s/o Dealbreakers

[beebeeeater]

Something tarpon said regarding dealbreakers in the aprilmaple post gave me pause and I think we should discuss it in a separate post. Here's the part I want you to read:

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"In addition to discussing the essentials before you are married --- sex, religion, money --- you should also let him know what you consider to be dealbreakers: in other words, one or more of these and endgame, period, no discussion.

Adultery, drug use, alcohol abuse, abuse of any kind (verbal and/or physical) inappropriate "friendships" with anybody at all female or male (this would also include too too too much time spent with friends; you're married; a guy's night out is great, but NOT excessive time spent with a friend or friends) and not putting YOU first in any and all situations.

These are to name a few dealbreakers."
****

Do you agree with all of these being dealbreakers? As in, the end, period, no more chances, your shit's on the porch dealbreakers? I don't. For example, alcohol abuse? I don't think you leave somebody because they're an addict, especially if they are in the process of trying to get help. Obviously if they're putting their fist (or your face) through a wall, getting fired from their job, in trouble with the law, etc. then yes, I'm peacing out. However, if someone is a functioning alcoholic I don't know if that's reason to leave. Especially if they successfully clean up their act.

How about you, TIP? Tell me what your dealbreakers are.

[Deleted]

Cheating (which to me includes inappropriate relationships but only of a sexual nature - too much time with friends can be fixed), any and all abuse. I wouldn't leave someone for the beginning stages of an addiction. I would definitely try to help that person out. At the point where they made it clear that they'd chosen their addiction over me though, I'd be out. For example, someone sliding in to regular alcohol abuse is able to be rehabed, but when he tells me to mind my own business and continues the downward spiral, I'm not sticking around until we hit the bottom.

Also, not putting me first in any and all situations. That is something that is far too cut and dry as stated. If his mother needs him to drive her to an unexpected doctor visit and we have a date night planned, for example, I would probably leave him if he DID put our relationship first.

ETA: I keep needing to clarify. Brain is not at full speed yet.

[Deleted]

It's hard for me to say XYZ are dealbreakers because in certain situations, maybe they might not be. Not all situations are the same and warrent the same behavior. I think it would be a dealbreaker for me if my spouse did anything that in anyway was disrespectful to me and couldn't change the behavior. I'm not saying that I would stay with someone who cheated, because I probably wouldn't. I think once the trust/respect has been broken in a relationship, it is hard to repair.

[gbck]

I think 'before marriage' dealbreakers are different than 'after marriage' dealbreakrs.

I'm married to a man who abused alcohol and drugs during our marriage, who screwed up royally with $ and his business [which no longer exists] during this period, and who was suicidal. None of those things were 'dealbreakers'--BUT, if, when we were first dating, He'd been stealing my vicoden and washing it down with vodka? yeah--I'd have been history. If he hadn't gotten help for all of those things? yeah--I'd have been history (hence the conversation of "look, either you sign yourself into the psych ward or I sign you in against your will. Those are your choices dude")

I'm also married to a man who did the "yes, I want kids--oh wait, no I don't." Not agreeing on kids/no kids would have been a pre-marriage dealbreaker. After marriage, it was a hard row to hoe but...it never threatened 'dealbreaker'.

I'm married to a man who has a different view of religion than I do. His were much mroe in line w/ mine when we got married. Not a dealbreaker. Pre-marraige? eh, it may have been.


I do tink if he cheated, I'd be hard pressed to even consider staying.
I know that my list of 'would have been dealbreakers' above makes it look like he did a bait-n-switch (he didn't) and makes it look like we're ill matched (eh, maybe), and that I deal w/ a lot of crap (eh, not really. He probably deals w/ more than I do on every issue except $). It's not as bleak as it looks or as black and white/cut and dry as it sounds.

[ECB]

One thing I've learned in life is to never say never. We can all come up w/ our lists, and I'm sure that some things truly are dealbreakers to some people. But it's easy to talk in absolutes when they are only ideas out there but not reality. Reality and actually LIVING through a "dealbreaker" can be very different from a black and white list. There are circumstances and feelings that can change your outlook.

[Chirp]

Cheating of any sort (includes inappropriate relationships because IMO that sounds like an emotional affair), drug use, alcohol abuse, and abuse of any kind are instant dealbreakers. Those are no joke, I'm out the door, do not pass go, do not collect $200, we're done, don't even try to apologize dealbreakers.

That's right. Alcohol abuse is in there. H knows this. I have far too many alcoholics and drug users in my family and I've had to put up with that bullshit for long enough. I've watched people go through medical detox and rehab. It's not pretty. At all. Alcohol is fine in moderation. If the alcohol becomes more imporant than everything else... I'm out.

Anything else is difficult to say it's a end-game dealbreaker. It depends on the circumstances and if change is willing to be made.

[beebeeeater]

May 17, 2012 7:35:20 GMT -5 ECB said:

One thing I've learned in life is to never say never. We can all come up w/ our lists, and I'm sure that some things truly are dealbreakers to some people. But it's easy to talk in absolutes when they are only ideas out there but not reality. Reality and actually LIVING through a "dealbreaker" can be very different from a black and white list. There are circumstances and feelings that can change your outlook.

See, I am inclined to agree with this. There are exceptions to most rules in my rule book.

[Muddled]

I agree with GBCK. The dealbreakers are different before marriage and after marriage.

We have discussed our dealbreakers. They all boil down to not respecting the other person. Anything that causes me to disrespect him is a dealbreaker. Anything that he does that disrespects me is a dealbreaker. And vice versa.

Of course, this is speaking in broad general strokes, but that's where it all goes.

[interro]

May 17, 2012 7:27:19 GMT -5 gbck said:

I think 'before marriage' dealbreakers are different than 'after marriage' dealbreakrs.

Totally this.

If I started dating Mr. Bang and found out a month in that he was an alcoholic and addicted to drugs, not taking care of his kid, having inappropriate "friendships" or other relationships w/other women, etc. - done. Out.

But if we get married and problems arise and we can legitimately rebuild from them, I can't say with 100% certainty what would, at that point, become the dealbreaker.

With XH it was financial stuff coupled with the fact that we were just incompatible. But the financial dishonesty was what really broke the marriage. It should have been a before-marriage dealbreaker but I was a blind beebee.

Ultimately, what constitutes a dealbreaker for me is the destruction of the trust on which our relationship is built, and there are many things that could destroy that trust, but I think it would be less cut-and-dried than putting his shit on the porch with no further discussion or chances to reconcile once we were married.

[datsyuksmommy]

Cheating (including emotional affairs) are a total dealbreaker for me and for him. We both stated that in the very beginning of our relationship. DH likes to play video games, but I told him flat out in the beginning that if he were to ignore me or responsibilities to play the game we would have a problem. He got a very serious talking-to the time that I was naked and it took him another 40 minutes to quit playing. He doesn't make that mistake anymore.

If he started abusing alcohol or drugs, he would have one chance to get and stay clean. If he messed up again, I'd be done. Abuse of any kind is a dealbreaker, and if we had kids I would expect him to be in counseling if he wanted any kind of visitation.

[smock]

I think it's hard to make a solid list because his reaction would be a huge deciding factor for a lot of these issues. If he starts abusing alcohol, we talk about it, and he instantly starts working to change, not a dealbreaker. If he threw a hissy-fit, grabbed a bottle of vodka, locked himself in the bathroom and shouted "neener neener, I can't hear you, I love vodka," then there'd be a major problem.

But then there are issues where regardless of his reaction, I wouldn't be able to forgive: for me, that would be cheating and abuse.

[Muddled]

GOod point, Smock, regarding the reaction. It's true. There are a lot of things that are ultimately a dealbreaker that you get a chance to fix.

[Deleted]

I think reaction is key in the inappropriate relationships aspect.

I also agree that my premarriage dealbreakers are more hardline than my post ones.

[elleb]

May 17, 2012 7:35:20 GMT -5 ECB said:

One thing I've learned in life is to never say never. We can all come up w/ our lists, and I'm sure that some things truly are dealbreakers to some people. But it's easy to talk in absolutes when they are only ideas out there but not reality. Reality and actually LIVING through a "dealbreaker" can be very different from a black and white list. There are circumstances and feelings that can change your outlook.

I agree with this, and I agree that respect is what it all comes down to. Case in point - STBXH. I forgave a cheating incident a few years ago when we were dating, which I wouldn't have thought I could get past, because he was sorry and all that shit. Fast forward to now, and I can't forgive the things he's said and the way he treats me. It's really opened my eyes to how little he respects me.

In retrospect though, I'm 99.9% sure I just overlooked all of the glaring red flags and that he's never respected me. Maybe I just never respected myself enough before now to realize it. There's a thought.

[datsyuksmommy]

May 17, 2012 9:04:33 GMT -5 elleb said:

May 17, 2012 7:35:20 GMT -5 ECB said:

One thing I've learned in life is to never say never. We can all come up w/ our lists, and I'm sure that some things truly are dealbreakers to some people. But it's easy to talk in absolutes when they are only ideas out there but not reality. Reality and actually LIVING through a "dealbreaker" can be very different from a black and white list. There are circumstances and feelings that can change your outlook.

I agree with this, and I agree that respect is what it all comes down to. Case in point - STBXH. I forgave a cheating incident a few years ago when we were dating, which I wouldn't have thought I could get past, because he was sorry and all that shit. Fast forward to now, and I can't forgive the things he's said and the way he treats me. It's really opened my eyes to how little he respects me.

In retrospect though, I'm 99.9% sure I just overlooked all of the glaring red flags and that he's never respected me. Maybe I just never respected myself enough before now to realize it. There's a thought.

And that's the key to healthy relationships, methinks.

[elleb]

Agreed.

[bowies]

Before I got married the only dealbreakers I had were lawbreaking, abuse, and cheating. I blindly thought that anything else would be workable because we'd mutually be working on them as partners. I was kinda wrong in that assumption.

My dealbreakers remain lawbreaking, abuse, and cheating (more so now than ever), and I've added selfishness to that. Not so much in the "this is mah cookie" way, but in the "I'll do what I want so fuck off" kinda way. I absolutely require a partner, and if someone doesn't want to put any effort into being one to me, then I'm outtie.

[Deleted]

This topic is very relevant to my life right now. I fully agree with both before/after deal breakers being different and "never say never." I would also add that things change when children are involved. Not to say anyone should become a doormat or "stay together for the kids," but there is certainly more to consider in a split with children.

For me the *real* deal breakers are lying and disregarding me and our children repeatedly and purposefully. The example of new addiction and one-time cheating applies here in terms of how it's handled after the problem starts.

Several of the listed deal-breakers are present in my marriage right now. BUT there is effort on both of our parts to improve our situation. Much of his behavior is out of his control thanks to brain injury but that doesn't give him (or me) any kind of free pass.

[wrathofkuus]

I actually agree that those should probably be after-marriage dealbreakers, all of them. And I don't think that before marriage and after marriage should be any different, dealbreaker-wise. It's a matter of what's in it for me, and how much he brings to the table, and if he's a worthy mate for me.

That's all in theory, of course. In practice, I can see why a lot of things might not be dealbreakers. They still should be, but it is a big damn hassle to get out of a marriage, especially if you own joint property and have kids together. I can totally see why people might feel deep down that being only mediocrely meh rather than truly happy forever is more tolerable than a great big expensive dramatic hassle.

[Deleted]

I think all of those things are dealbreakers in the sense that if you don't fix this shiit, you're out sort of way. Or if you don't understand and agree why I think it's a deal breaker, you're out.

But some of them just don't seem like things you immediately light someone's shit on fire for, kwim?

[wrathofkuus]

Exactly. Well, some are immediate, but if the two of you realize that he's spending a little too much time with friends and decide to have more date nights or whatever, or after an operation he realizes that he's having trouble coming off of the pain pills, then I don't think running for the hills makes a lot of sense.

[imoan]

Lack of respect is a dealbreaker for me. Whether that comes in the form of cheating, verbal/emotional/physical abuse, etc...

I would not leave H if he ended up with an addiction. I have lots of experience with that and know it's a disease. I would do everything in my power to get H help. I think addiction would become a dealbreaker if H decided not to help himself. If he refused counseling, NA, etc. Then, after awhile, addiction would become a dealbreaker.

[Deleted]

I guess it depends on what the addiction is to.

For instance, if mr man showed up with a magic meth addiction, I can't see myself working through that because WHAT THE HELL POSSESSED HIM TO TRY METH, FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!

[Muddled]

I look at it this way.

If a guy puts his mom/family before me while we are dating, that's acceptable, normal, and even preferrable. They are family. They are a permanent part of his life. I may not be. The longer we have been dating, the more serious we get, the less okay it gets. It becomes a dealbreaker around engagement time.

If a guy I am dating has a problem with drugs or alcohol, I am not going to sign up for a life of that shit. I am out the door. If my husband develops a problem, I am going to work with him on it. If the problem continues or he doesn't want to work on it, then it becomes a dealbreaker.

It's a continuum in a way. People's behavior needs to adapt to the situation. If it doesn't, you re-evaluate.

[Muddled]

May 17, 2012 11:58:58 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

Exactly. Well, some are immediate, but if the two of you realize that he's spending a little too much time with friends and decide to have more date nights or whatever, or after an operation he realizes that he's having trouble coming off of the pain pills, then I don't think running for the hills makes a lot of sense.

I feel like this is the same thing that people have been saying. You identify the problem, you try to fix it. If he is not up for working on your partnership, then you head for the hills. No need while he's making a discernable effort.

With notable exceptions, of course.

[broc]

Cheating and beating me are the 2 majors where I would be out the door within minutes. Beyond that, it's situational imo.

[kellbell191]

I'll dispute the original premise that you should have to discuss dealbreakers. The real dealbreakers are things DH and I never flat out discussed. They're dealbreakers because they are so deeply against my values and I wanted someone with the same values; if I had to explain to you why it was an issue that would be a dealbreaker in and of itself. We did talk early on that if either of us cheated, we want the other to come clean and just end the relationship b.c. it would be a dealbreaker. Physical abuse is a given for me. Emotional abuse, also a given, but we often talk about communication styles. We talked a long time ago that certain things are so horrible to say that once you say them, you can't take them back.

For me the absolute end all be all would be physical abuse, hard drug use, and physical or emotional cheating. Probably in that order too. Other things like not making the other person a priority, inappropriate friendships, and alcohol use would depend on the situation but are workable. I have a "never say never" attitude towards those. And really, I could maybe forgive a physical affair in some world where hell has frozen over but I could never, ever forgive things like cocaine use, hiring prostitutes, or hitting me.

[wrathofkuus]

May 17, 2012 12:07:42 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

I guess it depends on what the addiction is to.

For instance, if mr man showed up with a magic meth addiction, I can't see myself working through that because WHAT THE HELL POSSESSED HIM TO TRY METH, FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!

Haha, yes, this is pretty much what I was getting at. I doubt I'd give that sort of addiction the chance to be fixed for that very same reason.

[beebeeeater]

May 17, 2012 12:07:45 GMT -5 Muddled said:

I look at it this way.

If a guy puts his mom/family before me while we are dating, that's acceptable, normal, and even preferrable. They are family. They are a permanent part of his life. I may not be. The longer we have been dating, the more serious we get, the less okay it gets. It becomes a dealbreaker around engagement time.

If a guy I am dating has a problem with drugs or alcohol, I am not going to sign up for a life of that shit. I am out the door. If my husband develops a problem, I am going to work with him on it. If the problem continues or he doesn't want to work on it, then it becomes a dealbreaker.

It's a continuum in a way. People's behavior needs to adapt to the situation. If it doesn't, you re-evaluate.

Allllllll of this.

[gbck]

May 17, 2012 13:35:15 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

May 17, 2012 12:07:42 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

I guess it depends on what the addiction is to.

For instance, if mr man showed up with a magic meth addiction, I can't see myself working through that because WHAT THE HELL POSSESSED HIM TO TRY METH, FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!

Yeah, I do think that's different.

I do know that it does sound like I throw the Mr. under the bus on this one...but the fact that he eventually called me and said "I've been sneaking your vicoden and alcohol and not going to work and I'm suicidal" kinda was different than me saying "Why the fuck is there a crack-pipe under the bed?"


Haha, yes, this is pretty much what I was getting at. I doubt I'd give that sort of addiction the chance to be fixed for that very same reason.