So much focus on figuring out how/if you can get A to change her hours but yet little to no focus on dealing with the real problem - lack of proper management of this event. Which falls to both you AND your "chill" boss. You seem quick to write off your boss and not worry about enlisting his help. Nope - instead, lett's put this on the new mom who will JUST have gotten back from leave.
Yes so for the what 4th time, it's not A's issue, and I understand that even if she could flex her schedule for this one day (which she won't hence the issue is dropped), it will still leave us short staffed. I'd just like to know what else we can do from a management planning issue if someone quit? We were we supposed to say "oh sorry we have an event and someone still on maternity, so you can't leave until after this job until after the event"? No. I only say my chill boss because he approves anything and didn't feel comfortable asking A (for good reason). Could his management of staff time off (not maternity related, just regular PTO) use some work? Sure, but that's where I mean chill, he'd rather approve everything than deny the last to ask. My boss fought hard to get the temp during the other maternity leaves. We had a month and a half of 2 people out, then 3 for almost 2 months, even if you know about that ahead of time you just can't backfill for 3 people, I don't know of a company that will give you that much temp help. As I've said we're scrambling to find help elsewhere and wanted one more option which we've exhausted.
Edit to add: it's a mother related issue because it appears she can't/won't flex her schedule that day due to child care. We might have the same issue with a childless PT employee, if the work a certain schedule it's not easy to flex their hours even for one day.
No, it's not a parent issue.
It's an issue of a part-time employee reasonably refusing to work beyond part-time hours.
The reason for refusal is irrelevant.
If someone wanted to sit on her couch and drink wine in her underwear instead of working the event, that would be her prerogative.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Jul 25, 2017 20:21:05 GMT -5
I think what we're saying is that if a company is experiencing a staffing issue, there's something going on in the company that needs fixing. Other people going on leave isn't really surprising as people have to put paperwork in and make plans, so there should be plans for their replacement.
You're doing a lot of shoulder shrugging "what can I do" but as someone who has planned a few events that needed a lot of people, I absolutely knew beforehand who was doing what, when and the jobs assigned to said people at least a month beforehand.
Now if all of these people gave you two week's notice that they're not doing the event, that's different. But that's not what it sounds like to me, it was just one person that was a complete surprise. That should not have thrown an entire event off the rails.
Just sounds like there a ton of poor planning. On the company's , yours and your co-organizer.
Last Edit: Jul 25, 2017 20:25:37 GMT -5 by Leeham Rimes
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Sure, the person quitting was a surprise, but you could have 1. Asked them to make their last day the day after your event, 2. Hired temps immediately, or 3. Immediately gone to your boss about the early closure to get that cleared with the higher ups.
Managing includes both strategy and tactics. You need to develop better tactical skills here.
So much focus on figuring out how/if you can get A to change her hours but yet little to no focus on dealing with the real problem - lack of proper management of this event. Which falls to both you AND your "chill" boss. You seem quick to write off your boss and not worry about enlisting his help. Nope - instead, lett's put this on the new mom who will JUST have gotten back from leave.
Yes so for the what 4th time, it's not A's issue, and I understand that even if she could flex her schedule for this one day (which she won't hence the issue is dropped), it will still leave us short staffed. I'd just like to know what else we can do from a management planning issue if someone quit? We were we supposed to say "oh sorry we have an event and someone still on maternity, so you can't leave until after this job until after the event"? No. I only say my chill boss because he approves anything and didn't feel comfortable asking A (for good reason). Could his management of staff time off (not maternity related, just regular PTO) use some work? Sure, but that's where I mean chill, he'd rather approve everything than deny the last to ask. My boss fought hard to get the temp during the other maternity leaves. We had a month and a half of 2 people out, then 3 for almost 2 months, even if you know about that ahead of time you just can't backfill for 3 people, I don't know of a company that will give you that much temp help. As I've said we're scrambling to find help elsewhere and wanted one more option which we've exhausted.
Then maybe you need to have a polite but frank discussion with your boss or your boss's boss about this issue. This whole thing sounds like a company and management problem. And I know you're saying that you realize that it's not A's issue, that you're going to let it go, but you still brought it up in the first place in the hopes she could bail you/your boss out, rather unfairly. If this is really how your boss behaves, leaving everyone else overworked due to the staffing problems, then it's really no wonder that there was a mass exodus of some sort.
I promise I'm not a crazy coworker who only looks out for herself or a jerk or unsympathetic ... I've been burned plenty of times with stuff like this. Not having kids you get stuck working OT, weekends and whatever other crappy flex/shift no one else wants or can work due to child care and other issues....
Post by turnipthebeet on Jul 25, 2017 20:26:05 GMT -5
As someone who was on mat leave recently, nothing made me not want to go back than getting texts about work during my leave. Please leave her completely alone, and maybe apologize for having reached out. She's already full of nerves about going back - being away from her baby, picking up after being away for so long, etc. Dont add to that.
I think what we're saying is that if a company is experiencing a staffing issue, there's something going on in the company that needs fixing. Other people going on leave isn't really surprising as people have to put paperwork in and make plans, so there should be plans for their replacement.
You're doing a lot of shoulder shrugging "what can I do" but as someone who has planned a few events that needed a lot of people, I absolutely knew beforehand who was doing what, when and the jobs assigned to said people at least a month beforehand.
Now if all of these people gave you two week's notice that they're not doing the event, that's different. But that's not what it sounds like to me, it was just one person that was a complete surprise. That should not have thrown an entire event off the rails.
Just sounds like there a ton of poor planning. On the company's , yours and your co-organizer.
It is poor planning. I took a vacation almost a month before the event and didn't bother to plan staffing assignments before I left. I tried mocking as much of the last events staffing as I could, but one of those people retired, the other one quit (and they feel bad about leaving so soon, their new job requires them to start with less than what would be proper notice at their level) and so on and so on. Did I know about the retirement, yes, so I should have planned for that, but they fought us on backfilling that position due to a hiring freeze. I could go on and on with what you will all call excuses, but I promise you these staffing issues would have you pulling your hair out. I'm stressed too, I fell behind covering for everyone that was out (not a woes me just what happens) so I take the fall.
So much focus on figuring out how/if you can get A to change her hours but yet little to no focus on dealing with the real problem - lack of proper management of this event. Which falls to both you AND your "chill" boss. You seem quick to write off your boss and not worry about enlisting his help. Nope - instead, lett's put this on the new mom who will JUST have gotten back from leave.
Yes so for the what 4th time, it's not A's issue, and I understand that even if she could flex her schedule for this one day (which she won't hence the issue is dropped), it will still leave us short staffed. I'd just like to know what else we can do from a management planning issue if someone quit? We were we supposed to say "oh sorry we have an event and someone still on maternity, so you can't leave until after this job until after the event"? No. I only say my chill boss because he approves anything and didn't feel comfortable asking A (for good reason). Could his management of staff time off (not maternity related, just regular PTO) use some work? Sure, but that's where I mean chill, he'd rather approve everything than deny the last to ask. My boss fought hard to get the temp during the other maternity leaves. We had a month and a half of 2 people out, then 3 for almost 2 months, even if you know about that ahead of time you just can't backfill for 3 people, I don't know of a company that will give you that much temp help. As I've said we're scrambling to find help elsewhere and wanted one more option which we've exhausted.
But that's not how your OP reads at all. You wanted to know if you could legally force an employee to work outside of their hours. Even after your boss said he wanted to drop it, you wanted to know if you should go to HR to address it. Maybe they can force her to work (even if it is an asshole move)? No one here will be able to answer that for you.
Plenty of companies are properly staffed and willing to pay for temp help. We had full time, fully trained "floaters" whose entire job was jumping from position to position, to cover people on leave or whatever. You company could pay for solutions, they're just not.
This would have gone much differently had this been a vent of "We're totally understaffed and I have a huge event coming up. Any ideas on how to bridge the gap??" A is an easy target here and it's 0% her fault.
So much focus on figuring out how/if you can get A to change her hours but yet little to no focus on dealing with the real problem - lack of proper management of this event. Which falls to both you AND your "chill" boss. You seem quick to write off your boss and not worry about enlisting his help. Nope - instead, lett's put this on the new mom who will JUST have gotten back from leave.
Yes so for the what 4th time, it's not A's issue, and I understand that even if she could flex her schedule for this one day (which she won't hence the issue is dropped), it will still leave us short staffed. I'd just like to know what else we can do from a management planning issue if someone quit? We were we supposed to say "oh sorry we have an event and someone still on maternity, so you can't leave until after this job until after the event"? No. I only say my chill boss because he approves anything and didn't feel comfortable asking A (for good reason). Could his management of staff time off (not maternity related, just regular PTO) use some work? Sure, but that's where I mean chill, he'd rather approve everything than deny the last to ask. My boss fought hard to get the temp during the other maternity leaves. We had a month and a half of 2 people out, then 3 for almost 2 months, even if you know about that ahead of time you just can't backfill for 3 people, I don't know of a company that will give you that much temp help. As I've said we're scrambling to find help elsewhere and wanted one more option which we've exhausted.
I seriously don't understand half of what you're posting, as it all seems largely contradictory, but I especially don't get the defense of your boss. I guess it's nice that he wants to approve everyone's time off, but that's EXACTLY why you're in this mess. Why can't you backfill for 3 people?
Post by litskispeciality on Jul 25, 2017 20:42:20 GMT -5
Jewel I said my OP was poorly written. I only said it will be an HR issue because I would end up in HR for asking this person to work, which is why I wanted to talk it out. Clearly I was right not to push the issue again. I would never go to HR to force someone to flex their given hours, or work more hours, that's not even just unreasonable that's illegal and dumb.
I think what we're saying is that if a company is experiencing a staffing issue, there's something going on in the company that needs fixing. Other people going on leave isn't really surprising as people have to put paperwork in and make plans, so there should be plans for their replacement.
You're doing a lot of shoulder shrugging "what can I do" but as someone who has planned a few events that needed a lot of people, I absolutely knew beforehand who was doing what, when and the jobs assigned to said people at least a month beforehand.
Now if all of these people gave you two week's notice that they're not doing the event, that's different. But that's not what it sounds like to me, it was just one person that was a complete surprise. That should not have thrown an entire event off the rails.
Just sounds like there a ton of poor planning. On the company's , yours and your co-organizer.
It is poor planning. I took a vacation almost a month before the event and didn't bother to plan staffing assignments before I left. I tried mocking as much of the last events staffing as I could, but one of those people retired, the other one quit (and they feel bad about leaving so soon, their new job requires them to start with less than what would be proper notice at their level) and so on and so on. Did I know about the retirement, yes, so I should have planned for that, but they fought us on backfilling that position due to a hiring freeze. I could go on and on with what you will all call excuses, but I promise you these staffing issues would have you pulling your hair out. I'm stressed too, I fell behind covering for everyone that was out (not a woes me just what happens) so I take the fall.Â
Ok so if the company is refusing to fill positions that you need filled to have a successful event, then you should have gone to your boss and told him point blank "I don't have what I need to run this event. It just won't work. Here's a list of what I need and when I need it by"
There's no need for you to take one on the chin for the company's sake and I'm not necessarily trying to be a bitch to you, which is probably how I'm coming off.
I've worked for super shit companies before, one couldn't keep employees longer than 6 months, and just as "a" shouldn't have to have this be her problem, if your company sucks and refuses to give you what you need for your event to work, it really shouldn't be your problem, except to tell them "hey. You suck. You're not giving me what I need" preferably before the 2 week mark of the event.
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
I'm a co-worker, not A's boss, but I co-manage this event, so yes it's on me...however, how was I to know that the other person would quit right before the event? Not A's issue. Either way shouldn't require A to return or flex or do anything to cover that other person. If you can't ask A to flex, I'm sure you can't ask someone who quit to go to another job to come cover this event either. We're trying our hardest to fix the staffing issue, hence asking 2 other offices for help, even with that we're still short at least 1 or 2 people just to run the event.
I have a follow up meeting with my boss later this week to discuss the staffing issue. Since we can't ask A again, then the only option I can present is to close to office early, run the event with a skeleton crew and let him deal with the higher up's if they're upset. I'm sorry that I'm frustrated that I don't want to take the heat for this, but it's my issue it's my poor planning, so I'd rather vent (with poor storytelling) before I meet with my boss.
As I've said in 2 other posts now, I understand why she's doing this, I don't need to have kids to understand it. I'm frustrated because this will fall on me and apparently it should. Yes we had time to plan, and should have planned without A, but again we were counting on at least 1 other person and we've had some other staffing issues (including 2 other maternity leaves in the last 3 months) that are straining our office. And my company fought tooth and nail to give us PT temp coverage when we were down 3 staff members, I don't think they'll cover a temp for one night but I'll ask as a last resort.
The fact that you are using someone else to get information from this other person is fucking immature and so fucking unprofessional. I wouldn't do shit either for this company and you with this nonsense.
You need to grow up. Or have a baby as we get all the perks apparently.
Well yes you can ask her to work that day, but I think you should offer her something in exchange for her covering your ass. And if she still says no, well then you need to accept that and move on to another plan.
Is there an option where you can offer her additional comp time or other time off if she flexes her hours to help you with this event?
The employee was asked twice - the first time she made it clear that she'd have no part in the event. The second time she didn't even respond. Your boss didn't want to take it any further. What is there still to discuss, regarding A?
You are directing your frustrations in the wrong direction.
You know how you feel like you are having trouble staffing this event? Take a deep breath and realize that she has been busy trying to fix her own staffing issue. She had to find the right person to watch her child - someone she can trust, whom she can afford, who also can work on your company's schedule. You are not just asking her to change her own schedule but also to up end that new employment relationship.
I'm bristling at your attitude in this post, so I can only imagine how your coworker feels.
You admitted you fucked up by taking vacation at a key time and not planning properly beforehand, and then out of the other side of your mouth complain about PTO approvals.
You claim you understand her position, but state that it's a "mother issue" and then list reasons why parents get unfair advantages at your workplace.
It sounds like you are trying to pass blame for your mistake. Your expectations of this woman are unreasonable and your defensive attitude about it is annoying.
My company poorly manages staffing shortages, all the time, and then gets all surprised when events go poorly/offices close early ... and then spends an inordinate amount of time placing blame on PEOPLE who were not given the most basic tools/resources to succeed. In turn, those people turn on each other and point fingers to score points with hire-ups. Since people are blamed and not the underlying mis-management, the cycle continues.
I am currently looking for new employment opportunities.
Your upper-managers are wrong for acting like closing the office early isn't a reasonable solution. They are wrong for not approving temp staff, too - or whatever staffing solution works while so many people are out. They are giving you crumbs to work with and seem mystified that it isn't all panning out.
That happens a LOT to me. I can't take it anymore.
Also, as a coworker you had no business contacting her about her schedule. If anyone had to do that, it should have been her boss, who doesn't feel that it's an appropriate solution. Your questioning of it should be done now.
Have you actually gone to your boss with the issue and said "here's what we need"? You're throwing excuses in the road (even that a staffing company wouldn't be able to supply 3 people but have you actually looked into it?!?) but I don't know that I see you working with ANY Plausible solutions or talking to your boss.
I promise I'm not a crazy coworker who only looks out for herself or a jerk or unsympathetic ... I've been burned plenty of times with stuff like this. Not having kids you get stuck working OT, weekends and whatever other crappy flex/shift no one else wants or can work due to child care and other issues....
I see.
My radar is pinging .. but I'm too lazy to look at post history
Sounds like a swell place to work though, I just can't imagine why people keep leaving. This child-haver errrr I mean lady whose parental status is completely irrelevant to how you view her doesn't know how good she's got it!
I had a boss ask me while I was on mat leave to come in for a big commercial real estate closing. He offered his wife's services watching my D (who was about 3 weeks old at the time). His wife had 4 kids at home and they lived about an hour away from the office in traffic - 2 hours EXTRA commute, leave baby, come in to work when I didn't have to. The answer was no.
I didn't get my merit bonus that quarter, despite having a glowing review prior to leaving for leave. Guess what happened? That shit was hand delivered the day after it was decided I wasn't getting one.
To answer your question, you're shitty for even contacting someone on maternity leave about work, period. Friend or not, it's their time. This conversation shouldn't even take place because you don't have the right to contact her until the day she returns, at which point it's too late to even bother.
I agree with the others, I see why people don't stick around.
I work in event fundraising for non-profits and understand crunch time and events. I am usually in a small office and also understand how one person being out, one person quitting, and another retiring affect staffing events. The right thing to do in these situations is always to go to your boss with a summary of the problem, offer a list of possible solutions, review it with him/her and come to a decision. Your possible solutions could include asking A to switch hours that day to cover the phone and then your boss could say "no can do!" It could also include hiring temps or closing the office, which your boss can also say no to. Basically, if you go through all of your options and your boss says no to all of them it's then on him/her to help you brainstorm another solution.
I hope you realize that it wasn't cool to have another employee text A or for you to text A to ask to fill in. She wasn't the only solution to your problem but you made it out like she was because the boss has "typically said no to things in the past." That doesn't mean they will this time. And, it's really just your job to present some reasonable solutions and ask your boss for help from there.
When you are done venting and stressing, put together something to say to your boss that makes in clear that you have problem solved and come up with two solutions 1. Close early and/or 2. Hire some temporary workers. Outline what is required to have a successful event based on the success of the past, what you have now, and what you still need. Ask how he wishes to proceed.
But use that good business etiquette and language that I don't have.
Thank you, I plan to do this. I promise I'm not a crazy coworker who only looks out for herself or a jerk or unsympathetic, although I can see how this post looks that way. I only sent A one follow up message to clarify the only reason for asking for the flex in hours is to cover the office. If I'm going to bother you I think it's fair to explain the reason, as opposed to make you feel like you just have to do it for no reason other than to change your schedule. As I've said I won't speak to her again.
I've been burned plenty of times with stuff like this. Not having kids you get stuck working OT, weekends and whatever other crappy flex/shift no one else wants or can work due to child care and other issues so I can imagine how pissed A is to even get this one request. I do hope since my boss has lived through the staffing issue that they won't be as upset as I am and perhaps say this is what we have to deal with due to issues out of our control.
sorry but anything you say is now irrelevant to me
you dont have to have kids to say no to OT or whatever outside your regular job duties. but i'm going to give up trying to make you get it after this one more try:
You keep saying you can't hire temp workers, but that makes no sense. I used to run events at a previous job. We needed extra hands so we hired temp workers. It's super easy and inexpensive. You need to meet with your boss, explain why you need temp workers and then go call a temp agency to get them. This is not rocket science and can probably be resolved in the next 24 hours without asking a new mother to make an already stressful time more stressful.