. Etc. etc.

It's a lot like vacation time - it's great to have lots of it, but it's pointless if culturally, it's not acceptable to actually take that time. I worry about seeing a race to the bottom, where women compete to take the shortest leaves and then it becomes *expected* that women only take short leaves and get back to work ASAP.

Exactly.


I see both sides of this, I truly do.


She is one of only a handful of CEOs at this level, female or not. You have to get stuff done, particularly given that it is a crucial time for the company. It is special circumstances that most women (or men) will never encounter. 

But you have to be daft to not see how the trickle down works here. We tell people all the time to take their cues from their boss if they eventually aspire to BE their boss so what about her female direct reports, what is expected of them. And it's not a far leap to think that expectations on working after childbirth could change when others take notice that women at the top are "needing" less and less maternity leave. 

Sure, but at the same time, the limited number of female CEOs also means there is importance on her actually staying the CEO and being successful.  And that might mean a limited maternity leave.  I guess I think here there is no right or wrong decision, and she knows her job and what she needs to do best.  

[ttt]

Sept 1, 2015 8:39:45 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Sept 1, 2015 8:14:40 GMT -5 ttt said:

My only concern is that the expectation could easily filter down. If the CEO is only taking two weeks, well, why shouldn't VPs? And if VPs are only taking two weeks, then shouldn't Directors also only take that? And if Directors are taking that, then managers should too. Etc. etc.

It's a lot like vacation time - it's great to have lots of it, but it's pointless if culturally, it's not acceptable to actually take that time. I worry about seeing a race to the bottom, where women compete to take the shortest leaves and then it becomes *expected* that women only take short leaves and get back to work ASAP.

But it has been 2 years since her first and we have not heard a peep about this trickling down. Do you really think it wouldn't have made it to the news that this was (or becoming) Yahoo culture? I am sure there will be some people who take shorter ML because they think it is their way to get ahead. And if Yahoo only promotes those who do, then we have an issue. But people (not you) are getting all riled up about something that hasn't happened at all.

I honestly don't know. I would be interested to hear from women at Yahoo and what they think of the culture around maternity leave and such. 

I think Marissa Mayer needs to make the decision that's right for her career and her family. But I hope she will also be mindful of the fact that whether she likes it or not, she *is* a symbol and what she does will affect women beyond just her, even if it's only in tone and expectation. And I hope she takes steps that allow other women at Yahoo to make the decisions that are right for their careers and family as well. 

[sparkythelawyer]

I think that one of the things that is important in the fight for good parental leave in this country is the fact that women should be able to take the time they need. She only needs a few weeks. Some women need a few months. I don't have the right to judge either one.

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2015 8:25:51 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

Sept 1, 2015 8:14:40 GMT -5 ttt said:

My only concern is that the expectation could easily filter down. If the CEO is only taking two weeks, well, why shouldn't VPs? And if VPs are only taking two weeks, then shouldn't Directors also only take that? And if Directors are taking that, then managers should too. Etc. etc.

It's a lot like vacation time - it's great to have lots of it, but it's pointless if culturally, it's not acceptable to actually take that time. I worry about seeing a race to the bottom, where women compete to take the shortest leaves and then it becomes *expected* that women only take short leaves and get back to work ASAP.

Exactly.


I see both sides of this, I truly do.


She is one of only a handful of CEOs at this level, female or not. You have to get stuff done, particularly given that it is a crucial time for the company. It is special circumstances that most women (or men) will never encounter. 

But you have to be daft to not see how the trickle down works here. We tell people all the time to take their cues from their boss if they eventually aspire to BE their boss so what about her female direct reports, what is expected of them. And it's not a far leap to think that expectations on working after childbirth could change when others take notice that women at the top are "needing" less and less maternity leave. 

Maybe flameful, but I would presume that if I want to be a CEO I'm not going to have the luxury of taking an extended maternity leave in this country. 

Unless someone can show me where Yahoo has now changed their policy to essentially eliminate maternity leave based on what this woman is doing, then I don't think this should be a discussion.

If you're an hourly worker at Yahoo and see the CEO taking a short leave and feel like that means you need to take a short leave even though the policy says otherwise, then I think that's on you. 

Why is it a problem if a woman wants to be career focused and family focused? Yes we all have a little bit of responsibility to think about the bigger picture, but if this woman in a high position wants to keep working (I presume she can do a lot of work remotely via email or conference calls), then more power to her. It's not like she's a janitor that is going to be strapping the babies on her back while she cleans toilets. 

[pescalita]

It's going to be a much larger issue for women if Meyer takes a long leave, Yahoo tanks, and she's fired.

Congrats to her.

[readyin07]

Sept 1, 2015 8:36:36 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Sept 1, 2015 8:25:51 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

Exactly.


I see both sides of this, I truly do.


She is one of only a handful of CEOs at this level, female or not. You have to get stuff done, particularly given that it is a crucial time for the company. It is special circumstances that most women (or men) will never encounter. 

But you have to be daft to not see how the trickle down works here. We tell people all the time to take their cues from their boss if they eventually aspire to BE their boss so what about her female direct reports, what is expected of them. And it's not a far leap to think that expectations on working after childbirth could change when others take notice that women at the top are "needing" less and less maternity leave. 

Sure, but at the same time, the limited number of female CEOs also means there is importance on her actually staying the CEO and being successful.  And that might mean a limited maternity leave.  I guess I think here there is no right or wrong decision, and she knows her job and what she needs to do best.  

I totally agree. It's a tough issue and I see both sides and she would have gotten blasted either way. And at the end of the day, Marissa Mayer doesn't have to be speak for all women, she has to do what works for herself, her family and her company. I guess it would maybe be nice to see addressed the crazy amount of privilege that she gets in her position (as mentioned above) that the rest of us peons don't get that make her decision possible

[autumnfire]

I really hope her pregnancy continues to go smoothly.

I see both sides to this especially given she's the CEO. I get it 100%. But, I also get what others are saying regarding being a little worried about the trickle down. I'm also worried that if she pulls this off with twins it could be compared. "X had twins and did it just fine. You're only having one it couldn't be nearly as difficult." Completely missing that she likely had 24/7 help outside of her immediate family.

She may have been able to do it with her son but I wonder how realistic she is regarding twins? Unless her spouse is a SAH.

[sugarglider]

Sept 1, 2015 8:36:05 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Sept 1, 2015 7:59:58 GMT -5 sugarglider said:

Exactly. Also, under most leave laws, key employees (very small set of individuals) get less protection than everyone else. Having capable employees in the HR department will have a far greater impact than the CEO's personal choice, as will having leave policies that are more generous than the law's requirements.

Also, Yahoo is in California, right? Home of PDL and CFRA...so the legal requirements alone are far more generous for the vast majority of her employees than what she's doing.

Don't get me started on California PLEASE!!! It's like Pennsylvania and all those fucking taxes.

Haha, job security for me (and you, if you want to move out here !

[laurenpetro]

I'd be surprised if someone with the drive to become CEO of any F500 company could handle staying at home for 6-12 weeks.

If she's doing what she wants to do and isn't requiring other employees to follow her lead then good for her.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I don't see this working out for her.

I mean if it does, great. But I'd be surprised if her recovery from twins was the same as recovery from a singleton.

[tres3]

Sept 1, 2015 8:14:40 GMT -5 ttt said:

My only concern is that the expectation could easily filter down. If the CEO is only taking two weeks, well, why shouldn't VPs? And if VPs are only taking two weeks, then shouldn't Directors also only take that? And if Directors are taking that, then managers should too. Etc. etc.

It's a lot like vacation time - it's great to have lots of it, but it's pointless if culturally, it's not acceptable to actually take that time. I worry about seeing a race to the bottom, where women compete to take the shortest leaves and then it becomes *expected* that women only take short leaves and get back to work ASAP.

exactly

[pescalita]

Honestly, I bet she's pissed right now that her H can't carry. This is one of those situations where being a woman is just inherently unfair. She doesn't have great options.

[josieposy]

Freely admitting that my experience is clouding my thoughts on this, I was kinda thinking about this and what happens when other CEO's become ill (Jobs is the only one that comes to mind). It's great that she's doing well, but it's a long way to December. What happens if (God forbid) things take a downturn? I assume companies have plans in place for these kinds of events, but it is a very real possibility that that she may have to take a longer break than she intended.

We do need more women CEOs for sure. I feel that sometime in our lifetime, a pregnant CEO is going to cause an even bigger discussion due to health complications, and then the question of should women in leadership positions step down is going to come up.

For the record, I am in no way saying Mayer should step down. I am making a prediction about some other currently-faceless CEO down the road.

[laurenpetro]

Sept 1, 2015 9:16:11 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I don't see this working out for her.

I mean if it does, great. But I'd be surprised if her recovery from twins was the same as recovery from a singleton.

I had 2 relatively ok pregnancies and the recovery time was pretty similar. My c/s recovery took longer but not that much.