I need good words from the wise

[katfco]

PDQ. I might delete some of the details. 

**poof** summary: just started at a rough, urban mostly AA school and a teacher mimicked students' manner of speech

I thought about asking "Is this racist," but considering the students' speech is classic AAV, I already know the answer. It's at the very least ignorant. 

My question is, how to respond if it or something like it comes up again. Today, I was in the process of leaving for a meeting I couldn't miss. I don't want to ignore it, but I want to approach it in such a way that my coworkers will hear and won't tune me out. I understand they're frustrated with the whole situation, but I find it highly inappropriate to be mocking students' speech, even behind closed doors, and particularly with such racial undertones.

 Suggestions? 

[katfco]

Sept 3, 2015 17:13:16 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

Well, I would say, if you show them so little respect as to mock the way they speak -- which is different from you but not necessarily wrong -- why would you expect them to respect and listen to you?

  I think the one who mimicked them would argue she wasn't mocking so much as making a teachable moment--and that the kids weren't listening before. 

[katfco]

Sept 3, 2015 17:37:01 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

Sept 3, 2015 17:18:17 GMT -5 katfco said:

  I think the one who mimicked them would argue she wasn't mocking so much as making a teachable moment--and that the kids weren't listening before. 

well then she is in the wrong profession

I've tried not to judge the last several days, because they both have a few years experience, and I'm still relatively green when it comes to classroom management. However, I have a hard time with how I perceive some of their methods. Today kind of took me over the edge and I'm freely judging. 

[meshaliuknits]

Sept 3, 2015 17:18:17 GMT -5 katfco said:

Sept 3, 2015 17:13:16 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

Well, I would say, if you show them so little respect as to mock the way they speak -- which is different from you but not necessarily wrong -- why would you expect them to respect and listen to you?

  I think the one who mimicked them would argue she wasn't mocking so much as making a teachable moment--and that the kids weren't listening before. 

It seems to me that it's possible her demeanor told the kids this is what she thought before her words did.

[katfco]

Sept 3, 2015 17:49:45 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

Sept 3, 2015 17:18:17 GMT -5 katfco said:

  I think the one who mimicked them would argue she wasn't mocking so much as making a teachable moment--and that the kids weren't listening before. 

It seems to me that it's possible her demeanor told the kids this is what she thought before her words did.

I know. I'm not defending her; just trying to figure out how to approach it if it comes up again. I don't want to stay silent, but I don't want to close off the conversation. I thought about saying something like, "Actually, AAVE is a linguistically recognized dialect, so it's more cultural than 'wrong,'" but I don't know if I can say that without coming off like a huge know it all. 

[sfy]

Can I get a tag when some child's mother comes to the school and gives her what's coming her way? Thanks!

[meshaliuknits]

Sept 3, 2015 17:51:26 GMT -5 katfco said:

Sept 3, 2015 17:49:45 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

It seems to me that it's possible her demeanor told the kids this is what she thought before her words did.

I know. I'm not defending her; just trying to figure out how to approach it if it comes up again. I don't want to stay silent, but I don't want to close off the conversation. I thought about saying something like, "Actually, AAVE is a linguistically recognized dialect, so it's more cultural than 'wrong,'" but I don't know if I can say that without coming off like a huge know it all. 

I didn't think you were. It's just how I would respond to the predicted "they started it" response.

[katfco]

Sept 3, 2015 17:52:24 GMT -5 sfy said:

Can I get a tag when some child's mother comes to the school and gives her what's coming her way? Thanks!

Will do. I'll also be keeping an ear out for any other comments and if more occur, even in the break room, I'll be talking to the principal. I hate the idea of "tattling" on my coworkers, but if this is their regular attitude, some cultural sensitivity training is needed. I'm pretty sure my principal--one of the only black women on staff--would be livid. 

[sfy]

Sept 3, 2015 17:58:24 GMT -5 katfco said:

Sept 3, 2015 17:52:24 GMT -5 sfy said:

Can I get a tag when some child's mother comes to the school and gives her what's coming her way? Thanks!

Will do. I'll also be keeping an ear out for any other comments and if more occur, even in the break room, I'll be talking to the principal. I hate the idea of "tattling" on my coworkers, but if this is their regular attitude, some cultural sensitivity training is needed. I'm pretty sure my principal--one of the only black women on staff--would be livid. 

This is going to be good. Please don't forget my tag when the time comes!

[omgzombies]

Is there someone you can report that sort of behavior to? Mocking students and pretending it's a "teachable moment" is not ok.

[foundmylazybum]

Often times people believe that silence=agreement, and you don't agree that the student's speech is wrong, bad, etc. So, why not just say YOUR opinion? It's actually the correct in many research circles so just say it and then look at the others.

Why are you lending more weight to their opinions than yours? You don't don't have to be an asshole about it, just say something like, "Huh, I don't mind the way the students speak. I've actually learned a lot from them and about them the last couple days."



/End. Then they have to defend mocking a kid. Which is assy.

"Actually, lallala proper speech..."

"No, it's a type of coded speech, it's been interesting getting used to it."

/End.

[rugbywife]

Kids behave for people they respect. If the tone of the school is "behave because we tell you to"...well, you aren't going to get kids to behave that way. Their commentary about how the students speak already says a lot about what the teachers think about the kids, and kids pick up on that.

Honestly, it is so hard to change that kind of culture. I know you said the staff is new but unless the admin sets the tone and expectation, not much will change.

That doesn't mean you can't speak up. I find that trying to show compassion and respect works best, when people speak dismissively of others. Also, if you end up with a good rapport with your kids, the other teachers will eventually take notice.

[katfco]

Sept 3, 2015 18:03:23 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

Is there someone you can report that sort of behavior to? Mocking students and pretending it's a "teachable moment" is not ok.

I don't know. I'm going to keep my ears open for anything else and when my peer review person comes in again next week, mention it to her. 

[katfco]

Sept 3, 2015 18:06:27 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

Often times people believe that silence=agreement, and you don't agree that the student's speech is wrong, bad, etc. So, why not just say YOUR opinion? It's actually the correct in many research circles so just say it and then look at the others.

Why are you lending more weight to their opinions than yours? You don't don't have to be an asshole about it, just say something like, "Huh, I don't mind the way the students speak. I've actually learned a lot from them and about them the last couple days."



/End. Then they have to defend mocking a kid. Which is assy.

"Actually, lallala proper speech..."

"No, it's a type of coded speech, it's been interesting getting used to it."

/End.

I didn't want to stay silent, but I was in the process of packing up my stuff to go. If I had been able to, I would have said something, anything, but as it was, I was still in the process of eating as I left. 

[foundmylazybum]

Oh I know!From your op it sounded like it came at the end of lunch and it seemed kind pf shocking etc. I hope it didn't sound like I was critcicizing.

[katfco]

Sept 3, 2015 18:36:33 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

Oh I know!From your op it sounded like it came at the end of lunch and it seemed kind pf shocking etc. I hope it didn't sound like I was critcicizing.

Not at all. I just hate that I was at the one point where I could not say something, literally, in fact, as I was still chewing in my way out the door. 

[truckentruck]

Maybe suggest to the teacher that she research a bit herself and then do a lesson about registers of language? Instead of mocking or discouraging the way the students speak, instead maybe highlighting how we all use different registers of language in different situations-- informal communication w. friends and family, a more formal register in school or work environments, most formal in written essays, etc? It sounds like maybe she needs to understand the way they talk to each other is legitimate, just as it's good for them to realize they can access different registers when situations are appropriate, etc.

[katfco]

Sept 3, 2015 18:09:19 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

Kids behave for people they respect. If the tone of the school is "behave because we tell you to"...well, you aren't going to get kids to behave that way. Their commentary about how the students speak already says a lot about what the teachers think about the kids, and kids pick up on that.

Honestly, it is so hard to change that kind of culture. I know you said the staff is new but unless the admin sets the tone and expectation, not much will change.

That doesn't mean you can't speak up. I find that trying to show compassion and respect works best, when people speak dismissively of others. Also, if you end up with a good rapport with your kids, the other teachers will eventually take notice.

This principal is doing a good job of having high expectations for students while maintaining a balance of spdiscipline and respect. She told me the other day that she likes that I seem like a very grounded person--having high expectations but also understanding where they're coming from.

[oscarnerdjulief]

Good luck with your upcoming school year. I had a rough year last year with classroom management, but am off to a great start this year. I teach 7th grade language arts in a rural school with a 40% poverty rate.

(You had sound advice from the other posters. I have nothing to add.)

[katfco]

Sept 3, 2015 19:42:19 GMT -5 oscarnerdjulief said:

Good luck with your upcoming school year. I had a rough year last year with classroom management, but am off to a great start this year. I teach 7th grade language arts in a rural school with a 40% poverty rate.

(You had sound advice from the other posters. I have nothing to add.)

Thanks. It's in a very rough area, and there has been at least one fight in our hall every day. I've stepped in between a couple of almost fights and a good portion of the day is spent just trying to get the kids to be quiet enough to listen to directions. 

[msmerymac]

Sept 3, 2015 17:51:26 GMT -5 katfco said:

Sept 3, 2015 17:49:45 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

It seems to me that it's possible her demeanor told the kids this is what she thought before her words did.

I know. I'm not defending her; just trying to figure out how to approach it if it comes up again. I don't want to stay silent, but I don't want to close off the conversation. I thought about saying something like, "Actually, AAVE is a linguistically recognized dialect, so it's more cultural than 'wrong,'" but I don't know if I can say that without coming off like a huge know it all. 

I don't know if this is the right way to address it or effective, but that was my first thought. "Actually, African American Vernacular English is recognized by linguists at a legitimate dialect! Of course, you're correct that most employers will be looking for what upper middle class white people would consider to be proper English, so keep on working on it, but students who haven't grown up speaking that way may take more time to master "traditional" grammar than others. But hey, I'm sure around the time of the Revolutionary War, the British thought Americans spoke with a horrible dialect! They probably still do. Maybe AAVE will become more common in the future among all classes and races of Americans."