My less serious answer is yes and it should be English. To stay here, at the age of 18 you have to be reading at least at a 3rd grade level and be able to pass a 2nd grade written exam. We could likely clear out over half of the people who are all, "but why I press 1? Dis 'Murica!"
In Canada we have 2 official languages. English and French. I think for us it means government agencies and literature has to be available in both languages. Our prime minister must speak both languages (I don't think that's required but makes sense) Court is available in both languages. School has to be available on English or French.
So although the US doesn't declare an official language I think it is English.
For the record, you are offered a translator where required. (In court, hospitals, etc)
Depending on the diversity of your area or municipality, official government documents are offered in various languages. Always English and usually Spanish, but there are others, of course. I think NYC, for example, has 5 official languages that all government documents are translated into.
I think that a lack of accommodation for local immigrant populations is the fear if English is made the "official" language.
I actually think not having an official language is a cool thing about this country. It's a nod to our immigrant heritage and the fact that we have always had a mix of languages.
This is an issue where I am very under informed. What would actually happen if there was one? What would change?
Nothing would change for English. Miraculously, we write government documents in English despite not having it as an official language. So I could see why some people might just say "Well, why not just make it official then?" There just isn't a need.
The problem with that is the consequence of what it does to speakers of other languages. And the English-Only movement's intention isn't innocuous. They believe eradicating the use of other languages in official documents would make people less resistant to learning English. Except if they've ever dealt with immigrant populations, the desire to learn English is strong and always has been. And it doesn't happen overnight. And if it never happens (mainly due to age), their kids and grandkids become English-dominant. So English is in no danger.
Creating an official language is makes more sense when you do it for a minority or endangered language - Hawaiian in Hawaii and some of the Native languages of Alaska are examples of current official state languages. Even then, it may not prevent their death but it at least promotes the official use and may delay language death (if not save it from death). This also serves to formally educate the population for its use as a second language.
Post by secretlyevil on Sept 7, 2015 7:42:21 GMT -5
Well Palin believes the official language is American (I saw this on a meme on FB, no clue if it's legit). But as previously mentioned America is a melting pot so..umm...the official American language is all of them?
This is an issue where I am very under informed. What would actually happen if there was one? What would change?
Nothing would change for English. Miraculously, we write government documents in English despite not having it as an official language. So I could see why some people might just say "Well, why not just make it official then?" There just isn't a need.
The problem with that is the consequence of what it does to speakers of other languages. And the English-Only movement's intention isn't innocuous. They believe eradicating the use of other languages in official documents would make people less resistant to learning English. Except if they've ever dealt with immigrant populations, the desire to learn English is strong and always has been. And it doesn't happen overnight. And if it never happens (mainly due to age), their kids and grandkids become English-dominant. So English is in no danger.
Creating an official language is makes more sense when you do it for a minority or endangered language - Hawaiian in Hawaii and some of the Native languages of Alaska are examples of current official state languages. Even then, it may not prevent their death but it at least promotes the official use and may delay language death (if not save it from death). This also serves to formally educate the population for its use as a second language.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I chose yes, but I'm nuanced about it. I think there should be an "official" language and that it should be English. But it would not be exclusionary. So, if a hospital or a school chose to have communication in more than one language, fine. But the default should be English. Road signs should be in English, nutrition labels should be in English, I should be able to expect the dude working at the public library to speak English and for the books to be organized and alphabetized in English, Court proceedings should take place in English and the expense of a translator should be borne by the individual who requires the translator and not the individual requesting the deposition/testimony/hearing etc... I care not about press 2 for spanish or billboards in ethnic neighborhoods. That's fine with me.
I also think people who come here should learn english. It is the language of commerce, governance, and education. You need to know it not to "assimilate" but to be enfranchised. Speak your own language as much as you want. But know English. To me, this is a matter of efficiency and consistency. I know the conversation will be dominated by the English v. Spanish issue, but the neighborhoods I have lived in have been eastern european and german, so when I see this issue, I see a never-ending list of translated forms to address many more languages than just Spanish.
This is an issue where I am very under informed. What would actually happen if there was one? What would change?
Nothing would change for English. Miraculously, we write government documents in English despite not having it as an official language. So I could see why some people might just say "Well, why not just make it official then?" There just isn't a need.
The problem with that is the consequence of what it does to speakers of other languages. And the English-Only movement's intention isn't innocuous. They believe eradicating the use of other languages in official documents would make people less resistant to learning English. Except if they've ever dealt with immigrant populations, the desire to learn English is strong and always has been. And it doesn't happen overnight. And if it never happens (mainly due to age), their kids and grandkids become English-dominant. So English is in no danger.
Creating an official language is makes more sense when you do it for a minority or endangered language - Hawaiian in Hawaii and some of the Native languages of Alaska are examples of current official state languages. Even then, it may not prevent their death but it at least promotes the official use and may delay language death (if not save it from death). This also serves to formally educate the population for its use as a second language.
This is true. I know my position leans right on this issue, but I can't align with those people because I don't have a problem with people's native languages continuing to flourish within their smaller communities and families. I have a friend who is Korean, but she teaches spanish and her husband is American. Her kids were tri-ligual before they could eat solids. It's pretty cool. But I do like the clarity and predictability of having an official language.
I chose yes, but I'm nuanced about it. I think there should be an "official" language and that it should be English. But it would not be exclusionary. So, if a hospital or a school chose to have communication in more than one language, fine. But the default should be English. Road signs should be in English, nutrition labels should be in English, I should be able to expect the dude working at the public library to speak English and for the books to be organized and alphabetized in English, Court proceedings should take place in English and the expense of a translator should be borne by the individual who requires the translator and not the individual requesting the deposition/testimony/hearing etc... I care not about press 2 for spanish or billboards in ethnic neighborhoods. That's fine with me.
I also think people who come here should learn english. It is the language of commerce, governance, and education. You need to know it not to "assimilate" but to be enfranchised. Speak your own language as much as you want. But know English. To me, this is a matter of efficiency and consistency. I know the conversation will be dominated by the English v. Spanish issue, but the neighborhoods I have lived in have been eastern european and german, so when I see this issue, I see a never-ending list of translated forms to address many more languages than just Spanish.
But that is already how it is. When you take your test for naturalization you have to take an English test. There are exceptions as who who is able to still be naturalized and not pass that portion (age and medical disability come quickly to mind). So, this is already how it is. I don't see the need to make it "official."
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I chose yes, but I'm nuanced about it. I think there should be an "official" language and that it should be English. But it would not be exclusionary. So, if a hospital or a school chose to have communication in more than one language, fine. But the default should be English. Road signs should be in English, nutrition labels should be in English, I should be able to expect the dude working at the public library to speak English and for the books to be organized and alphabetized in English, Court proceedings should take place in English and the expense of a translator should be borne by the individual who requires the translator and not the individual requesting the deposition/testimony/hearing etc... I care not about press 2 for spanish or billboards in ethnic neighborhoods. That's fine with me.
I also think people who come here should learn english. It is the language of commerce, governance, and education. You need to know it not to "assimilate" but to be enfranchised. Speak your own language as much as you want. But know English. To me, this is a matter of efficiency and consistency. I know the conversation will be dominated by the English v. Spanish issue, but the neighborhoods I have lived in have been eastern european and german, so when I see this issue, I see a never-ending list of translated forms to address many more languages than just Spanish.
But that is already how it is. When you take your test for naturalization you have to take an English test. There are exceptions as who who is able to still be naturalized and not pass that portion (age and medical disability come quickly to mind). So, this is already how it is. I don't see the need to make it "official."
Well, "this" isn't exactly already how it is. For example, the "learn english" to get naturalized is. But the cost of providing a translator in court proceedings is the responsibility of the person requesting the proceeding (dep, trial testimony, hearing). But to the extent a lot of it is already how it is, which is true, I guess I just think, since this is already how it is, it's unofficially official. Which is dumb. It should just be official and then we can move on.
I chose yes, but I'm nuanced about it. I think there should be an "official" language and that it should be English. But it would not be exclusionary. So, if a hospital or a school chose to have communication in more than one language, fine. But the default should be English. Road signs should be in English, nutrition labels should be in English, I should be able to expect the dude working at the public library to speak English and for the books to be organized and alphabetized in English, Court proceedings should take place in English and the expense of a translator should be borne by the individual who requires the translator and not the individual requesting the deposition/testimony/hearing etc... I care not about press 2 for spanish or billboards in ethnic neighborhoods. That's fine with me.
I also think people who come here should learn english. It is the language of commerce, governance, and education. You need to know it not to "assimilate" but to be enfranchised. Speak your own language as much as you want. But know English. To me, this is a matter of efficiency and consistency. I know the conversation will be dominated by the English v. Spanish issue, but the neighborhoods I have lived in have been eastern european and german, so when I see this issue, I see a never-ending list of translated forms to address many more languages than just Spanish.
I remember your experience. Most people aren't acting brand new when it comes to English. I am not spending a dime making the language official.
I chose yes, but I'm nuanced about it. I think there should be an "official" language and that it should be English. But it would not be exclusionary. So, if a hospital or a school chose to have communication in more than one language, fine. But the default should be English. Road signs should be in English, nutrition labels should be in English, I should be able to expect the dude working at the public library to speak English and for the books to be organized and alphabetized in English, Court proceedings should take place in English and the expense of a translator should be borne by the individual who requires the translator and not the individual requesting the deposition/testimony/hearing etc... I care not about press 2 for spanish or billboards in ethnic neighborhoods. That's fine with me.
I also think people who come here should learn english. It is the language of commerce, governance, and education. You need to know it not to "assimilate" but to be enfranchised. Speak your own language as much as you want. But know English. To me, this is a matter of efficiency and consistency. I know the conversation will be dominated by the English v. Spanish issue, but the neighborhoods I have lived in have been eastern european and german, so when I see this issue, I see a never-ending list of translated forms to address many more languages than just Spanish.
I remember your experience. Most people aren't acting brand new when it comes to English. I am not spending a dime making the language official.
I don't know what you mean by people acting brand new when it comes to English. I'm curious as to what it would cost to make the language "official." It's already used as if it is official.
I remember your experience. Most people aren't acting brand new when it comes to English. I am not spending a dime making the language official.
I don't know what you mean by people acting brand new when it comes to English. I'm curious as to what it would cost to make the language "official." It's already used as if it is official.
(1) Trying their hardest to NOT learn the language (2) Great, leave it alone.
I don't know what you mean by people acting brand new when it comes to English. I'm curious as to what it would cost to make the language "official." It's already used as if it is official.
(1) Trying their hardest to NOT learn the language (2) Great, leave it alone.
Right. I think it's a....myth (?) in the same way the welfare queen is. People aren't trying NOT to learn English and expecting everyone to accommodate them.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
If English were to become the official language of the United States, would Puerto Rico then be forced to conduct all official business in English and not Spanish?
Also, there is a reason the US has never had an official language - in the early colonial days, there were large segments of the population that didn't speak English - they spoke German, Dutch, French, etc. The US has never been an English-only nation.
If English were to become the official language of the United States, would Puerto Rico then be forced to conduct all official business in English and not Spanish?
Also, there is a reason the US has never had an official language - in the early colonial days, there were large segments of the population that didn't speak English - they spoke German, Dutch, French, etc. The US has never been an English-only nation.
I thought there was a fight about whether it would be German or English and they couldn't agree so didn't create one. I don't know where I heard that though.
I also don't think people are "trying not to learn English." I just think they don't for any number of reasons, but should.
And I also remember the various viewpoints for the board on this issue. I lean pretty hard left on almost every social justice, vulnerable population issue. Just not this one.
If English were to become the official language of the United States, would Puerto Rico then be forced to conduct all official business in English and not Spanish?
Also, there is a reason the US has never had an official language - in the early colonial days, there were large segments of the population that didn't speak English - they spoke German, Dutch, French, etc. The US has never been an English-only nation.
I thought there was a fight about whether it would be German or English and they couldn't agree so didn't create one. I don't know where I heard that though.
I also don't think people are "trying not to learn English." I just think they don't for any number of reasons, but should.
And I also remember the various viewpoints for the board on this issue. I lean pretty hard left on almost every social justice, vulnerable population issue. Just not this one.
No problem. I remember we disagree about this and Affirmative Action.
If English were to become the official language of the United States, would Puerto Rico then be forced to conduct all official business in English and not Spanish?
Also, there is a reason the US has never had an official language - in the early colonial days, there were large segments of the population that didn't speak English - they spoke German, Dutch, French, etc. The US has never been an English-only nation.
I thought there was a fight about whether it would be German or English and they couldn't agree so didn't create one. I don't know where I heard that though.
I also don't think people are "trying not to learn English." I just think they don't for any number of reasons, but should.
And I also remember the various viewpoints for the board on this issue. I lean pretty hard left on almost every social justice, vulnerable population issue. Just not this one.
There's a myth about English winning the 'official language' vote and German losing by one vote, but it's just a myth. There was a proposal to publish federal laws in German as well as English in 1795, but it lost by one vote. It wasn't any official status. But the record of the debate was preserved, and the arguments were almost exactly like the ones you hear today, which is kind of funny. The German speaking population was about 10% of the population at the time, which is similar to the Spanish-speaking population today.
This question and debate has no meaning. It's an R question designed to enflame the base, full of sound and fury but signifying nothing. Whether the language is officially English or not won't change anything. The language of this country is English. It's what our government uses. It's what businesses use. It's the language taught in schools. It's the language most people primarily speak. Because we are an inclusive society and we value diversity (to some extent, greater in some parts, less so in others) (Eta and value capitalism and efficiency, probably above all else) we translate govt forms in other languages, we have business communities that cater to certain languages, and we teach other languages in schools. None of this changes whether we "officially recognize" English or not. The question is simply designed to make some communities feel less than and others feel puffed up.
I thought there was a fight about whether it would be German or English and they couldn't agree so didn't create one. I don't know where I heard that though.
I also don't think people are "trying not to learn English." I just think they don't for any number of reasons, but should.
And I also remember the various viewpoints for the board on this issue. I lean pretty hard left on almost every social justice, vulnerable population issue. Just not this one.
No problem. I remember we disagree about this and Affirmative Action.
The article from the Atlantic on reparations changed my mind about Affirmative Action. I think the concept is very problematic and nearly impossible to fairly implement, but probably does more good than harm.
No problem. I remember we disagree about this and Affirmative Action.
The article from the Atlantic on reparations changed my mind about Affirmative Action. I think the concept is very problematic and nearly impossible to fairly implement, but probably does more good than harm.
I want one person here to tell me how easy it is to learn a new language as an adult. Not saying impossible, but man, it's hard. I can't imagine a large number of people who emigrate to a new country PURPOSEFULLY choose to not speak the language.
I want one person here to tell me how easy it is to learn a new language as an adult. Not saying impossible, but man, it's hard. I can't imagine a large number of people who emigrate to a new country PURPOSEFULLY choose to not speak the language.
Again, no one is saying this. And while there are a number of arguments against the establishment of an official language in the US that are compelling, "it's hard to learn foreign languages" isn't one of them.
Post by gibbinator on Sept 7, 2015 12:48:56 GMT -5
Interesting, I didn't realize there was no official, countrywide language! We have French and English at the federal level here but at the provincial level only New Brunswick is officially bilingual as well.
I can't say I really encounter many people that speak no English. Heavily accented English, sure. Is there really a problem with tons of immigrants coming here and not learning any English?
I know in Colorado we have neighborhoods where residents are able to speak broken English at best, though I believe that is primarily true for adults more than the kids who are attending school and being exposed to English throughout the day.
On the health insurance side, we are consistently challenged to provide materials in Spanish and Korean so we can provide adequate information to those consumers. To that end, I don't feel we should require a person to speak/read English if they want something crucial like food or health care.
This question and debate has no meaning. It's an R question designed to enflame the base, full of sound and fury but signifying nothing. Whether the language is officially English or not won't change anything. The language of this country is English. It's what our government uses. It's what businesses use. It's the language taught in schools. It's the language most people primarily speak. Because we are an inclusive society and we value diversity (to some extent, greater in some parts, less so in others) (Eta and value capitalism and efficiency, probably above all else) we translate govt forms in other languages, we have business communities that cater to certain languages, and we teach other languages in schools. None of this changes whether we "officially recognize" English or not. The question is simply designed to make some communities feel less than and others feel puffed up.
I can't say I really encounter many people that speak no English. Heavily accented English, sure. Is there really a problem with tons of immigrants coming here and not learning any English?
Yes. This is an actual, real problem. Probably more so in highly-urban areas than in rural areas. But even where I live now, which fancies itself urban, but is... at best barely so, the hospitals and schools struggle with communication with immigrants who speak almost no English at all. My kids' school, which relies heavily on parent involvement to function is struggling with this. The kids speak/read English, but their parents don't. And just to avoid round three of the conversation: I am not saying they are purposefully refusing or don't want to learn English. Just that they don't, probably for multiple and varying reasons.
I can't say I really encounter many people that speak no English. Heavily accented English, sure. Is there really a problem with tons of immigrants coming here and not learning any English?
Yes. This is an actual, real problem. Probably more so in highly-urban areas than in rural areas. But even where I live now, which fancies itself urban, but is... at best barely so, the hospitals and schools struggle with communication with immigrants who speak almost no English at all. My kids' school, which relies heavily on parent involvement to function is struggling with this. The kids speak/read English, but their parents don't. And just to avoid round three of the conversation: I am not saying they are purposefully refusing or don't want to learn English. Just that they don't, probably for multiple and varying reasons.
I think this has probably been a problem since the beginning of this country (people used to complain about those who only spoke German or Dutch) and will continue to be one so long as we retain our national character of being a nation of immigrants. There will always be a new group of immigrants who don't (or don't yet) speak English. Because the origin of these immigrants is so varied and constantly changes, I don't think even having a second official language would really help anything.
I do think that immigrants should learn English and I think we should help and encourage that. But I don't think making English the official language would do anything practically except satisfy the "English Only" crowd.