Sorta CEP related Religious History Class

[gpw]

So, I'm watching this video for a Religious History class I have and this professor from BU is speaking.  Let me first say that I am not contradicting his assertion, I'm sure he knows more than me and I plan to do my own internet poking around on the subject, but he said something that my gut didn't agree with.  

He said "The U.S. is one of the most religious countries on the earth."  

My initial reaction is "no it isn't."  I'm just wondering what some of you think about that statement.  I guess for me, I think about all the countries that are theocracies and SA countries that (to me) seem very religious.  I don't know.  

What say you?  

(Also, I'm not looking for answers to anything or help with homework or anything -- just a question that popped up in my head while watching this.  I still have an hour to go watching this thing)

[StrawberryBlondie]

I think we're probably one of the most religious in the sense that we have a small percentage that will admit to being atheist.

[zelda25]

My first reaction is that "one of the most..." could mean anything. Compared to what? Measuring how? It's kind of a non-specific statement, so it could be true or might not be true, depending on how you look at it. I can see what you mean in comparison to SA countries. On the other hand, if you're comparing us to European or Asian countries, we probably look VERY religious.

[gpw]

I suppose that is true about Asian countries. I think of some European countries and might be a little dubious. I mean, isn't The Church of England an official religion of the UK (or of England)? Germany I think Lutherans....but I see your point when it comes to other European countries (Denmark, Finland, Russia, etc.) There are probably more non religious countries than not in Europe.

[sushi]

Thailand is supposed to be the most religious with 95% reporting as actively practicing Buddhists. Their schools have mandatory religion classes too.

The question of fervor and tolerance probably belongs elsewhere though. In Thailand for instance, is you're part of the 1 % Christians, you go to class but can read a book.

Another way to think about identity and intensity, what about in America those who were baptised or are certain Christians but don't really believe? Cultural catholics? How do you compare that?

Or countries where it's illegal and dangerous to be an atheist?

Tl;Dr define "most"

[gpw]

Sept 8, 2015 18:34:18 GMT -5 toledo said:

From what i remember from grad school, this is about self identification. With that measure, the U.S. is one of the more religious countries in the world, especially among democracies.

But this is all from memory. I have no handy charts or graphs. Lol.

That makes sense.  I suppose a lot of Americans would classify themselves as a religion and yet not be "practicing."  (Said the self identified Lutheran who has turned into a Christmas and Easter church goer.)

I'm just watching this guy and I'm bored to tears.  I hope the rest of the semester is better than this.  

[sushi]

"Asia" isn't religious? There's something like 50 countries there. China and Russia? No. Indonesia? Hell yes.

[Cicero]

Sept 8, 2015 18:46:45 GMT -5 sushi said:

"Asia" isn't religious? There's something like 50 countries there. China and Russia? No. Indonesia? Hell yes.

Going to mass in Malaysia was a two to two and a half hour commitment in Malaysia instead of the hour it is here. You have to get there fifteen minutes early if you want a seat and afterwards it takes a half hour to get out of the parking lot because you have to wait for everyone who has blocked you in to leave before you can move. I'll have to see if I can find a picture of one of the parking lots because cars parked two or three wide completely blocking the driving one because there were just so many people. And this was in a Muslim country.

[gpw]

Sept 8, 2015 18:46:45 GMT -5 sushi said:

"Asia" isn't religious? There's something like 50 countries there. China and Russia? No. Indonesia? Hell yes.

Heh.  He just spoke about Indonesia.  

[sushi]

G, what's the prof's background? He may be to catholic or western for his own good in which case we'll give you lots of counter points to make it more interesting

[sushi]

Sept 8, 2015 18:58:28 GMT -5 gpw said:

Sept 8, 2015 18:46:45 GMT -5 sushi said:

"Asia" isn't religious? There's something like 50 countries there. China and Russia? No. Indonesia? Hell yes.

Heh.  He just spoke about Indonesia.  

I'm curious to know but am about to board a flight so don't expect immediate response

[gpw]

Sept 8, 2015 18:59:37 GMT -5 sushi said:

Sept 8, 2015 18:58:28 GMT -5 gpw said:

Heh.  He just spoke about Indonesia.  

I'm curious to know but am about to board a flight so don't expect immediate response

He just mentioned Indonesia was 95% Muslim.  He didn't expand on it.  It was just funny to see that right after he said it. 

[gpw]

Sept 8, 2015 18:59:09 GMT -5 sushi said:

G, what's the prof's background? He may be to catholic or western for his own good in which case we'll give you lots of counter points to make it more interesting

I don't need counter points.  I just have to write an essay about the content and my reaction to it.  Nothing big.  I just was wondering what other people thought.  

[elleblue]

I see the U.S. as one of the most vocally religious countries, but not necessarily one of the most religious in general. 

[sushi]

OK. I was afraid it was going to be a long course if it started out this way.

Latest estimates are that at least 15% of Americans identify as atheist if that gives you anything.

I'd probably respond that is nearly impossible to compare due to a few of the isis I've already mentioned.

[gpw]

Sept 8, 2015 19:10:29 GMT -5 nursecramer said:

Sept 8, 2015 19:03:10 GMT -5 gpw said:

I don't need counter points.  I just have to write an essay about the content and my reaction to it.  Nothing big.  I just was wondering what other people thought.  

This early in the semester and you're already asking CEP to do your homework?

Except I'm not.  What I'm asking here is not anything I have to write about.  

[FloFTW]

I think I fairly high percentage of Americans attend religious services on a regular basis as compared to other countries, in addition to other points in the thread.

[Deleted]

As a lifelong Kansas resident, I'll believe it.

[gpw]

This talk that I had to watch was 1:20. I am never going to get that time back and it pissed me off. Basically this guy advocates for teaching religion in public schools. Not in a proseltyzing way, but in more of a comparative religion type way. Except the majority of his talk was from his Christian bent. And this was at an event that was supposed to be about religious diversity. He challenged the notion that it is unconstitutional to teach religion in public schools and had good law to back it up and that's fine. I don't agree with teaching even a comparative religion class in public schools before college, but hey, you do you. I was just so put off by his, not just Christian, but Protestant, bent.

He spoke about how it was religious people who took relgion out of schools because schools were teaching the Protestant bible and the Catholics didn't want their kids learning from the Protestant bible. "The Catholic bible has quotes in the footnotes from dead people and they didn't want their children learning from a bible that didn't have quotes from dead people in there because how would they know what the passages meant without those quotes?" That really cheesed me off. That is such an obvious Protestant bent.

Bah. I don't think my professor is going to like my essay. It'll be a great way to start the semester.

[msmerymac]

I have heard that the demographics of the US in terms of religion are much more on par with South American than they are with Europe, even the traditionally heavily Catholic countries, like Poland or Italy. I think it's measured by self-identification, but also attendance at services. However, the Mormon church is the fastest growing Christian denomination in the world. Evangelicals are expanding. Islam is also growing. Not sure about Catholic demographics (although there aren't many Americans going into the priesthood), but traditional protestant denominations aren't doing well.

[msmerymac]

Sept 8, 2015 21:34:12 GMT -5 gpw said:

This talk that I had to watch was 1:20. I am never going to get that time back and it pissed me off. Basically this guy advocates for teaching religion in public schools. Not in a proseltyzing way, but in more of a comparative religion type way. Except the majority of his talk was from his Christian bent. And this was at an event that was supposed to be about religious diversity. He challenged the notion that it is unconstitutional to teach religion in public schools and had good law to back it up and that's fine. I don't agree with teaching even a comparative religion class in public schools before college, but hey, you do you. I was just so put off by his, not just Christian, but Protestant, bent.

He spoke about how it was religious people who took relgion out of schools because schools were teaching the Protestant bible and the Catholics didn't want their kids learning from the Protestant bible. "The Catholic bible has quotes in the footnotes from dead people and they didn't want their children learning from a bible that didn't have quotes from dead people in there because how would they know what the passages meant without those quotes?" That really cheesed me off. That is such an obvious Protestant bent.

Bah. I don't think my professor is going to like my essay. It'll be a great way to start the semester.

I wouldn't say it's Protestant, I'd say it's anti-Catholic. And Mormons are no big fans of Catholics. And vice versa, probably. 

[gpw]

Sept 8, 2015 21:54:01 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Sept 8, 2015 21:34:12 GMT -5 gpw said:

This talk that I had to watch was 1:20. I am never going to get that time back and it pissed me off. Basically this guy advocates for teaching religion in public schools. Not in a proseltyzing way, but in more of a comparative religion type way. Except the majority of his talk was from his Christian bent. And this was at an event that was supposed to be about religious diversity. He challenged the notion that it is unconstitutional to teach religion in public schools and had good law to back it up and that's fine. I don't agree with teaching even a comparative religion class in public schools before college, but hey, you do you. I was just so put off by his, not just Christian, but Protestant, bent.

He spoke about how it was religious people who took relgion out of schools because schools were teaching the Protestant bible and the Catholics didn't want their kids learning from the Protestant bible. "The Catholic bible has quotes in the footnotes from dead people and they didn't want their children learning from a bible that didn't have quotes from dead people in there because how would they know what the passages meant without those quotes?" That really cheesed me off. That is such an obvious Protestant bent.

Bah. I don't think my professor is going to like my essay. It'll be a great way to start the semester.

I wouldn't say it's Protestant, I'd say it's anti-Catholic. And Mormons are no big fans of Catholics. And vice versa, probably. 

possibly, but the guy said he was Lutheran

[msmerymac]

Sept 8, 2015 21:55:08 GMT -5 gpw said:

Sept 8, 2015 21:54:01 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

I wouldn't say it's Protestant, I'd say it's anti-Catholic. And Mormons are no big fans of Catholics. And vice versa, probably. 

possibly, but the guy said he was Lutheran

Ah, okay. I was assuming Mormon because I thought you said BYU. Nevermind! Going to bed now!

[LadySusan]

Sept 8, 2015 21:34:12 GMT -5 gpw said:

This talk that I had to watch was 1:20. I am never going to get that time back and it pissed me off. Basically this guy advocates for teaching religion in public schools. Not in a proseltyzing way, but in more of a comparative religion type way. Except the majority of his talk was from his Christian bent. And this was at an event that was supposed to be about religious diversity. He challenged the notion that it is unconstitutional to teach religion in public schools and had good law to back it up and that's fine. I don't agree with teaching even a comparative religion class in public schools before college, but hey, you do you. I was just so put off by his, not just Christian, but Protestant, bent.

He spoke about how it was religious people who took relgion out of schools because schools were teaching the Protestant bible and the Catholics didn't want their kids learning from the Protestant bible. "The Catholic bible has quotes in the footnotes from dead people and they didn't want their children learning from a bible that didn't have quotes from dead people in there because how would they know what the passages meant without those quotes?" That really cheesed me off. That is such an obvious Protestant bent.

Bah. I don't think my professor is going to like my essay. It'll be a great way to start the semester.

Could your essay be something like, "Teaching religion in public schools is an excellent idea.  Religion is an important part of life for X people across the world.  In the United States, X% of people attend religious services regularly.  In practice, it may be not be possible to teach religion in public schools because people are particular.  For example, in the middle of the 20th century, Catholics railed against the version of bible used in class."

[overture]

Sept 8, 2015 18:31:54 GMT -5 gpw said:

I suppose that is true about Asian countries. I think of some European countries and might be a little dubious. I mean, isn't The Church of England an official religion of the UK (or of England)? Germany I think Lutherans....but I see your point when it comes to other European countries (Denmark, Finland, Russia, etc.) There are probably more non religious countries than not in Europe.

A European country having an official religion is more a product of history than a refection of the religious belief of the current population. The US probably would have had one too, were it not for all those Protestant heretics, and if we had broken away before the Enlightenment. The Church of England as a state-sanctioned religion is like the UK having a monarchy - doesn't mean it necessarily has political influence, but still exists for some reason.

[Cicero]

Sept 8, 2015 21:34:12 GMT -5 gpw said:

He spoke about how it was religious people who took relgion out of schools because schools were teaching the Protestant bible and the Catholics didn't want their kids learning from the Protestant bible. "The Catholic bible has quotes in the footnotes from dead people and they didn't want their children learning from a bible that didn't have quotes from dead people in there because how would they know what the passages meant without those quotes?" That really cheesed me off. That is such an obvious Protestant bent.

Say what now? Aside from how ridiculous that sounds, the court cases challenging prayer and the Bilble in public schools were in the early 1960's. The current annotated Catholic Bible (New American Bible) was released in 1970.