Post by underwaterrhymes on Mar 29, 2017 20:10:13 GMT -5
One more thing:
First, I am a healthy, happy adult, so let me make that clear first.
But I had a miserable, awful, fucking late childhood and adolescence. My parents could have made things so much better for me and they didn't and as much as I love them, part of me will never forgive them for not putting us first.
You have the opportunity to do for your daughter what my parents didn't do for me and my sister.
I was Lucy as well. I repeated the cycle and married a man exactly like my father. I was only 19 years old. My husband abused me just like my father abused me when I was a child. I finally left the marriage and got a RO when he stalked me and tried to run me off the road. I got out, but there are scars. It all stemmed back to being abused as a child by my father. I was the only one subjected to physical abuse even though I have 3 other siblings.
My parents are still married. I still beg my mom to leave. She always comes close, but never leaves. When I go to family functions, my father knows not to speak to me. I pretend he does not exist.
I am the example of the cycle of abuse. Please do this for you and more importantly, your children.
Even IF we were to say that alllllll of this is his depression (which it's not, but just for the sake of argument). His illness is making your daughter sick.
If he had a highly contagious and potentially fatal disease that would spread to your children if they were living in the same house, would you leave/quarantine yourselves to ensure that your children stayed healthy and not return until he was better? Absolutely! And the disease could still take his life...but you can't risk your children's health/safety and stay in the hopes that staying would somehow cure him of the disease. What if there was a treatment available for the disease that could help him treat it and he refused to take it? Would you stay in the house, continuing to expose your children to this contagious disease while you tried to convince him that he needed to get treatment? Nope. You'd get out, protect your children, and then try to get him to get help from a safe place for you and your children.
That's what this is. We don't typically consider depression to be contagious, but in your situation, it absolutely is.
I admire your commitment to your vows, but this is NOT what God intended when He designed marriage. You are not being loved, honored, or respected, AND you are being mistreated at the VERY least.
How do you feel about separating? Would that be an easier step for you to take? Then after a period of separation, you could decide what is best for you and your kids. If "The D Word" is simply too hard for you to swallow right now, you don't have to use it...but you do have to protect yourself and your sweet babies from this disease that is already spreading to you. One step at a time. Tell yourself first you need to just get out. THEN you can decide if it's "for now" or "for good."
Absolutely. I was diagnosed with PTSD because of what I witnessed as a child in my own home happening between the two people who were supposed to love me the most and protect me above anything. I've thankfully worked my way through most of it, but please know what is being done to your children. It is not right and it is not fair.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
Your have a lot of really good friends here who have given you advice and support. Again and again they have answered what boils down to the same question over and over:
"I know my husband is abusive to me and my children. My daughter is suffering because of him. She wants to be away from him. But SOMETHING."
Is your daughter more important than SOMETHING, or not
I've been typing and deleting various things. I don't want to be too harsh, but I really don't know what more you need to hear.
We can't say anything for you that is going to give you the strength to leave. You need to find that yourself. The longer you wait, the worse things will be for your kids. That's the truth, whether anyone says it or not.
There are no perfect words anyone here can tell you. You need to just find the strength to take the first step. Then the next, and the one after that. The best way out is through.
Hugs to you Prof, and hope you take action. Also, hugs to everyone sharing your stories - those experiences speak loud and clear.
I've seen some of your posts before...and I guess I have a couple relevant things to say.
1) I suffer from anxiety and was diagnosed as an adult with ADHD. I also had a less than stellar childhood and have some resulting issues related to that. I am not a treat to be married to, and MH has been my rock for a long time. And I fail from time to time in taking care of my issues for a variety of reasons that I'm sure anyone else who has suffered from similar issues understands. That said, if I was refusing to do anything and it was affecting my kids, I would hope he would put them first and do what needed to be done. I mean that. 100%. Because prioritizing the overall family health has always been our shared goal and 3 > 1 if 1 can't get her shit together. I know it's hard. I struggle plenty to keep it together but it can't be indefinitely, which it seems like in your husband's case it is.
2) as I mentioned above, I had a less than stellar childhood and while I have my issues with my mother, I credit her with showing me what I wanted out of a relationship and showing me what a healthy relationship was after her ugly divorce with my worthless asshole of a sperm donor. When it came time for me to think about what I wanted in a partner, I found a guy who is super stable and responsible and the best partner for me. Without her taking control of her life and finding the right person for herself and ditching the asshole, I don't think I would have had such a good idea and good footing in my own romantic choices. I will always be grateful for that despite any issues I may have with my mother.
3) I think you are Catholic. I am Catholic too. It was important to me that I get married in the church. My children are being raised Catholic. A lot of people might identify themselves by their heritage but me? I feel like my identity is Catholic. Not Irish. Not German. Catholic. My great aunt is a nun. My entire life is awash with Catholicism; my every family/holiday memory revolves around the church. But I mean it when I say it: I truly do not think even the Catholic Church would say you needed to stay at the expense of your children in your case. If it matters to you, pursue an annulment too. But don't stay because of sickness and health vows. My great aunt was one of the first people to tell my mom she was doing the right thing and to ignore anyone else who tried to make her think differently.
Anyway. Good luck. Make the choice based on your kids and you can't go wrong. If you won't leave for yourself, leave for them.
Yes! This is important. YOU are getting something out of this dysfunction. What is it and why does it have a hold on you?
Because if I take care of people (my mom, my dad, sister, H) then. They'll need and like me
You are addressing codependency with your therapist right? This was so, so me a year+ ago. I fight every day the urge to do too much for the people I like or love (or even randoms at work!) to ensure they like me. It's maladaptive on your part too. You need to work on fighting that desire. People like you or they don't. You can never do enough to ensure they will like you forever.
And as to your question of how far in sickness and in health go? You've passed it. You crossed that line a long time ago. You are locked in a totally maladaptive pattern of taking care of him to feel okay about you and like he needs you and thus loves you, and he is perfectly happy to sit back and let you take care of him always.
It doesn't have to be this way. It SHOULDN'T be this way.
Post by W.T.Faulkner on Mar 29, 2017 21:55:18 GMT -5
L, you have got to get him the fuck out of there, and you know it. We'll say it as many times as you need to hear it, but you have GOT to be done. You can't do this to Lucy and Heavy D. Their childhood cannot be happy or healthy while you are married.
You have a choice in which relationships you want to preserve. In 20 years, you can still be a wife to this man, but you won't be a mom who's close to her grown kids. Is it Luce and David you want in your life in 20 years, when they're staring their own lives and having kids of their own? Or is it your husband? If it's them, have your husband get his shit NOW. If it's him, then keep things the way they are.
For Christ sake, your daughter is suffering. Get her out of this situation and focus on helping her. I don't mean to be harsh, I feel really bad for your child. You know the right thing to do. Leave.
Post by newnamesameperson on Mar 29, 2017 21:55:32 GMT -5
You've received amazing advice, and you always do. I hope this board enables you to move forward (as in the hell away) from your husband. My concern is you might be utilizing it to get validation that you indeed are his caretaker and therefore should remain since you are doing everything right for him...and he should love you as a result.
You do not need any of us to validate your place in the relationship. That's your continued choice, as harsh as that sounds.. However, your choice has caused issues for your child. Now that's where you have to draw the line. How is this impacting her mental and physical health?
Another point to note, when your husband treats you like shit it results in stress and anxiety for you. You have nowhere to release this and can result in actions towards your kids you wouldn't normally have (such as your more exhausted, frustrated, angry etc).
Post by acceptthegood on Mar 30, 2017 1:37:10 GMT -5
I was flamed before by pointing out that there are often 2 people in a cycle of abuse.
We all know you love your children. The one child that can talk has directly told you told remove her from this situation. The other one is non verbal, but that doesn't mean he isn't feeling it. Lucy said your H is mean to the baby.
What is it going to take for your to realize your priority of responsibility is to them now? Should they live with someone else just so can get away from your H? (Ftr, I think they should be with their mom, but I'm trying to make you see how important this is that they are safe)
I've given you 5 supportive responses by now. They all end the same way, but they are getting more urgent. You need to leave now. No more excuses while you allow your children to be terrorized. Not ok.
I,too, was worried about my vows when I wanted to leave my XH. I'm Catholic and had talked to him before so he always would ask how I was doing, etc. When I went to him with my concerns, he said that my XH and I both took vows. It wasn't on me only to maintain a healthy marriage. And he wasn't holding up his end of the vows with how he was acting and treating me and the kids. So I had the right to leave. I had kept those vows and at that point felt better about my choice to leave my marriage. He left it long before but I didn't really see it.
You can do this. Its hard now but honestly it gets so much better. Good luck.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Mar 30, 2017 5:12:31 GMT -5
I haven't commented on the similar posts you've posted about your marriage because I see a lot of my mom in you. And it makes me upset and sad and angry. I don't want to get flamed for not being sensitive to you. but I have to say this:
If you don't leave, your future is going to be like my mom's. Wrapped up in a guy that doesn't give a shit about anyone, with two children that are eternally conflicted between loving and hating their parents. My situation is a little different due to my dads addiction but in the end *He has a problem that maybe initially wasn't his fault but because he never got help, never wanted help, never acknowledged that he had a problem, the problem never got better. It IS his fault for not getting help*
My mom's life is stunted. She can't enjoy anything. She can't have fun in her retirement. Her life is wrapped up in a belligerent old man who refuses to believe that for the past 30 years he has a problem that needs to be dealt with. When I ask her "why don't you leave" she replies with platitudes about marriage, her religion doesn't believe in divorce, she has to give it her all, and how she has to help him bc of the feelings of guilt, but I think the real reason is that she's scared. She's scared to start over. She hates her life. She hates it. But hating her current life is somehow better than the unknown/uncertainty/anxiety of starting over. She will tell me that she hopes one day it will get better which is just her trying to fool herself.
It. Will. Not. Get. Better. Not. Ever.
Your life, staying married, is as good as it will ever be. Today will be the best days of your life when you look back as a woman in your 60s.
I have had to stop a lot of interactions between my kids and my parents. I have had to limit their visits.
I am mad. I'm mad that my mom puts my dad ahead of everything else, including herself. I'm mad that she lies to herself that it will get better. I'm mad that my kids don't have the grandparents they deserve. That I carry a lot of baggage due to their marriage.
You already know this will never get better. You don't need us telling you that.
You have to make a decision: is the anxiety of making that change worse than wasting your life with a man that will never be who you need him to be. Does the fact that you'll freeing yourself and your children from a lifetime of mental abuse hold any weight?
It isn't easy to leave, I understand that. But staying won't get easier. Not ever. My mom constantly tells me she wishes she left my dad when she was in her 30s. When we were young. Because looking back, she now sees that that was the time. That was her chance. That was our chance.
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Post by nightandday on Mar 30, 2017 5:51:33 GMT -5
Your daughter expressed her unhappiness a while ago, right? I don't know if you've told her that you're making a plan to get out, but if not, she may be thinking that her feelings haven't been heard and understood. The longer you stay, the more powerful of a lesson you are teaching her- don't speak up because no one is listening anyway. That's not the case, but she doesn't know that. Please leave. She needs you to.
Post by ProfessorArtNerd on Mar 30, 2017 6:11:54 GMT -5
Ok. I hear what you're all saying. The next time I post about my marriage it'll be an announcement that it's over. It was hard to hear, but you're all right. Thanks
I was flamed before by pointing out that there are often 2 people in a cycle of abuse. Jenny1980 said you are complicit in abusing Lucy by not leaving.
Post by closertofine on Mar 30, 2017 6:51:10 GMT -5
I want to add, seeing that you are Catholic and it is important to you, another anecdote.
I was married in the Catholic Church because it was important to stbx,and perhaps even more so to my parents. My parents' potential reaction was another thing giving me pause as I was deciding. Well, two things, they were completely supportive, which surprised me. But I knew my mom was still struggling with the whole divorce thing. Anyway, my parents are heavily involved in their diocese. Many, many priest friends. They had lunch a few months ago with the priest who married us. My mom told me she hadn't planned on bringing up my situation (so she is ashamed, but idgaf.) Well, it did come up. And the priest said to her, "closertofine's mom, if ever there was a candidate for annulment, it is closertofine. The abuse she was subjected to, regardless of if it was due to his mental illness, is immediate grounds, and it would be a simple process. Tell her to call me if she wants to start the process." Now, I don't actually give two shits about an annulment, so I'm not going to bother. But I know that gave my mom a LOT of peace.
I didn't want to read without answering so I'll just echo what everyone said and add that your kids need you more than anyone else and to the contrary of all others, they are powerless at helping themselves.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Mar 30, 2017 7:44:53 GMT -5
Also I want to add: in one of my fathers rages he yelled at my sister told her to go back home to New Jersey and forget she ever had a father. My sister is 34 and I think she is permanently and forever scarred by his words. He doesn't remember becuse he was in a rage. But she does.
If a 34 year old has an indelible mark due to words, just imagine the effect on a child.
My mom had the power to change everything. Her life, our lives, everything. But she was too afraid to take it and she regrets it every single day of her life. She has told me that point blank.
Last Edit: Mar 30, 2017 7:45:32 GMT -5 by Leeham Rimes
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham