Spoilers!! ACOWAR - Let's discuss

[bex]

May 15, 2017 22:00:32 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

MrsAxilla , sarahsays , I know, I know. I need to dial it back considering I will never write a book and if I did it wouldn't even be half as good as anything Sarah Maas has ever written. I'm that person I make fun of for yelling at the tv while watching professional athletes as if they are some kind of coach who knows exactly what the players should do, as they sit on their couch having not played that sport ever in their entire lives. That's my father watching football and now that's me reading books sometimes haha! I'll try to stop. Overthinking things does take the enjoyment out of it. Hopefully with adjusted expectations I will go back to loving this series. I think I was just so genuinely shocked and pleased by ACOMAF that I thought the next book would somehow blow my mind because I was looking for hidden clues from the previous books again that set up this new book's plot. And it did happen with Jurian being good, Mor being a lesbian, the Carver being Feyre's future child, the Suriel being a good thing, the Carver and Weaver being siblings, etc. But it just wasn't on the same scale as ACOMAF where everything had a double meaning from the previous book. But she can't repeat the same formula either or else that would get boring too - so I'm just being a picky pants. I'll go hide now haha.

I think part of the issue with this book was there stuff Maas wanted to do, or stuff she changed her mind about while writing. Like I think she did want Mor and Az to be a couple, but then decided somewhere along the way to have Azriel and Elain be "a thing," but then couldn't figure out how to fix it. So she had Mor come out as a lesbian.  She wanted to give more background on the High Lords and finally introduce all the high lords as characters, but she rushed it.

I also think often when authors start looking ahead to the next books they're going to write, they lose focus on the story in front of them, and I think that kind of happened here. I think Maas became focused on setting up a few different plot lines for the follow-up books, which I think ended up detracting from this story.

[snshne322]

Nesta didn't bother me that much. I think I had it in my head that she would be one of the spin-offs so I didn't invest too much emotional energy in her. I assumed there was A LOT more that happened behind the scenes that we weren't privy to, yet.

I always had more issues with Elaine. Nesta didn't try to be anything other than she was, but Elaine was a wet blanket for most of the series.

[abs]

I didn't hate Nesta. I felt like I understood her character. I think she was simply afraid to trust others but she did show she cared deeply about her family in her own way. I mean, she is the first one that tried to save Feyre in book one. Now Elain....I spent a lot of the book wanting to slap her. But I got Nesta. I think we saw a pretty decent journey for her character.

I think part of the problem is that Maas started out the series with very clear goals and a solid direction. There was a lot of foreshadowing in ACOTAR. ACOMAF carried over that story perfectly and added some new twists. In ACOWAR there was just too much going on. Maas was trying to finish Rhys's and Feyre's story but also set up the spin off novels that weren't planned for in book one. It just didn't quite work.

[ufcasey]

bex - I definitely think she had torn focus and too many goals in this book. She had to have a big battle scene involving all the High Lords, but didn't give the new High Lord characters enough page space or plot to really build them up as three-dimensional people. I really didn't feel any tension either with the only exceptions being when Feyre and Az rescued Elain and when Feyre and Lucien were fighting with his brothers trying to escape while she had no access to her winnowing powers. Otherwise it was just a lot of stuff happening and I wasn't worried about any of it or dreading/looking forward to anything happening further along in the book while I was reading it. And YES not a single redeeming quality about Nesta in this book, until the very end when she attempts to save Cassian, twice. But that felt a bit too little, too late. The only vulnerable moments was when she admitted she can't take a bath, and when she was genuinely surprised that Feyre tried to save her during the fight in the library.

pisces - sorry to pull down your liking of the book! Hopefully it wasn't too much!

snshne322 - yes total wet blanket. Elain was either slightly crazy with her future visions, or she was sad and meek. And then out of nowhere she is the one to kill the King (or start it). Completely out of left field. And their father! Another completely random thing seemingly just thrown in there - where was there any sign that he was going to do something like that? Or had an inclination to do it? He was pretty ok with just letting his daughter prevent them from all dying of starvation but now we're supposed to believe he went on some crazy trek to build up fighting support for a big fight he had no idea was going to be needed and showed up just in time? Ok. The Myriam/Drakon appearance at least made sense. Their father appearing just didn't make sense at all and seemed just like a convenient way for Maas to be able to kill him off so she won't have to deal with him in future books focusing on Nesta and/or Elain. Grayson showing up at the end also seemed SUPER unlikely. She might as well have thrown the kitchen sink in there too. ha

[ufcasey]

May 16, 2017 8:25:23 GMT -5 abs said:

I didn't hate Nesta. I felt like I understood her character. I think she was simply afraid to trust others but she did show she cared deeply about her family in her own way. I mean, she is the first one that tried to save Feyre in book one. Now Elain....I spent a lot of the book wanting to slap her. But I got Nesta. I think we saw a pretty decent journey for her character.

I think part of the problem is that Maas started out the series with very clear goals and a solid direction. There was a lot of foreshadowing in ACOTAR. ACOMAF carried over that story perfectly and added some new twists. In ACOWAR there was just too much going on. Maas was trying to finish Rhys's and Feyre's story but also set up the spin off novels that weren't planned for in book one. It just didn't quite work.

That sums it up nicely for me

[bex]

See Elain bothered me less than Nesta. Yes she was boring and a wet blanket and just kind of....there. But because of that, I was able to tune her out and sort of ignore her role in the plot (which was pretty minimal, besides the whole killing-the-king scene, ha.) And I agree that was out of left field.

I don't have the book with me, but did the father's knee come up? I don't remember. How did he go on this huge trek to find help when he could barely walk?


I didn't hate the book, but as opposed to ACOMAF, the more I think about it the more I am just "meh" over it. And with ACOMAF, the more I think about it, the more I like it.

[bex]

May 16, 2017 8:25:23 GMT -5 abs said:

I think part of the problem is that Maas started out the series with very clear goals and a solid direction. There was a lot of foreshadowing in ACOTAR. ACOMAF carried over that story perfectly and added some new twists. In ACOWAR there was just too much going on. Maas was trying to finish Rhys's and Feyre's story but also set up the spin off novels that weren't planned for in book one. It just didn't quite work.

Yes I agree completely with this. It was not as blatant was what Cassandra Clare did in Mortal Instruments, where city of heavenly fire focused SO MUCH on the characters for the next series, but it still seemed like she was trying to create these plots that could not wrap up in one book.

I wonder if she either wanted to extend it a bit like TOG and make it 6+ books, and either her publisher told her to make this a trilogy with spin off books if need be, or she could not figure out how to drag out the specific Hybern story line for additional books, so she wrapped that plot up.

[pixy0stix]

This book is a steaming pile of garbage. I'm still at the beginning and I've rolled my eyes so many times at the characters, the set-up, and the writing that I'm worried I'm going to hurt myself.

MrsAxilla, I rec'd a bunch of urban fantasy. This is pure fantasy, though as it doesn't mix modern times (I was mistaken earlier). There is STILL a bunch of fantasy that is so much better than this series.

[ThirdandLong]

May 16, 2017 7:57:08 GMT -5 bex said:

*snip*

I read a review on goodreads that mentioned how there was no tension in this book, and I think that basically sums it up for me. I enjoyed it, I liked that there was closure on the main story of Feyre and Rhys, I liked Amren's storyline, etc. But part of the reason I took longer than anticipated to read it was that I just didn't feel this need to keep picking it up to see what happened next. The final battle was interesting (and I think the reason Hybern was winning was because of sheer numbers more than magic) but there was something "flat" about the book. I felt the same way about the ACOTAR - for the first half. The second half got more interesting for me, but I said in my review of ACOTAR that had I not peeked at ACOMAF, I probably would not have finished it.

I think what was missing from ACOWAR that existed in the second half of ACOTAR and almost all of ACOMAF was Rhysand. The best scenes in those books focused on his cleverness, his wit and sharp tongue, his scheming, his sass, his badassery. Rhys was a cardboard cutout in this book. Here to say the lines that we expect him to say. Here to be self-sacrificing and with a predictable use of power. He could have been so present in the meeting of High Lords, giving some incredibly sassy comeback to all of Tamlin's talk about Feyre's orgasm sounds... but no, he just sat there brooding and 'opening his mouth' to say something. The Rhys that said Mor could destroy her a-hole father whenever she wanted with his full support, the Rhys who provides a library sanctuary for abused women, the Rhys who always ensures Feyre's choices would NEVER have bartered Mor's safe place Velaris with her abuser Keir, would NEVER have made a deal with that prick Eris who drove a f*cking nail into his beloved cousin's abdomen and acted like it was no big deal. And he NEVER would have then argued, yelled at Mor when she was shaken and upset over these absurd developments. Rhys treated Mor like sh*t this book, and that is OOC for him. So much of his behavior was OOC, too doormat for Rhysand, Night Triumphant.

It was nice to see a bold, clever side to Azriel, but those scenes with Feyre could have been Rhys. The banter with Feyre could have been Rhys. Instead most scenes with Feyre and Rhys involved bedroom activities and heart-to-hearts, and I think the absence of Rhys' other attributes was felt in the narrative.

[pisces]

May 16, 2017 8:41:22 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

pisces - sorry to pull down your liking of the book! Hopefully it wasn't too much!

Not at all! I enjoyed reading your review and remembered more things that bothered me haha. I'll say I enjoyed the series overall and the characters, I love a happy ending.


But I'm just 'meh' about ACOWAR in general.

[bex]

May 16, 2017 8:50:39 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

This book is a steaming pile of garbage. I'm still at the beginning and I've rolled my eyes so many times at the characters, the set-up, and the writing that I'm worried I'm going to hurt myself.

MrsAxilla , I rec'd a bunch of urban fantasy. This is pure fantasy, though as it doesn't mix modern times (I was mistaken earlier). There is STILL a bunch of fantasy that is so much better than this series.

If you already hate it, you are going to be miserable for the next 600 pages lol.

[bex]

May 16, 2017 9:26:16 GMT -5 ThirdandLong said:

May 16, 2017 7:57:08 GMT -5 bex said:

*snip*

I read a review on goodreads that mentioned how there was no tension in this book, and I think that basically sums it up for me. I enjoyed it, I liked that there was closure on the main story of Feyre and Rhys, I liked Amren's storyline, etc. But part of the reason I took longer than anticipated to read it was that I just didn't feel this need to keep picking it up to see what happened next. The final battle was interesting (and I think the reason Hybern was winning was because of sheer numbers more than magic) but there was something "flat" about the book. I felt the same way about the ACOTAR - for the first half. The second half got more interesting for me, but I said in my review of ACOTAR that had I not peeked at ACOMAF, I probably would not have finished it.

I think what was missing from ACOWAR that existed in the second half of ACOTAR and almost all of ACOMAF was Rhysand. The best scenes in those books focused on his cleverness, his wit and sharp tongue, his scheming, his sass, his badassery. Rhys was a cardboard cutout in this book. Here to say the lines that we expect him to say. Here to be self-sacrificing and with a predictable use of power. He could have been so present in the meeting of High Lords, giving some incredibly sassy comeback to all of Tamlin's talk about Feyre's orgasm sounds... but no, he just sat there brooding and 'opening his mouth' to say something. The Rhys that said Mor could destroy her a-hole father whenever she wanted with his full support, the Rhys who provides a library sanctuary for abused women, the Rhys who always ensures Feyre's choices would NEVER have bartered Mor's safe place Velaris with her abuser Keir, would NEVER have made a deal with that prick Eris who drove a f*cking nail into his beloved cousin's abdomen and acted like it was no big deal. And he NEVER would have then argued, yelled at Mor when she was shaken and upset over these absurd developments. Rhys treated Mor like sh*t this book, and that is OOC for him. So much of his behavior was OOC, too doormat for Rhysand, Night Triumphant.

It was nice to see a bold, clever side to Azriel, but those scenes with Feyre could have been Rhys. The banter with Feyre could have been Rhys. Instead most scenes with Feyre and Rhys involved bedroom activities and heart-to-hearts, and I think the absence of Rhys' other attributes was felt in the narrative.

I think this is pretty dead on.  She created this character who then basically acted contrary to that character for the third book, if he acted at all. 

[MrsAxilla]

May 16, 2017 20:10:09 GMT -5 c7 said:

Spot on, ufcasey  and ThirdandLong . Spot. On.

I feel like she got burned out writing ACOWAR or something. It must be hard writing two series at the same time.

Yep.  I don't think she understands what the draw was, or maybe the draw was different for everyone.  For me, at least, his self sacrifice was not his best characteristic.  I liked how he empowered women without being condescending or dare I say?  Weak.  I'm sure there are lots of readers who disagree, and I'll admit the political climate while reading both colored my perspective, but I'm interested in equal partnership stories.  Book 3 did not deliver on that.  Rhys seemed like, "it's your decision, dear.  You choose, love.  Pick any crown you want, my queen."  Which is nice and all, but only if counterbalanced in some way.