Article: Microaggression & Messages They Send

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2016 10:36:17 GMT -5 patbutcher said:

This is completely an aside but a funny story. My old neighbour is Italian/Canadian (in the same way that Teresa Giudece is) if that makes sense. I don't think she has ever been to Italy or whatever but that is her background. 


Anyway, when she got married last year, I was invited to the wedding and I messaged her to ask where she was registered as I didn't see anywhere.  She wrote me back a very terse message about how cash gifts were expected and that is how it is done in Europe. Europeans don't do registeries except for showers. 

 I was so taken back by the cheek of the cash request, I didn't have the heart to explain that the UK is part of Europe and it's a bit rude to tell me how "Europeans" do things when she has never even been there. 

LOL. She could have just said "we aren't registered" and let you read between the lines. What did you give her?

[patbutcher]

Jan 27, 2016 10:50:06 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Jan 27, 2016 10:36:17 GMT -5 patbutcher said:

This is completely an aside but a funny story. My old neighbour is Italian/Canadian (in the same way that Teresa Giudece is) if that makes sense. I don't think she has ever been to Italy or whatever but that is her background. 


Anyway, when she got married last year, I was invited to the wedding and I messaged her to ask where she was registered as I didn't see anywhere.  She wrote me back a very terse message about how cash gifts were expected and that is how it is done in Europe. Europeans don't do registeries except for showers. 

 I was so taken back by the cheek of the cash request, I didn't have the heart to explain that the UK is part of Europe and it's a bit rude to tell me how "Europeans" do things when she has never even been there. 

LOL. She could have just said "we aren't registered" and let you read between the lines. What did you give her?

$100 gift card. And she never spoke to us again nor did I get a TY card. They have moved now,thank God. Oh and this was after H dropped $100 at their stag and doe fundraiser.  *-)

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2016 10:56:04 GMT -5 patbutcher said:

Jan 27, 2016 10:50:06 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

LOL. She could have just said "we aren't registered" and let you read between the lines. What did you give her?

$100 gift card. And she never spoke to us again nor did I get a TY card. They have moved now,thank God. Oh and this was after H dropped $100 at their stag and doe fundraiser.  *-)

Rude!

[magpie]

Jan 27, 2016 8:50:15 GMT -5 laurack said:

with regard the accent thing (nessness ) I guess for me it can be annoying because I feel like I can't start talking to a person without that being asked. So I'm gearing myself up for the question "oh where are you from!" as soon as I say anything and it gets tiring sometimes. I don't think people should stop though, I think it's a natural conversation starter for folks and everyone "loves Ireland" so it never feels negative in intention, nothing like POC and their struggles at all.

but yeah sometimes I think it would be nice to be able to put on an American accent for small talk and professional interactions.

My Australian husband gets asked the "Where are you from?" question all the time too.  Then he will answer, "Australia" and 95% of the time the person responds back with something about how they love Australia and always wanted to go there.  He's so bored with that same conversation again and again that I can see him internally rolling his eyes whenever it happens (ie--all the time).  

Also, even though I know people make assumptions or jump to (usually correct) conclusions with him because he has an accent, I think a key difference between this and a microaggression is that there isn't that subtle (or sometimes not so subtle) power dynamic that exists with we're dealing with racism.  

[D2M]

magpie , exactly. There's a big difference between "This is an annoying/repetitive conversation" versus "You just made totally untrue and insulting assumptions about me based on biases you may not even know you have." I'd go further and say that questions to people of Western European heritage =/= microaggressions but, of course, it's hard to paint broad strokes. (But seriously. As a straight, white, educated woman of Western European heritage, I cannot say with a straight face that I've ever experienced racial microaggressions.)

ETA: I remembered that the article is not just about racial microaggressions, so my bad re: my last sentence.   The article obviously has lots of examples about sexism, etc. 

[laurack]

Jan 27, 2016 11:14:45 GMT -5 D2M said:

magpie , exactly. There's a big difference between "This is an annoying/repetitive conversation" versus "You just made totally untrue and insulting assumptions about me based on biases you may not even know you have." I'd go further and say that questions to people of Western European heritage =/= microaggressions but, of course, it's hard to paint broad strokes. (But seriously. As a straight, white, educated woman of Western European heritage, I cannot say with a straight face that I've ever experienced racial microaggressions.)

ETA: I remembered that the article is not just about racial microaggressions, so my bad re: my last sentence.   The article obviously has lots of examples about sexism, etc. 

yes I would never class it as a microaggression. It's positive not negative, and people don't assume things about my character, my means or my worth as a person based on my appearance or voice.

[justsayin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/3au4se/ucal_professors_instructed_not_to_use/

[niq]

The article is very targeted at academia, since, well, that's who its meant to speak to.

Jan 26, 2016 18:44:05 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

This PDF is painful to read and then read comments at how there are some people who were not aware this was happening. So much of it is an inherent part of my life that I cannot imagine life without having to be guarded against all of the boxes and many of the examples.

I'm very sorry.

I think there is an (unfair) perception that since Asian-Americans (and I will skip my usual rant about how this is a weird category) are doing "okay", compared to other PsOC, that issues of racial discrimination against Asian-Americans aren't a problem. Which ... maybe they're less of a problem, in terms of socioeconomic outcomes. But that doesn't mean they're not a problem.

I also think some of the things on the list -- especially the idea that America in general and things like Academia (and technology) are a pure meritocracy in particular -- run waaaay deep and lots of people who think of themselves as fairly clued in on issues of racial discrimination would claim (incorrectly) that it's not a problem. Some of this is "liberals getting hit in the face with reality" -- if you are high-SES and in academics, diversity in faculty hiring/admissions is one of the few places where attempts to deal with discrimination will affect you personally instead of in the abstract. But mostly I think it is a demonstration that many white people only think you need to go so far to be inclusive.

My lived experience here is that basically every white student I ran into in college thought of affirmative action as "reverse discrimination" siiiigh.

[shelbyann]

Just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I haven't had time to wade through the longer posts on the subject lately but I think it's good that they are happening. I also appreciate concise articles like this one that include specific examples...like others many of them seem obviously aggressive but I learned a few things too.

[jene]

Thanks for posting this. My parents are terrible at micro aggressions. Once I got out on my own, I realized how hurtful they can be.

[bronxgirl]

Jan 27, 2016 10:56:04 GMT -5 patbutcher said:

Jan 27, 2016 10:50:06 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Oh and this was after H dropped $100 at their stag and doe fundraiser.  *-)

just how they do it in Europe! 

[niq]

Jan 27, 2016 12:34:09 GMT -5 justsayin said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/3au4se/ucal_professors_instructed_not_to_use/

I am shocked -- SHOCKED -- to find that a subreddit has retrograde views on racial issues in the name of "libertarianism" aka the freedom to use Bitcoin to buy weed and internet porn.

ETA I think there is a difference between anti-bias/micro-aggression awareness training and some of the other stuff in the news lately about college campuses* about attempts to sanitize course material, disinvite certain guest speakers, etc. You can teach the historical context of material/opinions that we would consider totally inappropriate if it were written today.

* these sorts of things flare up in the news from time to time, but they're not very common. Most students just want to get through their coursework and go drink/smoke on Friday!

[carfar]

Jan 27, 2016 10:09:20 GMT -5 patbutcher said:

Jan 27, 2016 9:58:39 GMT -5 pinotgrig said:

Is there a non-offensive way to ask someone about their background if you genuinely are interested? I work with a guy from SA and his life story is really cool and I love hearing about how he grew up and traditions he's maintained now that he lives in the US. We had a great convo one day about weddings and were both fascinated at how different our customs are. I don't even remember how we started talking about it, but I hope I didn't offend him. I learned a lot from him and continue to do so.

I can only talk for myself (I'm friends with you on fb so you can see my name/colouring) - I really have no issue when people ask me my background if we are friends/have chatted for a while. It just bugs me a bit when people blurt it out as soon as I say my name/speak. I don't want to get into my life story with Pam from the dentist's office.
 I'm sure you didn't offend him. There is a difference between being interested in friend's background/culture and making a point that someone is "different/not of this place" I can tell when people are genuinely asking v fishing for "gossip" (don't know how to explain).

EG - my name is Arabic. When I give it at a lot of places they says "oh what a pretty name" (thanks!). Some ask me where it is from (that's fine). It's when they start pressing - oh how come you have that name? And your last name is Irish, that is a funny mix. Was your dad an immigrant? How did he meet your mum etc. And this is just the receptionist at the doctors. 

I agree. I get asked various versions of "where are you from" constantly. If it comes up naturally, or you see pictures of my parents, fine, ask me about it. Don't come up to me randomly and declare "what are you?"

Wtf?! Get outta here and quit trying to put me in some sort of box/category.

[karinothing]

Dh gets the where are your from and the mo where are you really from, when he says texas. It annoys him and really opened my eyes to what the question really means.

[Willis Jackson]

Maybe this should get its own thread but I really wanted to discuss this after I watched it:

Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with Steve Harvey

comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/steve-harvey-always-do-the-banana-joke-first

I didn't really get the "Jerry Seinfeld is racist" argument until I watched it.