How do I get a cat to leave us alone?

[atlas]

Oct 20, 2015 20:11:31 GMT -5 toledo said:

Can we go back to GIFs?

[boxerdog]

i honestly don't know why TNR doesn't work, but there are multiple studies out there that show that it doesn't remove feral colonies. It might be party because people tend to feed TNR cats, keeping them alive longer.

I wish it did work. I really do. I don't want cats to be euthanized! If there was a way to get them to stop preying on wildlife then I would be all for it.

I just get frustrated with the disconnect between cats and all other invasive species.

[pandorica]

Oct 20, 2015 20:19:36 GMT -5 boxerdog said:

i honestly don't know why TNR doesn't work, but there are multiple studies out there that show that it doesn't remove feral colonies. It might be party because people tend to feed TNR cats, keeping them alive longer.

I wish it did work. I really do. I don't want cats to be euthanized! If there was a way to get them to stop preying on wildlife then I would be all for it.

I just get frustrated with the disconnect between cats and all other invasive species.

Do you have access to the studies? Would you be able to send them (or the citations) to me? I've been lazy in my lit search.

[boxerdog]

Oct 20, 2015 20:00:29 GMT -5 mp said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:56:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Ok, I get what she's saying. Cats ARE an invasive species. This is where you get a split in the animal community. Those that want to save the animals, and those that want to control the population. While we (general) don't want to think about controlling the population lethally, sometimes it is the answer. There simply are not enough families to adopt all the cats without homes. I'm trying to remember, but I think it's for every man, woman and child in the USA would have to own 10 cats EACH to provide a home for every cat. It's a very large problem.

Some of us want both.

I want a world where we prevent needing to kill animals.

Education and spay / neuter. Strange, I may have even founded a nonprofit on it. Har har

I 100% agree with you, I really do. I came across like an ass earlier, but I (in a similar vein) have made it my life's work trying to conserve birds and other wildlife, so this topic is important to me. I don't want birds OR cats to die.

[Nonny]

I like outdoor cats because they keep the bears away.

[CajunShrimp]

[MrsPotatohead]

Oct 20, 2015 19:40:45 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:10:12 GMT -5 MrsPotatohead said:

ok, the only question I have about this and the article posted above is that this type of problem would seem far more serious in rural areas. Either taking away food from predators or decreasing a population (although the article said loss of habitat is a far bigger problem). I'm just trying to parse out the impact of a cat on a habitat in the middle of a city vs. rural area - I get bothered when generalizations are made and data is stretched further than it should to make a point (not saying you specifically are here, but that's why I'm asking).

Birds are part of every ecosystem. 

I know that, but whether it's a problem is different. If you have overpopulation of mice in a city, is it bad that they have a predator? (Very simplified example)

[mountaingirl]

I stopped reading pages ago, but i love you psychos.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 20, 2015 22:51:46 GMT -5 MrsPotatohead said:

Oct 20, 2015 19:40:45 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Birds are part of every ecosystem. 

I know that, but whether it's a problem is different. If you have overpopulation of mice in a city, is it bad that they have a predator? (Very simplified example)

If it's invasive, yes. I mean, if we're going with the simplified version and all.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 20, 2015 22:52:11 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

I am dying at the turn this thread took.

[tamarindy]

boxerdog pandorica

It seems you do not even know what TNR is. Here is how it works where I volunteer:

Feral cats are returned to their colonies, while kittens and, sometimes, more sociable cats are taken in for foster to adopt. Caretakers of the colonies feed the cats 1-2 times a day. These cats eat on a schedule, are vaccinated and spayed/neutered, obviously. Cats in a colony are ear tipped so they are identifiable as members. In the summer, I am caretaker for a colony, registered through the nonprofit, of over 20 cats. The cat population in the area, which is an office park, has been effectively controlled. The cats have a chance to live. The humans, some of whom were poisoning ferals to die a slow and painful death, are satisfied with the efforts at keeping the numbers down and generally respect us because they know what we are doing and why. It's a process to educate. We have had several litters from this group adopted into homes (instead of starving to death, getting hit by cars, killed by assholes like the people you know, etc.) before trapping all of the cats for spay/neuter. It works.

[knx9211]

I thought of this thread this morning when my kitty wouldn't leave me alone while I was trying to get ready. Once I finished, I said "ok! Now I will hold and pet you. Get over here." I picked her up, she wiggled to get free, and ran away.

Cats, man.

[miniroller]

Oct 21, 2015 6:20:06 GMT -5 knx9211 said:

I thought of this thread this morning when my kitty wouldn't leave me alone while I was trying to get ready. Once I finished, I said "ok! Now I will hold and pet you. Get over here." I picked her up, she wiggled to get free, and ran away.

Cats, man.

"Let it be MY choice, dammit!"

[pandorica]

Oct 21, 2015 5:09:57 GMT -5 tamarindy said:

boxerdog pandorica

It seems you do not even know what TNR is. Here is how it works where I volunteer:

Feral cats are returned to their colonies, while kittens and, sometimes, more sociable cats are taken in for foster to adopt. Caretakers of the colonies feed the cats 1-2 times a day. These cats eat on a schedule, are vaccinated and spayed/neutered, obviously. Cats in a colony are ear tipped so they are identifiable as members. In the summer, I am caretaker for a colony, registered through the nonprofit, of over 20 cats. The cat population in the area, which is an office park, has been effectively controlled. The cats have a chance to live. The humans, some of whom were poisoning ferals to die a slow and painful death, are satisfied with the efforts at keeping the numbers down and generally respect us because they know what we are doing and why. It's a process to educate. We have had several litters from this group adopted into homes (instead of starving to death, getting hit by cars, killed by assholes like the people you know, etc.) before trapping all of the cats for spay/neuter. It works.

Is the colony shrinking? I generally know how it works, but I said I don't know the studies on whether it serves to decrease feral cat populations or not.

[1900linden]

I am not quite sure how TNR would eventually not reduce the size of feral cat populations. I don't think I need a study to help me figure that one out. Unless we have more boats of cats coming over introducing themselves to the natives.

and unforch is terrible. really really terrible.

[tamarindy]

Oct 21, 2015 7:12:30 GMT -5 pandorica said:

Oct 21, 2015 5:09:57 GMT -5 tamarindy said:

boxerdog pandorica

It seems you do not even know what TNR is. Here is how it works where I volunteer:

Feral cats are returned to their colonies, while kittens and, sometimes, more sociable cats are taken in for foster to adopt. Caretakers of the colonies feed the cats 1-2 times a day. These cats eat on a schedule, are vaccinated and spayed/neutered, obviously. Cats in a colony are ear tipped so they are identifiable as members. In the summer, I am caretaker for a colony, registered through the nonprofit, of over 20 cats. The cat population in the area, which is an office park, has been effectively controlled. The cats have a chance to live. The humans, some of whom were poisoning ferals to die a slow and painful death, are satisfied with the efforts at keeping the numbers down and generally respect us because they know what we are doing and why. It's a process to educate. We have had several litters from this group adopted into homes (instead of starving to death, getting hit by cars, killed by assholes like the people you know, etc.) before trapping all of the cats for spay/neuter. It works.

Is the colony shrinking? I generally know how it works, but I said I don't know the studies on whether it serves to decrease feral cat populations or not.

Obviously.  The cats are spayed/neutered/vaccinated when they are trapped.  The fewer cats able to reproduce, the fewer members there will be.  Last summer two were hit by vehicles and the other caretaker found another dead in the lot.  I have seen firsthand colonies shrink over the years through TNR efforts.  It's pretty basic math.  Their lives matter to me, as it isn't their fault that they are homeless and feral, so it is worth the time in my day to feed and keep track of them.  

[knx9211]

Murderous beasts!

[Deleted]

Cat colonies just makes me think of cats wearing teeny tiny pioneer costumes.

[Saint Monica]

Oct 20, 2015 19:59:49 GMT -5 scottyderp said:

I didn't know this.

My kitty has this!

[underwaterrhymes]

I miss Bob Barker.

ETA - he's not dead! Why did I think he was dead?

He fell in his home yesterday, though. I don't know if he has cats, but if he does they did not attempt to eat him because he is in stable condition.

www.people.com/article/bob-barker-stable-condition-after-falling

[tictac]

Oct 21, 2015 7:53:20 GMT -5 TR said:

Oct 21, 2015 7:40:22 GMT -5 1900linden said:

I am not quite sure how TNR would eventually not reduce the size of feral cat populations. I don't think I need a study to help me figure that one out. Unless we have more boats of cats coming over introducing themselves to the natives.

and unforch is terrible. really really terrible.

They're coming...

My next door neighbor's indoor/outdoor cat came over from Italy.

He follows me to the mailbox every day to get petted and is BFFs with a squirrel.

My days are numbered, I'm certain of it.

[boxerdog]

Oct 21, 2015 7:45:29 GMT -5 tamarindy said:

Oct 21, 2015 7:12:30 GMT -5 pandorica said:

Is the colony shrinking? I generally know how it works, but I said I don't know the studies on whether it serves to decrease feral cat populations or not.

Obviously.  The cats are spayed/neutered/vaccinated when they are trapped.  The fewer cats able to reproduce, the fewer members there will be.  Last summer two were hit by vehicles and the other caretaker found another dead in the lot.  I have seen firsthand colonies shrink over the years through TNR efforts.  It's pretty basic math.  Their lives matter to me, as it isn't their fault that they are homeless and feral, so it is worth the time in my day to feed and keep track of them.  

I can't believe this thread is still going! I was not going to engage today, but I can't help myself.

I appreciate what you do, really. I think it's awesome that you are finding homes for kittens.

My only issues are- Why is being hit by vehicles preferable to humanely applied euthanasia? I don't think it's worthy of being called a psychopath to not want cats roam freely where they have to deal with a huge number of threats, disease, shortened lifespan, etc.

Oh and I don't have time to do an extensive lit search but here is one article that shows a little bit why it is more complicated than just "basic math" twri.tamu.edu/media/256834/evaluation_of_euthanasia_and_trap_neuter_return__tnr__programs_in_managing_free-roaming_cat_populations.pdf

pandorica @koko

[Bernadine]

Oct 21, 2015 8:23:24 GMT -5 boxerdog said:

Oct 21, 2015 7:45:29 GMT -5 tamarindy said:

Obviously.  The cats are spayed/neutered/vaccinated when they are trapped.  The fewer cats able to reproduce, the fewer members there will be.  Last summer two were hit by vehicles and the other caretaker found another dead in the lot.  I have seen firsthand colonies shrink over the years through TNR efforts.  It's pretty basic math.  Their lives matter to me, as it isn't their fault that they are homeless and feral, so it is worth the time in my day to feed and keep track of them.  

I can't believe this thread is still going! I was not going to engage today, but I can't help myself.

I appreciate what you do, really. I think it's awesome that you are finding homes for kittens.

My only issues are- Why is being hit by vehicles preferable to humanely applied euthanasia? I don't think it's worthy of being called a psychopath to not want cats roam freely where they have to deal with a huge number of threats, disease, shortened lifespan, etc.

Oh and I don't have time to do an extensive lit search but here is one article that shows a little bit why it is more complicated than just "basic math" twri.tamu.edu/media/256834/evaluation_of_euthanasia_and_trap_neuter_return__tnr__programs_in_managing_free-roaming_cat_populations.pdf

pandorica @koko

I mean- squirrels can get hit by vehicles too.  Should we just gather them all up and humanely euthanize them?

Whatever about your other arguments, but that one is just stupid.

[boxerdog]

Oct 21, 2015 8:26:58 GMT -5 Bernadine said:

Oct 21, 2015 8:23:24 GMT -5 boxerdog said:

I can't believe this thread is still going! I was not going to engage today, but I can't help myself.

I appreciate what you do, really. I think it's awesome that you are finding homes for kittens.

My only issues are- Why is being hit by vehicles preferable to humanely applied euthanasia? I don't think it's worthy of being called a psychopath to not want cats roam freely where they have to deal with a huge number of threats, disease, shortened lifespan, etc.

Oh and I don't have time to do an extensive lit search but here is one article that shows a little bit why it is more complicated than just "basic math" twri.tamu.edu/media/256834/evaluation_of_euthanasia_and_trap_neuter_return__tnr__programs_in_managing_free-roaming_cat_populations.pdf

pandorica @koko

I mean- squirrels can get hit by vehicles too.  Should we just gather them all up and humanely euthanize them?

Whatever about your other arguments, but that one is just stupid.

Of course not. But we aren't trapping and neutering squirrels either.

[boxerdog]

Oct 21, 2015 8:39:44 GMT -5 @koko said:

Oct 21, 2015 8:23:24 GMT -5 boxerdog said:

I can't believe this thread is still going! I was not going to engage today, but I can't help myself.

I appreciate what you do, really. I think it's awesome that you are finding homes for kittens.

My only issues are- Why is being hit by vehicles preferable to humanely applied euthanasia? I don't think it's worthy of being called a psychopath to not want cats roam freely where they have to deal with a huge number of threats, disease, shortened lifespan, etc.

Oh and I don't have time to do an extensive lit search but here is one article that shows a little bit why it is more complicated than just "basic math" twri.tamu.edu/media/256834/evaluation_of_euthanasia_and_trap_neuter_return__tnr__programs_in_managing_free-roaming_cat_populations.pdf

pandorica @koko

That article doesn't say that TNR doesn't work. It says that to be more effective, immigration needs to be controlled.

Right. I never said it DOES NOT work, just it is a complicated issue. And that if situations call for euthanasia rather than TNR, those people shouldn't be labeled psychopaths.

The article also talked about issues like, when it becomes known that cats are being fed, people start dumping more cats in, thus keeping the colony going.

It also references a bunch of other studies, but I don't have time to go through them all.

[pixy0stix]

TNR and euthanasia are the opposite faces of the same coin. I'm not sure what ridiculing someone who is willing to talk about the unpleasant side of controlling the feral cat population is going to do. Other than keep on perpetuating the fairy tale (tail) that all cats live glorious lives whether or not they have a family.

[pixy0stix]

And really, I just hate humans who create this problem. So there's that.

[boxerdog]

Oct 21, 2015 8:59:21 GMT -5 @koko said:

Listen, man, you work to save birds. And one of the primary predators of birds is apparently cats. So while I'm sure you think you're being very objective about this, you're not. Cats are killing off what you're trying to protect. You don't want free roaming cats around. You don't think TNR works. That really leaves two options: gather up all the feral cats and give them to shelters, where they will probably be put down because they can't be adopted out. Or gather up all the feral cats and just straight put them down.

You haven't given any other options, other than saying what does work is putting them down and what doesn't work is everything else.

You're right, I'm not as objective about this. But no one else in this thread is, either. If it were any other animal that people are emotionally attached to (hence, the python example), then nobody would have a problem with euthanasia.
 
Also, saying studies have shown something =/= saying something is fact. I tried really hard to make that distinction. There are studies going both ways- but it has been accepted as fact that TNR works by a lot of people in this thread. And that using any other method makes one a "psychopath".

[jojoandleo]

Oct 21, 2015 8:45:57 GMT -5 boxerdog said:

Oct 21, 2015 8:39:44 GMT -5 @koko said:

That article doesn't say that TNR doesn't work. It says that to be more effective, immigration needs to be controlled.

Right. I never said it DOES NOT work, just it is a complicated issue. And that if situations call for euthanasia rather than TNR, those people shouldn't be labeled psychopaths.

The article also talked about issues like, when it becomes known that cats are being fed, people start dumping more cats in, thus keeping the colony going.

It also references a bunch of other studies, but I don't have time to go through them all.

I am pretty sure the only people being called psychos were the people pandorica said TRAPPED AND KILLED (she thinks by shooting, but who the fuck knows) CATS THEMSELVES. She did not say they were taking cats to the shelter. And Euthanasia is not always this painless death depending on where you take the animal. So, yeah. I don't recall people being all "ANYONE WHO EUTHANISES IS A PSYCHO!" I do think taking a cat's life on your own without the veterinarian background to do it humanely is psycho. And not someone I would boast as being friends with.

If I am wrong and people think All those who euthanize are psycho, I apologize. I do think people prefer TNR to euthanasia. Which I understand. but the psycho part is being conflated with another issue.

[boxerdog]

Oct 21, 2015 9:10:05 GMT -5 @koko said:

Oct 21, 2015 9:05:28 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

TNR and euthanasia are the opposite faces of the same coin. I'm not sure what ridiculing someone who is willing to talk about the unpleasant side of controlling the feral cat population is going to do. Other than keep on perpetuating the fairy tale (tail) that all cats live glorious lives whether or not they have a family.

Dude, if you're going to say that you never said TNR doesn't work, then you should probably make sure you actually said TNR doesn't work.  And you can't get mad when people are all aflutter about you thinking killing cats is an acceptable option when you do, in fact, think killing cats is an acceptable option.  And if you don't think TNR works, then you think it's the ONLY option, unless you offer up something else, which hasn't be done yet.

I don't know of anything else! Aside from going back in time and making everyone spay and neuter their animals and not dump them. I wish I had a solution!

And I am going to bow out now. No one is going to change anyone's mind at this point.