SC School Resource Officer Body Slams Student (VIP)

[blacksred]

Bottom line a grown a$$ man threw a teenage girl across the room.

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[iammalcolmx]

OK so the responses here make it clear I don't need to watch this.

[josieposy]

He's in the middle of a second lawsuit and nobody at the dept is raising eyebrows?

[orangeblossom]

I have to look for it, but I posted a Baltimore Sun op-Ed awhile back, after another video of a resource officer acted like they fighting in the street, from an attorney that worked with students arrested for ridiculous infractions like writing on a desk, sassy mouth, etc and how it can irreparably damage kids school careers.

Also, she talked about about the general presence of the officers just creating a tense atmosphere, and. Holding a distrust of officers early on.

I'm sure, sadly, some schools can benefit from a resource officer, but I would think most don't.

[summer]

Let me bring A Time To Kill in here: Imagine this girl was a little White blonde thing.

This is sickening!

[cinnamoncox0]

Oct 26, 2015 19:21:54 GMT -5 orangeblossom said:

Oct 26, 2015 19:13:48 GMT -5 gazpacho said:

This is local to me and I know some of the admin at this particular school. The SILENCE of those students is seriously distressing to me. It reflects the larger dynamic of this school and so many others.

Yes, it's downright scar, because you know if this was something out of the ordinary students would have been screaming and what not.

One of the posts I sw, said this officer had been terrrizing students for years. Who knows how true this is, but based on the quietness of students, it seems likely.

I saw a lot of this in articles on Twitter last night. There seems to be a lot of people/students that he's basically assaulted over the years.
The students are afraid of him. If he does that to a female I can't imagine the fate of one of the male students had he tried to help her, or at least spoken up.
Cop was saying "you're gonna answer me"
That was harder to watch than I thought he was so so rough she was like the proverbial rag doll.
Any injuries? I will google

[cinnamoncox0]

Oct 27, 2015 5:27:10 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Oct 26, 2015 19:02:35 GMT -5 socratic said:

I missed that part

And I just heard on the news that another girl was arrested for trying to intervene.

I don't know what resource officers are supposed to do. I never went to a school with one. But this doesn't seem necessary. But I also know cameras only come out when the officer is doing wrong and never show what led up to it. So again I Ann going to wait for more info.

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There's a SRO at my son's HS. He's there to be the face of the dept, of course first response to any incident, be chummy and friendly with the students, and offer help to families who may need it.
If he body slammed anyone, male or female, for any reason other than to save his own or someone else's life, I would be at that school and or local PD until he was removed.
Talk about leaving a horrible lasting impression on these students. I'm sure that will help thm trust and respect police.

[gazpacho]

Oct 27, 2015 7:31:11 GMT -5 summer said:

Let me bring A Time To Kill in here: Imagine this girl was a little White blonde thing.

This is sickening!

I was JUST about to post this! I've been having this discussion ALL morning. People who should know better saying "well, she was out of line". They KNOW GOOD AND WELL that they would not co-sign on this for their child. The "Time to Kill" closing argument keeps popping into my head.

[earlgreyhot]

Oct 27, 2015 7:06:32 GMT -5 blacksred said:

Bottom line a grown a$$ man threw a teenage girl across the room.

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Basically.

Like, maybe the teenager was being impossibly bratty and disruptive. Maybe she had pissed the teacher and the officer off. But for fucks sake....BE THE ADULT.

And fuck all the fuckers who are all "she needed to be taught respect" or some shit. 

[downtoearth]

This whole incident is fucking ridiculous! Fire that stupid, insolent cop! There was no reason and this is just attacking a minor IMO!!

ETA: Oh and I'm glad that the school district has "banned" Fields from the school properties and that he is under investigation by the Feds.

[pixy0stix]

When a kid pushes your buttons that much, you walk away. WALK AWAY.

[orriskitten]

Oct 27, 2015 6:00:45 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Oct 27, 2015 5:01:23 GMT -5 orriskitten said:

It makes me feel things because in my high school, there were definitely cases of violence by adults towards kids. I was in the mediation class who handled conflict resolution to try to lessen the amount of suspensions by getting kids and sometimes adults to sign contracts. After confrontations, kids would go to the office and then come to us. Some were still in a state, some were brought in a few days later. We heard a lot of stories.

We had a tough assistant principal who had really whipped the school into shape in the couple of years before I started there (got rid of a huge gang presence and a huge amount of drug deals), so she was known to be a hard ass. So the SROs would get violent and sometimes teachers, too.

I never realized this was wrong.

I mean, logically, I must have known, but it was so ingrained that this could all be avoided if you do what you're told.

This video brought up a lot of things for me that I need to think about.

Thank you for sharing and being willing to examine the actions.

I will say my frustration, not at you but general frustration, is the mental gymnastics that adults can get violent towards students as a justification for cracking down and cleaning up a school. Violence by kids is wrong. Violence by adults towards kids...also wrong.

I'm right there with you being frustrated. It just didn't occur to me that things like this were not the norm in high schools for some reason. Which is very narrow minded. I was in an over crowded high school and it just became normal. We didn't have camera phones to capture things going on, but I can't say I was surprised that the classmates didn't speak up.

I agree with you that adults have no right to use violence as a means to control children. No right whatsoever. What is striking me is that as a child, I was taught in a school setting that this is to be expected if someone "acts out," and that is not okay. As an adult I'd never ever think to use violence. It is all just so wrong on so many levels.

Also, my school's motto was "no exceptions, no excuses," which just adds to the ick factor.

[nikki25]

I would burn shit down if any grown man touched my daughter, let alone being thrown against a wall.

The other kids didn't even flinch, especially the kid sitting next to her with his arms crossed. And, the fact that the ONE person who defended her was arrested has affects on anyone about getting involved. Stand-up for what is right, get arrested; keep shut, carry-on with your day. A choice that should never have to be decided.

So fucked up and i hope she sues the fuck out of that school for employing this piece of shit.

[cookiemdough]

Oct 27, 2015 10:04:01 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Oct 27, 2015 5:54:52 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

I am still trying to understand the arrest for something nonviolent.

You can be arrested even if it is nonviolent. There are tons of arrestable charges that don't include violence.

Oct 27, 2015 5:56:27 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

$10,000 bail for talking on a cellphone and then refusing to leave a classroom?

I am sure there is an assaulting police officer charge somewhere in there that would account for the high bond. And APO doesn't always have to be physical assault. 

I don't doubt you can be arrested for something nonviolent in general, but I don't think that an arrest for nonviolent classroom management issues is appropriate. I think you addressed it in your other thread with regard to whether it makes sense to even call an SRO in that situation.

[orangeblossom]

pennypenny I don't know what the answer is, but I think it boils down to what you said, that the SEO shouldn't have been called, and thatcher have to look at how do we handle children/students

I don't think it should have been allowe to go on forever, but short of her physically assaulting him, I don't think it should have required that amount of physicality, if any.

I mean you have children being arrested for defacing state property (I.e., writing on a desk)

Where does it stop? The pendulum has fun too far, IMO.

[earlgreyhot]

Oct 27, 2015 11:20:17 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

A friend of a friend made a very good point about this incident and it elaborates kinda on what I was saying upthread.

The function of the police is to prevent crime and enforce laws. The girl broke no laws. Therefore, the police never should have been called in the first place. The school should have had a better process in place than to call the police and hopefully arrest this girl for a temper tantrum. The issue is that we have taken all the power from everyone else. The kids are unruly. The teachers can barely defend themselves from an attack. So we call the police to handle a non-police matter.

The SRO should have never been called to handle this situation. The teacher should have been able to handle it and for a variety of reasons couldn't or wouldn't. So then you call in an officer to handle a non-police matter. This happens all the damn time by the way. Not just in schools.

Now here is my question and I haven't seen anyone able to give an answer. So you call the police to handle this situation. Now your classroom is being disrupted. The officer asks her several times to get up and leave the room. She refuses. They are now at a standoff. How long do you let the standoff go on? What should the officer have done in your opinion? He has been called to the classroom to handle this situation. Should he just leave? Continue asking her and she continues to refuse? Then what?

I am not saying that his actions were justified at all. And if half of that article posted is true he should not have been a police officer let alone one in schools. But say it wasn't this guy, with this history. What is the appropriate response here? Should he just say this isn't a police matter and then leave?

This was basically a standoff. I think the SRO's job would be to make sure she didn't further escalate or become violent, but not to get escalate the standoff and become violent because it's obvious this infraction didn't deserve it.

I think the adult thing to do would be to give her an out. She'd basically dug herself into a hole, and everyone felt backed into a corner. Flight or flight was kicking in. Maybe they could have laid her options on the table. "You get up and come with me now and you get a zero for the day accept consequence X. You get up when you choose and you accept greater consequence X. Either way, you will be quiet.

And if force was ultimately needed, then pick the fucking desk up and move it that way. Maybe it takes longer and is definitely absurd, but so is her behavior. ETA: What he did was out of frustration and anger...not seeking  constructive solution.

[orangeblossom]

Oct 27, 2015 11:45:02 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Oct 27, 2015 11:35:08 GMT -5 orangeblossom said:

pennypenny I don't know what the answer is, but I think it boils down to what you said, that the SEO shouldn't have been called, and thatcher have to look at how do we handle children/students

I don't think it should have been allowe to go on forever, but short of her physically assaulting him, I don't think it should have required that amount of physicality, if any.

I mean you have children being arrested for defacing state property (I.e., writing on a desk)

Where does it stop? The pendulum has fun too far, IMO.

I agree.

But I honestly think the only way he would have been able to get her out of the classroom was to physically remove her. Now if the students weren't already afraid of him maybe he would have been able to talk her out of the room, but given the dynamics I don't think that was going to happen. Ever. So did he have to throw her desk and all that? No. But whatever he did would not have looked good on camera. I can assure you that. 

I was thinking about this on my way home from class, and was wondering what made her not listen was this the norm for her or was it that she herself has been bullied by him, and/or other classmates and was taking a stand.

I know teenagers can be a handful, but based on the way other stdients were acting, to me, says there's a lot of history that's induced fear into these students.

[earlgreyhot]

Oct 27, 2015 11:51:53 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

But earlgreyhot, given the obvious dynamic between the students and the SRO (I mean they look terrified), I don't think offering alternatives would have worked. And honestly, that is what the damn teacher should have done instead of call the SRO.

Oh, yes, there is clearly a great deal of backstory what led to this standoff.

I guess what the officer should have done in THIS situation would have been call for assistance in physically removing the entire desk, her in it. Never purposely laying a hand on her, throw some towels under the legs and slide it out the door.

[shauni27]

My jaw is on the floor. I don't care if she was a disrespectful, snotty teen not paying attention and disrupting class. What the actual fuck?! So you take away her phone and make her sit there silently. She seemed to be pretty quiet. If the teacher had moved on and just ignored her bad behavior, my guess is it would have fizzled out quickly.

[orriskitten]

I think there could have been more actions that the teacher took. But I don't know the story of why they needed o call someone in, so I will leave that.

I think in situations like this a kid could need to be physically removed, but not like that. I'm almost positive that should the SRO have just held her arm and guided her up, that would have gone much differently. The guy looked like he pounced her. No matter the verbal escalation that may have been missed, he should have been escorting her from the room, not physically throwing her. This guy is clearly missing some training or is just too on edge to be doing this job or a bit of both.

[blink]

Pushing her desk out of the room would have produced a better situation than what this guy did.

If she wasn't being loud and disruptive, they could have just waited her out. She would have gotten up eventually.

As a non-teacher, non-parent I don't know what the norm is, but the scenario of a student/kid who won't listen and is not deterred by losing privileges, etc. is not some new phenomena. What do rational, non-asshole people do? Because arresting kids for non-violent, school related infractions is bullshit.

[cinnamoncox0]

Oct 27, 2015 10:45:01 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

When a kid pushes your buttons that much, you walk away. WALK AWAY.

Exactly. Not everyone is cut out for dealing with teens. He's clearly the wrong cop for SRO

pennypenny
I agree this should've been handled by school not have officer involved. Call guidance or the parents if she's non compliant with guidance
The SRO should've said its not a police matter, but it seems it escalated too quickly. And this particular officer should NOT be a SRO, but a good one, IMO, should know when to say they're not needed for a particular incident.
He threw her. I can't think of a scenario where what he was the correct response.

[cinnamoncox0]

I'll also say the SRO at my sons HS is much older. He's a long time officer, has roots in the community, and has a lot of experience. he's abput mid 50's. So I think maybe that's a better fit than a younger in the trenches so to speak, officer.
He is there for large issues and also he's a friendly face for the students. Help instill trust in police etc. he doesn't go around acting tough and authoritarian, he is chummy with them.
Ds has been in HS for three years and I'm up there a decent amount so I see his interactions he's not like a guard but a safety presence
Ds has actually told me he feels safer bc he's there
That is how it should be.

[Deleted]

I keep coming back to this. I used to work with "at risk" kids and I've had some threaten me and there were times that I wanted to flip and I still can't imagine using this kind of force. That officer has no right to handle a kid in this way. NONE. It's really sad that the other kids knew to do nothing.

[nsl]

No matter what the student did before the video, this is a failed interaction. Period. That girl will never be able to attend that class again without shutting down because of what happened. Her classmates won't forget this, and their learning (not to mention their emotional health and any sense of trust they had in that teacher) will be negatively impacted.

There were days when I wanted to scream at a kid, and there were days when I wished I could have forced one of them to do something. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. Not only is it horribly abusive, but it doesn't fucking work in the long run. The only things that work are patience and an ability to see past a short-term behavior issue and focus on developing long-term relationships with kids that (fairly quickly, in my experience) deter the short-term crap completely.

The SRO's behavior is beyond the pale, but I'm giving that teacher a major side-eye as well for calling him into the classroom in the first place. You lose everything the second you do that when there isn't something serious like a fistfight actively happening.

[orangeblossom]

Longer video at this link. 

www.wltx.com/story/news/local/2015/10/26/spring-valley-high-school-incident/74645568/

[darthnbjenni]

Oct 27, 2015 17:30:17 GMT -5 nsl said:

No matter what the student did before the video, this is a failed interaction. Period. That girl will never be able to attend that class again without shutting down because of what happened. Her classmates won't forget this, and their learning (not to mention their emotional health and any sense of trust they had in that teacher) will be negatively impacted.

There were days when I wanted to scream at a kid, and there were days when I wished I could have forced one of them to do something. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. Not only is it horribly abusive, but it doesn't fucking work in the long run. The only things that work are patience and an ability to see past a short-term behavior issue and focus on developing long-term relationships with kids that (fairly quickly, in my experience) deter the short-term crap completely.

The SRO's behavior is beyond the pale, but I'm giving that teacher a major side-eye as well for calling him into the classroom in the first place. You lose everything the second you do that when there isn't something serious like a fistfight actively happening.

I've had to call admin into my classroom before. If it's something like a kid refusing to work and grossly disrupting the other 29 kids, causing a ruckus (most likely because they're on drugs), I send an email or text to my grade level admin and they come in. For fights or emergencies (which, in my 12 years at my school, I've seen like 3 on our hallway), I have a red panic button and every admin and the SRO rushes in. I have to say, our SRO is amazing. We had a real shit head "cop" cop (cop 'stache and all) who was there and barked at the kids years ago. Our current SRO fosters relationships with kids he sees struggling. He works with them starting in 6th grade, and offers incentives to those who came to our school in trouble (like getting the PTA and his PD to sponsor funds for trips to Washington, DC). If you're going to place cops in a school environment, send in your best hostage negotiators and those that can empathize, not attack dogs. 

[nsl]

Oct 27, 2015 18:40:32 GMT -5 darthnbjenni said:

Oct 27, 2015 17:30:17 GMT -5 nsl said:

No matter what the student did before the video, this is a failed interaction. Period. That girl will never be able to attend that class again without shutting down because of what happened. Her classmates won't forget this, and their learning (not to mention their emotional health and any sense of trust they had in that teacher) will be negatively impacted.

There were days when I wanted to scream at a kid, and there were days when I wished I could have forced one of them to do something. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. Not only is it horribly abusive, but it doesn't fucking work in the long run. The only things that work are patience and an ability to see past a short-term behavior issue and focus on developing long-term relationships with kids that (fairly quickly, in my experience) deter the short-term crap completely.

The SRO's behavior is beyond the pale, but I'm giving that teacher a major side-eye as well for calling him into the classroom in the first place. You lose everything the second you do that when there isn't something serious like a fistfight actively happening.

I've had to call admin into my classroom before. If it's something like a kid refusing to work and grossly disrupting the other 29 kids, causing a ruckus (most likely because they're on drugs), I send an email or text to my grade level admin and they come in. For fights or emergencies (which, in my 12 years at my school, I've seen like 3 on our hallway), I have a red panic button and every admin and the SRO rushes in. I have to say, our SRO is amazing. We had a real shit head "cop" cop (cop 'stache and all) who was there and barked at the kids years ago. Our current SRO fosters relationships with kids he sees struggling. He works with them starting in 6th grade, and offers incentives to those who came to our school in trouble (like getting the PTA and his PD to sponsor funds for trips to Washington, DC). If you're going to place cops in a school environment, send in your best hostage negotiators and those that can empathize, not attack dogs. 

Calling in admin is totally different from calling in an SRO.  And the more I think about this, the more I 110% agree with what I bolded in your post.  SROs need to engage in community policing--developing relationships within a school community, particularly with those members who are in the most vulnerable positions. 

[heyjude]

OMG I JUST SAW THIS VIDEO!!!

RAGE!!!!!!!!!

[gazpacho]

So, the sheriff said THIS earlier today--that the officer has been dating a Black woman.  *sigh* I'm sure the "He has Black friends" comment is coming up next.