I think that maybe, with the election close and both sides going all out with the culture wars, we may be a little touchier than normal.
Conservatives are certainly on the minority on this board and when we are discussing a topic and ten people are telling you why you're wrong I'm sure it can feel like piling but I don't think that any of us have anything but respect for most Cons on the board. We just need more of them.
I've actually enjoyed some of our gun debates. The first couple after Aurora were more frustrating than anything, but the last one I thought was pretty good.
I'll agree with this as well.
I also agree with Ellie (I think?) that new blood would be good. Most of the time we know what the regs all think about an issue, so repeating gets old and then we have nothing but inane responses to fall back on. New blood would be awesome... but that would honestly require a solid supply of big girl panties for the newbies.
I also feel like we have all discussed the same topics so many times that we know how everyone is going to respond, and instead of actual debate we just end up with snarkiness from both sides. Maybe we need new blood?
I see what you are saying I don’t believe this is the case here. Regarding abortion, torture, entitlements, etc.then yes. However the election is invoking political excitement in this country, therefore we have new stories and talking points coming out on a pretty consistent basis. These are not being discussed like we did back on E08 because much of the civil discourse is gone. For some people that’s OK but for those on the board to have healthy debates considering all sides, it’s no good.
I also feel like we have all discussed the same topics so many times that we know how everyone is going to respond, and instead of actual debate we just end up with snarkiness from both sides. Maybe we need new blood?
I think this is a big part of it too.
Ditto nitaw about the tax code being something we didn't really "debate" about because we all kind of agree on what we'd like to see. Hell, even some reproduction-related issues are unity horses around here. I don't remember anyone approving of transvaginal ultrasounds in VA, for example.
As for whether I objectively read stuff that the opposing side writes here, of course I do. And sometimes I even agree. But there's only one poster here who I just cannot imagine reading anything politics-related that she writes and actually agreeing with it so I pretty much don't bother reading her posts with an objective eye. Take a wild guess who I'm talking about lol.
Your problem is with the extreme, BSC, religious, far-right wing of your party. Not those who object to it.
Exactly. you and heyjude, et al can continue riding your sainted high horses around the board while the BSC religious nesties obliterate the civil tone and thoughtful debates we used to have.
This is what happens when Zoe doesn't come in every morning and tell us what to talk about without setting the tone by posting her opinion as well.
And some of you guys are high if you think the only reason things are assy around here is because Rick Santorum, Akin and the like are fucking nutters. Two of the most liberal (for conservatives anyway) candidates to ever hit a republican ticket and you guys are fronting like we brought Jerry Falwell back from the dead and put him up there with James Dobson.
I have a lovely time when I'm here and if I'm not having a lovely time I know where I can go. Shrugs.
We have this same convo all. The. Time. Seriously. Every year. If you don't like the board you have many options: (a) take a break (b) GBCNGBCN (c) make the board better place.
But blaming libs for the fact that you are not having fun here anymore isn't a good way to make the board a better place.
Your problem is with the extreme, BSC, religious, far-right wing of your party. Not those who object to it.
Exactly. you and heyjude, et al can continue riding your sainted high horses around the board while the BSC religious nesties obliterate the civil tone and thoughtful debates we used to have.
Oh also, I think part of the issue is that this is a national board. So I know that some cons - such as Caden, I think - have made comments in the midst of a huge debate on lets say healthcare or food stamps or wahtever - that its not about being opposed to the program, its that you think the local government should do it, not the federal (it may have been Y4M who made that comment a few times recently. maybe both of you.)
anyway, that's just not as fun lol. so like wawa said before, we are all "on the same team" in many ways - we want a balanced budget, we want people to have food who cant afford etc - and it just comes down to how. For many of those issues I think cons would say it should fall to private industry or local governments. But it's not as interesting to discuss how a local municipality is taking care of those who can't pay their food bill every month or whatever, kwim? We have to discuss it for the most part on a national level so its easier to pick apart the conservative ideas sometimes because I think a con will say "the federal gov shouldnt be doing this" and the libs hear "NO ONE should be doing this." So maybe we have a hearing problem ha.
But blaming libs for the fact that you are not having fun here anymore isn't a good way to make the board a better place.
To be clear, I'm not blaming libs. I'm blaming snatches who happen to be liberal. And people I generally like who have gone ragey who happen to be liberal.
The fact that these people happen to be liberal is irrelevant to the conversation.
As a leftie, I will say that if I were a conservative here, I'd be pissed off that I'm apparently expected to right to wrongs of the GOP myself and demonstrate to everyone constantly that I'm not crazycakes.
Post by soontobeka on Aug 29, 2012 13:40:36 GMT -5
For me, the only major issue that our cons align with the current GOP is budget issues. A great deal of what is currently on the GOP platform is not in line with what how our Cons feel on the those issues. With that being said, we (collective we) have spent a great deal talking about the GOP issues that are on the platform that are more unsavory to the board. When a con does jump in to those threads, pile ons and name calling do ensue. Not because the con necessarily agrees with the point being discussed but simply because the line between cons and GOP can quickly get blurred in the heat of some of these debates.
I miss the fact based debates of 08. The tenor and tone of both parties has changed since 08 and I think that it is reflected on the board.
I do admit that is sometimes exhaustive to separate our more moderate cons with the right leaning GOP and at times making that distinction in a thread has been met with sarcasm from our more moderate cons. (hope this makes a lick of sense)
Your problem is with the extreme, BSC, religious, far-right wing of your party. Not those who object to it.
Exactly. you and heyjude, et al can continue riding your sainted high horses around the board while the BSC religious nesties obliterate the civil tone and thoughtful debates we used to have.
Your problem is with the extreme, BSC, religious, far-right wing of your party. Not those who object to it.
Exactly. you and heyjude, et al can continue riding your sainted high horses around the board while the BSC religious nesties obliterate the civil tone and thoughtful debates we used to have.
And that military thread was offensive as hell. YWIA!
so that was all the same thread? I couldn't remember.
That's a part of the dynamic too - we tend to have threads that will start off with one tone, crumble down into shrieking shit-shows, and then occasionally turn back around and wind up with an interesting debate on a slightly modified topic.
The interesting part is what tends to stick with me - but if what you tend to remember is the shit-show portion of the proceedings, then obviously things will feel a bit different. And it's harder to dismiss the assery when it's directed at you. (either directly or just a topic to which you are sensitive)
I have a lovely time when I'm here and if I'm not having a lovely time I know where I can go. Shrugs.
We have this same convo all. The. Time. Seriously. Every year. If you don't like the board you have many options: (a) take a break (b) GBCNGBCN (c) make the board better place.
But blaming libs for the fact that you are not having fun here anymore isn't a good way to make the board a better place.
Apparently not, since you seem to have no desire to self-reflect and improve the discourse via your own posts. I'm barely here anymore as an active poster, so I have found something of a solution. I'm just wishing "aloud" here that the board was better so that more people wanted to be here. Not fewer.
I thought the discussion on what would we do for that little boy in Troy(?) was pretty good. And the gun threads also.
Druid- what exactly is bothering you? Too much of the same subject? Personal attacks?
Well, first off, it's not just me, as the rest of this thread supports.
It's different, and IMO not in a good way. Again, that's my opinion. And I get if people have bad days and give free reign to their angst about issues via personal attacks on posters. But when that becomes the norm, then I think we're hardly any better than the anti-abortion protestors or a soapbox die-in-damnation preacher - sitting firmly entrenched in our stance, not caring how offensive or disrespectful we are to anyone who has a different situation or perspective. We can all agree no one with that approach is either going to change a mind or endear their position to the other party.
The dynamic here is, IMO, vastly different from what was on TN. The majority has consistently been with the liberal/Democratic slant, and it appears to me that dissenting voices are met with comments of "you're stupid" and the like.
I know. It's something I've been noticing happening, and I don't know why.
You, KA, etc. have been reduced to not voicing your opinions, but using gifs, etc. for one liners to rebuff what is being said to you.
Tef has become someone who gingerly walks the line without giving her full opinion. She started to be attacked in the thread last night, and she was completely mild mannered.
Caden and Y4M are only "respected" when it comes to the balancing the budget posts.
Once you start recognizing the patterns, it's hard to ignore. And again, I feel bad about that. Then again, I haven't been particularly above-board when it comes to jumping in with both feet when it gets snarky.
I would like to address the bolded. I don't actually post in discussions much, usually because they get hairy before I can get to them. I do read nearly every post and thread, though. And what I notice is that there is a lot of defensiveness on the con side, and with that comes a lot of snark (see above DP response for example). I'm not speaking on behalf of all libs, just myself, and that's just what I've noticed. I'm not sure if there's snark because they are feeling attacked, or snark is what's calling for the attack. Either way, the dynamic has certainly changed and it honestly makes me feel a little squicky about posting in debate threads.
Your problem is with the extreme, BSC, religious, far-right wing of your party. Not those who object to it.
Exactly. you and heyjude, et al can continue riding your sainted high horses around the board while the BSC religious nesties obliterate the civil tone and thoughtful debates we used to have.
Really? Because I remember hearing the exact same complaint from you and other R's during the 2008 election. Are we not supposed to notice or discuss all the race-baiting, anti-woman, anti-equality rhetoric that has dominated the GOP for the last 4+ years?
I'm sorry it feels like Rs personally are being picked on but, again, your ("your") beef should be with your party, not with those who dare to notice and object to their extreme positions. If you don't want your party to be seen as the party or far-right, religious, gay/woman/minority-hating nutjobs, then perhaps you should work on reclaiming your party from said nutjobs. Because right now, they are drowning out all the other voices in your party.
But blaming libs for the fact that you are not having fun here anymore isn't a good way to make the board a better place.
To be clear, I'm not blaming libs. I'm blaming snatches who happen to be liberal. And people I generally like who have gone ragey who happen to be liberal.
The fact that these people happen to be liberal is irrelevant to the conversation.
Agreed. And I'm sure there is a Con or two (probably not too many more since there aren't but a few left in total) who is just as bad, but since I barely open any threads I don't know who they are.
Can we not blame all libs for the transgressions of a few? IME, there are trolly-libs AND trolly-cons and THEY are the ones who create the messes.
I think the only "difference" now is that people are just giving up and not coming back to engage again. They don't find new articles to post and talk about, they don't comeback with F/Us or S/Os. If an issue matters to you, BRING IT UP!
Lets not create threads about how others aren't talking about certain topics, when you could simply make your own post on that topic.
This is what happens when Zoe doesn't come in every morning and tell us what to talk about without setting the tone by posting her opinion as well.
And some of you guys are high if you think the only reason things are assy around here is because Rick Santorum, Akin and the like are fucking nutters. Two of the most liberal (for conservatives anyway) candidates to ever hit a republican ticket and you guys are fronting like we brought Jerry Falwell back from the dead and put him up there with James Dobson.
Honest question- what makes these two more liberal than the last few GOP tickets? I can understand Romney to an extent but Ryan even describes himself as very conservative- both social and fiscal.
I miss the fact based debates of 08. The tenor and tone of both parties has changed since 08 and I think that it is reflected on the board.
OK, this has come up a few time and I just want to chime in. I came over to PCE in 08 to see what ppl were talking about on a national level. On TN I was only on my home board, which is overwhelmingly conservative. I stayed for a while but eventually the level of snark and general bitchiness got to me and I walked away.
Then I came back right before the transition to PB and braced myself for the shit show because once again I wanted to see what was going on. It hasn't been nearly as bad (although I got totally flamed a couple of times) IMO.
I'm not trying to say I remember right and you guys remember wrong, but it's like when you don't notice your husband gained 30 lbs because you see him everyday but you notice that your ex gained 5 when you see him tagged in a FB pic.
Exactly. you and heyjude, et al can continue riding your sainted high horses around the board while the BSC religious nesties obliterate the civil tone and thoughtful debates we used to have.
Really? Because I remember hearing the exact same complaint from you and other R's during the 2008 election. Are we not supposed to notice or discuss all the race-baiting, anti-woman, anti-equality rhetoric that has dominated the GOP for the last 4+ years?
I'm sorry it feels like Rs personally are being picked on but, again, your ("your") beef should be with your party, not with those who dare to notice and object to their extreme positions. If you don't want your party to be seen as the party or far-right, religious, gay/woman/minority-hating nutjobs, then perhaps you should work on reclaiming your party from said nutjobs. Because right now, they are drowning out all the other voices in your party.
Why do you assume that she isn't working on reclaiming her party? I know several of our cons are involved as party delegates (or whatever they're called) on the local level. They vote in primaries. What else do you suggest short of running themselves?
To be clear, I'm not blaming libs. I'm blaming snatches who happen to be liberal. And people I generally like who have gone ragey who happen to be liberal.
The fact that these people happen to be liberal is irrelevant to the conversation.
Agreed. And I'm sure there is a Con or two (probably not too many more since there aren't but a few left in total) who is just as bad, but since I barely open any threads I don't know who they are.
If you hardly open any posts are you in the best position to call out the board?
Two of the most liberal (for conservatives anyway) candidates to ever hit a republican ticket and you guys are fronting like we brought Jerry Falwell back from the dead and put him up there with James Dobson.
I grant you that Mitt Romney's record is pretty liberal for a Republican, but Paul Ryan's is not. I'm not saying that as a value judgment (though I'm sure you know where I stand). By most any metric of measuring whether a member of Congress is liberal or conservative, Ryan is far from a centrist.
On the navel-gazing topic, my strategy is just to try to filter through all the noise and only respond to substance.
Also, I'll just come out and say this - if you're going to post in a thread containing an article, you should actually read the article first. (Yes, I'm guilty of this, too.) A week or two ago, someone posted a very interesting article, and I remember someone saying, "I haven't read the article, but I wonder if BLAH BLAH BLAH" and every single thing she wondered was addressed in the article.
But yeah, at some point, I don't know how much there is left to hash out. After seeing some things go down in my family, I am absolutely convinced that the free market cannot solve the healthcare problem. The free market does not have a way to make sure that my relative with serious a low paying job, no health insurance, and serious mental health issues gets the help he needs. I absolutely 100% believe with every fiber of my being that the free market does not work for him. caden and y4m can dance a jig around statistics discussing this, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to budge. After a while, it seems pointless.