How do I get a cat to leave us alone?

[boxerdog]

Oct 20, 2015 19:11:46 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:02:08 GMT -5 boxerdog said:

YES! I feel honored. Even if it is at (partly) (mostly?) my expense.
(wilted)

When you say you're a biologist, does that mean you have a doctorate and have devoted your life to studying the affects cats have on the ecosystem?

Nope, MS

but I have studied and managed endangered bird populations

Why?

[elleblue]

Oct 20, 2015 19:10:12 GMT -5 MrsPotatohead said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:01:51 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Not necessarily endangered* but it does upset the balance and potentially creates shortages for their natural predators such as hawks, owls, etc. Cats kill for sport more than need, so yeah, it's best to keep your pet cats inside and not let them roam. 


*though it's likely there are bird species that are threatened

ok, the only question I have about this and the article posted above is that this type of problem would seem far more serious in rural areas. Either taking away food from predators or decreasing a population (although the article said loss of habitat is a far bigger problem). I'm just trying to parse out the impact of a cat on a habitat in the middle of a city vs. rural area - I get bothered when generalizations are made and data is stretched further than it should to make a point (not saying you specifically are here, but that's why I'm asking).

Well I'm no felinologist, lol, but I have seen hawks hunting in urban areas* so I wouldn't say it's safe to conclude that an outdoor cat has little impact on urban wildlife. 

*anecdotes ftw!

[boxerdog]

Oct 20, 2015 19:10:12 GMT -5 MrsPotatohead said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:01:51 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Not necessarily endangered* but it does upset the balance and potentially creates shortages for their natural predators such as hawks, owls, etc. Cats kill for sport more than need, so yeah, it's best to keep your pet cats inside and not let them roam. 


*though it's likely there are bird species that are threatened

ok, the only question I have about this and the article posted above is that this type of problem would seem far more serious in rural areas. Either taking away food from predators or decreasing a population (although the article said loss of habitat is a far bigger problem). I'm just trying to parse out the impact of a cat on a habitat in the middle of a city vs. rural area - I get bothered when generalizations are made and data is stretched further than it should to make a point (not saying you specifically are here, but that's why I'm asking).

The biggest problem areas for nonnative predators in general are islands.

Urban/suburban areas have smaller fragments of habitat (a different kind of "island"), so nonnative predators can locally have a compounding effect.

I hope I am making sense. I'm not trying to be a douche, I promise

[elleblue]

I want to be clear though, I'm not advocating for the killing of cats, I just wish more pet owners would spay & neuter their cats and keep them inside.

Feral cat populations are an entirely different thing and I won't claim to know the best solution for handling them.

[MrsPotatohead]

Oct 20, 2015 19:17:57 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:10:12 GMT -5 MrsPotatohead said:

ok, the only question I have about this and the article posted above is that this type of problem would seem far more serious in rural areas. Either taking away food from predators or decreasing a population (although the article said loss of habitat is a far bigger problem). I'm just trying to parse out the impact of a cat on a habitat in the middle of a city vs. rural area - I get bothered when generalizations are made and data is stretched further than it should to make a point (not saying you specifically are here, but that's why I'm asking).

Well I'm no felinologist, lol, but I have seen hawks hunting in urban areas so I wouldn't say it's safe to conclude that an outdoor cat has little impact on urban wildlife. 

lol, me neither - I have no idea that they wouldn't impact something because they do kill stuff apparently. I just don't feel *super* sad about pigeons and mice

[waffletime]

Oct 20, 2015 19:30:57 GMT -5 RexManningDay said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:29:37 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Oh, all 3 of mine are fixed and indoors!

One of mine tries reeeeally hard to escape every time a door opens. Not today, motherfucker.

Except for a few weeks ago, I was sitting eating lunch with the baby and H goes "... That's Finley out there. By the fence." Lol! Good thing he's slow.

Mine does this too, but now that we're in a 4th floor apartment, if she manages to get out the door she just stops two feet out and looks around confused because she isn't outdoors, lol.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 20, 2015 19:10:12 GMT -5 MrsPotatohead said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:01:51 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Not necessarily endangered* but it does upset the balance and potentially creates shortages for their natural predators such as hawks, owls, etc. Cats kill for sport more than need, so yeah, it's best to keep your pet cats inside and not let them roam. 


*though it's likely there are bird species that are threatened

ok, the only question I have about this and the article posted above is that this type of problem would seem far more serious in rural areas. Either taking away food from predators or decreasing a population (although the article said loss of habitat is a far bigger problem). I'm just trying to parse out the impact of a cat on a habitat in the middle of a city vs. rural area - I get bothered when generalizations are made and data is stretched further than it should to make a point (not saying you specifically are here, but that's why I'm asking).

Birds are part of every ecosystem. 

[madamecleo]

This thread has evolved into something that I honestly do not know much about, the things I know are 1) I have a PITA cat that is spayed and does not go outside 2) said cat does not kill birds or mice,if she did I would be sad. She does kill spiders, and I am not sad about that. 3) in my community we have both domestic and feral cats that wander, some even onto our deck. 4) Wandering cats, either domestic or feral,make me sad too, there is too much danger out there for them. 5) I admit that I did not realize that the cats are killing the world.

I might not be smart enough for this board and I LOVE CATS. 

[pixy0stix]

Oct 20, 2015 19:41:47 GMT -5 @bonster214 said:

pandorica and boxerdog - unless I missed it, you both are saying that TNR is not the answer, lots of science proving it, but you aren't saying what IS the answer. 

I just read the last page (I KNOW I KNOW!), so forgive me if this has been covered - In general, the ultimate answer is for people to stop letting their cats go unaltered, and to stop letting them outside. That's how feral communities start. Once a population is TNR'd it should eventually die out in a few years (since outdoor cats have an average lifespan of 2-3 years).

So the answer, as always, starts with humans.

[lilafowler]

Oct 20, 2015 19:20:40 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:15:40 GMT -5 boxerdog said:

Nope, MS

but I have studied and managed endangered bird populations

Why?

Why? Just checking the credentials of our resident biologist and ecosystem expert.

I ONLY LISTEN TO PhDS

[pixy0stix]

Oct 20, 2015 19:47:45 GMT -5 mockingbird said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:40:45 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I've been shocked you haven't been in here yet (devil) (heart)

The last time I checked it, it was just hilarious cat gifs!

[pandorica]

Oct 20, 2015 19:41:47 GMT -5 @bonster214 said:

pandorica and boxerdog - unless I missed it, you both are saying that TNR is not the answer, lots of science proving it, but you aren't saying what IS the answer. 

I have a small colony - (2) 6-month olds, mom, and dad - that I have been taking care of for a few months and I don't think that if I took them to the any of the 3 shelters in the area they would euthanize them just because they are feral. 


Completely, 100% off topic, I didn't realize that Toby Zeigler was in The Lost World: Jurassic Park!

boxerdog knows more about this topic than I do, but my solution would be to take them to the shelter if possible and it's something you'd want to do They'd have the possibility of a much better life at least!

[pixy0stix]

Oct 20, 2015 19:48:14 GMT -5 pandorica said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:41:47 GMT -5 @bonster214 said:

pandorica and boxerdog - unless I missed it, you both are saying that TNR is not the answer, lots of science proving it, but you aren't saying what IS the answer. 

I have a small colony - (2) 6-month olds, mom, and dad - that I have been taking care of for a few months and I don't think that if I took them to the any of the 3 shelters in the area they would euthanize them just because they are feral. 


Completely, 100% off topic, I didn't realize that Toby Zeigler was in The Lost World: Jurassic Park!

boxerdog knows more about this topic than I do, but my solution would be to take them to the shelter if possible and it's something you'd want to do They'd have the possibility of a much better life at least!

Do you know how many cats are in the shelter now? The majority of the 10 million animals that are killed every year in shelters are cats.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 20, 2015 19:48:52 GMT -5 @bonster214 said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:45:28 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I just read the last page (I KNOW I KNOW!), so forgive me if this has been covered - In general, the ultimate answer is for people to stop letting their cats go unaltered, and to stop letting them outside. That's how feral communities start. Once a population is TNR'd it should eventually die out in a few years (since outdoor cats have an average lifespan of 2-3 years).

So the answer, as always, starts with humans.

I get that part (the bolded), but they are saying that isn't the answer / doesn't work. Start at page 13 - that's when boxer jumps in.

blergh, ok, I'll be back in a bit.

[scottyderp]

Animals die in the wild, the old-fashioned way, all of the time. It's super-sad, but I'd almost let something feral just do its own thing, it'll never be happy any other way. They don't want to lay with you while you watch ANTM reruns.

[pandorica]

Oct 20, 2015 19:52:10 GMT -5 @bonster214 said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:48:14 GMT -5 pandorica said:

boxerdog knows more about this topic than I do, but my solution would be to take them to the shelter if possible and it's something you'd want to do They'd have the possibility of a much better life at least!

How are they going to have a much better life? They are feral. It's not like mom and dad can become house cats. I have hope for the kittens, though. My plan is TNR, but you both are saying it's not the answer, so what is then? 

Oh, I thought you said you didn't think they would be euthanized, so I assumed that meant they would be adoptable. I read wrong, sorry! I haven't looked at the recent science behind TNR, so I'm staying neutral on that for now, but I would say that's better than nothing

[pixy0stix]

Ok, I get what she's saying. Cats ARE an invasive species. This is where you get a split in the animal community. Those that want to save the animals, and those that want to control the population. While we (general) don't want to think about controlling the population lethally, sometimes it is the answer. There simply are not enough families to adopt all the cats without homes. I'm trying to remember, but I think it's for every man, woman and child in the USA would have to own 10 cats EACH to provide a home for every cat. It's a very large problem.

[atlas]

Oct 20, 2015 19:52:10 GMT -5 @bonster214 said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:48:14 GMT -5 pandorica said:

boxerdog knows more about this topic than I do, but my solution would be to take them to the shelter if possible and it's something you'd want to do They'd have the possibility of a much better life at least!

How are they going to have a much better life? They are feral. It's not like mom and dad can become house cats. I have hope for the kittens, though. My plan is TNR, but you both are saying it's not the answer, so what is then? 

Sic pandorica's neighbor on them.

[pandorica]

Oct 20, 2015 19:56:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Ok, I get what she's saying. Cats ARE an invasive species. This is where you get a split in the animal community. Those that want to save the animals, and those that want to control the population. While we (general) don't want to think about controlling the population lethally, sometimes it is the answer. There simply are not enough families to adopt all the cats without homes. I'm trying to remember, but I think it's for every man, woman and child in the USA would have to own 10 cats EACH to provide a home for every cat. It's a very large problem.

Can I just add that the "control the population" folks also want to save animals... Just the native ones

[pandorica]

Oct 20, 2015 19:58:51 GMT -5 atlas said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:52:10 GMT -5 @bonster214 said:

How are they going to have a much better life? They are feral. It's not like mom and dad can become house cats. I have hope for the kittens, though. My plan is TNR, but you both are saying it's not the answer, so what is then? 

Sick pandorica's neighbor on them.

This is like a bad game of telephone. The ML version.

[scottyderp]

I didn't know this.

[Deleted]

Oct 20, 2015 19:56:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I'm trying to remember, but I think it's for every man, woman and child in the USA would have to own 10 cats EACH to provide a home for every cat.

Sign me up!

[atlas]

Oct 20, 2015 19:59:25 GMT -5 pandorica said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:58:51 GMT -5 atlas said:

Sick pandorica's neighbor on them.

This is like a bad game of telephone. The ML version.

Oct 19, 2015 13:24:03 GMT -5 pandorica said:

Oct 19, 2015 13:16:54 GMT -5 miso said:

Except to scare them with a cage.

/flameful

/but very effective

Most people I know that use a cage then kill them or take them to a shelter. Catch and release isn't flameful! People shouldn't let their cats outside anyways.

[pandorica]

Oct 20, 2015 20:01:00 GMT -5 atlas said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:59:25 GMT -5 pandorica said:

This is like a bad game of telephone. The ML version.

Oct 19, 2015 13:24:03 GMT -5 pandorica said:

Most people I know that use a cage then kill them or take them to a shelter. Catch and release isn't flameful! People shouldn't let their cats outside anyways.

I meant the neighbor part. As far as I know none of my neighbors do this.

[atlas]

Oct 20, 2015 20:01:39 GMT -5 pandorica said:

Oct 20, 2015 20:01:00 GMT -5 atlas said:

I meant the neighbor part. As far as I know none of my neighbors do this.

I apologize that I mistakenly remembered the proximity to you of most of the people you know who trap and kill cats.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 20, 2015 20:00:29 GMT -5 mp said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:56:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Ok, I get what she's saying. Cats ARE an invasive species. This is where you get a split in the animal community. Those that want to save the animals, and those that want to control the population. While we (general) don't want to think about controlling the population lethally, sometimes it is the answer. There simply are not enough families to adopt all the cats without homes. I'm trying to remember, but I think it's for every man, woman and child in the USA would have to own 10 cats EACH to provide a home for every cat. It's a very large problem.

Some of us want both.

I want a world where we prevent needing to kill animals.

Education and spay / neuter. Strange, I may have even founded a nonprofit on it. Har har

LOL! I know, but it's hard to realistically get there if people just aren't aware of the numbers. 

[pixy0stix]

Oct 20, 2015 20:03:02 GMT -5 TR said:

Why doesn't TNR work? Honest question.

I've answered it in part, above. I know I wasn't part of the original argument, so who knows if that's what they'll say.

The other part is that there's no way to know if you've gotten the whole community. Cats are opportunistic breeders. Meaning the female doesn't need to be in heat to get pregnant. Just one female and one male can do this:

[pandorica]

Oct 20, 2015 20:05:21 GMT -5 @bonster214 said:

Oct 20, 2015 20:03:02 GMT -5 TR said:

Why doesn't TNR work? Honest question.

So this is the 3rd? 4th? time the question has been asked and the "experts" still aren't answering the question. pandorica boxerdog

I believe all I've said is that feral cats are bad, I don't know the TNR answers beyond the position statements by orgs like Audubon, Wildlife Society, USFWS (which are against). mp and I talked about her pro TNR info that I thought was interesting. So I don't know the answer!

[pixy0stix]

And, if I may:

[pixy0stix]

To be clear, I'm pro-TNR. I just don't think that's the ultimate solution. I think it's like trying to stop a wave with your hands.