What about your mental, emotional and physical health? It's just as important in your relationship, but yet he seems to give no fu@ks at all about it. I love that you are so sweet and thoughtful and caring and a genuinely overall great person who considers everyone, but don't forget one very important person to care about and consider - yourself and your well being.
I've already given my helpful advice, so here's the rest of it: he's the jerk, not you -- anyone with two eyes and brain knows that.
I will repeat, it's okay to leave him -- you don't need my permission (or anyone else's) but I'm giving it to you. You don't need a "good enough" reason to leave, you're done that is reason enough.
It is okay to admit that part of staying married/living together is working for you. It may be a small part, but you've been in this relationship a very long time and may want to stay, even as more and more parts are becoming too dysfunctional to manage. Maybe him being depressed let's you be the "caretaker" - and that's comfortable for you. Maybe not.
One of the hardest things to do is to admit that you get something out of a terrible relationship. But if you let yourself explore it, you may find some valuable insight. And with that insight, you may find power. Power to really see what's going on.
I only mention this and encourage you to find what you may "get" out of this marriage because you really seem like you want to give yourself a noble reason to stay. Sure, staying married "in sickness and in health" is a reason to stay. But what is YOUR real reason to stay? Because you have one (or several) that's keeping you trapped in a very bad relationship/marriage. Is it hope? You don't want to stop hoping he'll change?
Mental illness is so hard because not getting help is so often one of the symptoms. But if he refuses to get help, you are not obligated to stick around forever, just waiting and hoping.
I want to repeat what I said in another thread about this: it's OK to be done. Walking away doesn't mean you didn't try. You've been a good wife. You've been a good mom. He treats you and the kids like crap, and you should not have to live like that. All this time, you HAVE been trying, and he's not been putting in any effort. It is OK to cut your losses. You just need to give yourself permission to leave.
If in 20 or 30 years, Lucy came to you and told you her husband was treating her like this and refused to do anything about it, you would tell her to leave. Be that example for her.
And, really as the child of a marriage that was fraught with alcoholism, mental illness and domestic violence, I really really really wish my mother would have left my father. She did nobody any favors by sticking around and letting us all endure that toxic turmoil. I still harbor quite a bit of resentment towards both of my parents for that and I'm 39 years old.
Look - you are a great Mom. So stop and think about this. Do you want to do damage your child (who has no choices here) or stick it out with someone who clearly doesn't care about your child and the damage he is doing?
You need to flip this around. When does Lucy get permission to be happy?
Be the example for Lucy for how you want her to value and honor herself. You already know the answer. He's not your problem to fix. You owe him nothing.
I'm going to take this opportunity to tell a story about my nana and grandfather - who love each other very much.
Two years ago my grandfather went to the doctor for some major health problems. He decided that he did not want to follow the doctor's advice and take the medicines prescribed, lifestyle changes, etc. He told her and everyone he was dying and would rather die than take the medicine and make changes.
Later that day he went and asked nana what was for dinner. She said, "Nothing. You are going to die anyway so why would I bother making you supper?" Along with some other choice words.
He then decided to take his medicine and make the lifestyle changes. He is still kicking today. She takes good care of him and he actively gets the help he needs.
Your H has been in the "I'd rather die than get help" phase for too long and you are still making him dinner. Stop making him dinner. It is time to leave.
As someone with anxiety and chronic blood sugar issues, my husband is not there to make me healthy or happy. I appreciate his support, hope he listens when I am struggling, and it's great if he encourages me to have some cheese and veggies instead of a donut. I am responsible for my own health and well-being. No one can make another person happy or 'fix' them. Marriage should be a partnership, not a prison. If he will not take that responsibility, take care of yourself and your daughter.
I've dealt with spousal depression, but luckily before kids. If I was going through what you are going through, I would definitely be planning to leave. As far as breaking your vows, do you think he can honestly say he has upheld his vows? You don't need to hold yourself to a higher standard than he's held himself to in this case.
I adore my husband and would really do nearly anything for him. The only exception to that though is if his presence in our home, or our marriage/relationship was negatively affecting or impacting our kids in any way, I'd be out.
He's a grown up and can look out for himself. Your kids are kids, and need their grownups to look out for them.
This. My kids come first. I know my H feels the same way. We love and respect one another, but our children need nurturing and that can't happen if one half of the team refuses to acknowledge a need for help or is unwilling to do anything to better himself. You cannot continue to be responsible for him as you have been. It's destroying you. More importantly, it is destroying Lucy and will start destroying David once he's old enough to really understand what's happening.
Put your children first. You made a promise to your H (though I disagree with your sentiment that you are breaking your promise by leaving him), but you have a natural bond with your children that you can never separate. That's bigger than any promise you could have made.
Post by howardandbear on Mar 29, 2017 9:50:28 GMT -5
I 100% understand what your feeling. I lived it. I couldn't leave. So I took a week long trip to stay with family about an hour away. There I finally decided to not go back for the time being. A year later I finally pulled the trigger on divorce. In that time I went to court to have him hospitalized. he argued I was only doing it bc of the pending divorce. The court gave him a guardian ad litem which made my life so much easier.
So many may have told you to kick him out. Personally I couldn't do that knowing how sick he was. Even after years of therapy I still struggle with leaving a sick man and I gave him everything but custody in the divorce. But I did leave. And my life is so much better for both me and my daughter. Good luck. And keep working thru all your thoughts. You will do what you need to do when you have to.
Post by followyourarrow on Mar 29, 2017 9:59:28 GMT -5
I totally get the guilt you're feeling about leaving when he's "sick" or depressed. I was there. My exH grew up in a bad home with really bad examples, and he was depressed. It took me a long time to come to terms with it, but I realized that none of that excused his behavior and the way he treated me. He also wasn't willing to get help, until I was done, and even then the help he chose to get wasn't good solid help, which is another story... All of this to say it's ok to be done. It's ok to put yourself and your kids first.
If the roles were reversed, what would you want him to do (thinking about it objectively)? Let's say you were legitimately depressed, but unwilling to get help, it had been going on for years, you weren't a meaningful part of the family, and your behavior was negatively effecting your kids. In that situation, would you want your H to take the kids and leave in order to try to create a stable and happy environment for them?
Depression is absolutely a sickness. It's also one that he can choose to combat. You have given him every opportunity and warning and he is opting out of trying to get well. It would be different if he'd made any effort and just hadn't yet found something that worked. That is objectly NOT the case here.
You also owe a duty to your children. They are not well served by a mother who is overextended and trapped or constant exposure to a father who is not working to get better.
There is nothing else anyone with sense would say you "have" to do to justify ending this marriage.
This may sound harsh, but I think it's important: you need to start prioritizing the feelings/wellbeing of your children over that of your husband. He is a grown man. He has a job. He has family. He can take care of himself. Your daughter is suffering and she's *telling* you that she's suffering. This kind of dynamic can have long reaching consequences for her.
This reminds me of the discussions/debates I've heard here and there about once you have kids, who is first in your life. People can argue all sides and discuss various scenarios that change the answer.
But this, above - 100%. Your child can't take care of herself or protect herself. This is absolutely the situaion where your child HAS to come first. Before you and certainly before your DH. He's a GROWN MAN. He can take care of himself IF HE CHOOSES to. Your DD can not.
I don't want to pile on with tough love, but I think it's important for you to hear. You have children that depend on you for their well being. These children don't have any other resources except you. Your husband, on the other hand, has resources available at the ready, all he has to do is make a phone call. He's proven time and time again that he is not going to pursue help.
The only advocate your children have is you. You need to shift your priorities first to them, then to you. You need to make sure your children are in an environment in which they can thrive. Once you remove your husband, this environment will come around easily. Then your focus needs to be on you and your well being.
"In sickness and in health" should be a vow you make to yourself in your situation. You need to take care of you.
You are under no obligation to him. You have done your damnedest to uphold your vows, has he? No. GO. This is the hard part. Once you get him out, you will feel relief and then you and the kids can start to heal.
Post by miniroller on Mar 29, 2017 10:45:39 GMT -5
I also keep typing & deleting. You need to save this post & refer to it a couple of times a day. Read it a couple of times an hour! You don't need permission from anyone. Please remember that he's counting on your current struggle. His manipulative ass is preying on your sense of love & loyalty. Stop letting him win. Sending so many vibes of STRENGTH.
I don't think you have to base your entire life around a few sentences that you said when your circumstances were different. I take my marriage vows seriously too, of course, but they are not meant to be lifelong chains. I think they are meant to express your willingness to support your partner when they are going through something tough, but your H is not going THROUGH anything. He's decided he's comfortable where he is, and has made no effort to get to a better place. And he's not supporting you in anything YOU need, either. The vows work both ways, and it sounds like he's broken his already.
My H has had struggles with anxiety and depression too. I am likely to stick with him through the worst of it because he sees a counselor weekly and takes medication willingly. He knows he struggles, so he works on it actively. If there comes a day when he chooses not to do those things anymore, for an extended time, regardless of how if affects my happiness, I will not stick with that. I don't think anyone should have to. Even people who are taking care of their mental health have bumps along the way, but your H is not at a bump. You deserve better than to be with someone who settles for staying at a low point indefinitely.
And I agree with others who have said I'm suspicious if he even actually has depression. Has he been formally diagnosed? Sometimes I think we women put up with asshole behavior because we assume it must be something out of their control that is causing it. (maybe men do this too). I know I did it for a long time with my XH. In the end it didn't actually matter if he DID have mental health issues because he was never going to change, regardless of the reason why he wasn't. And that wasn't good enough to sustain our marriage.
Post by formerlyak on Mar 29, 2017 11:10:57 GMT -5
My ex was depressed when we divorced. I didn't know it at the time, because one of our many issued was that he never talked to me. He was raised that you keep your issues to yourself and figure them out. The only way I found out it we lived together for 2 months after we decided to divorce and I found his meds in the medicine cabinet. I asked him about them (it was a fairly well-known anti-depressant) and he said they were "for his back". So even then, he didn't want to admit what was going on. I felt a little back, but in hindsight, we are both much happier now, so maybe a new start helped him and his depression. Hopefully things are similar with your H.
You can't fix him. Sometimes letting him go is a good push in that direction though.