Divorce corner

[HeartofCheese]

Guys. Help me find the words to explain to STBXH why he has to pay more for our joint expenses when he makes more money than I do. We still live together, but have divided our accounts. He's been giving me shit for making him pay 55% of utilities, our furnace payment, car payment, insurance, mortgage, the remaining balance on our new roof, etc.

I've reminded him that our standard of living is based on our joint incomes - not my income x2. But there's more to it than that and I'm not sure I can explain it without doing a bunch of research when I should be working...

[xctsclrx]

sounds like he is more interested in equal rather than fair. If you feel comfortable telling me which state you lived in I could pull up some of the spousal/child support laws.

Although instead of trying to change his mind can you guys just assign different bills to each other? DH and I have separate finances. I am responsible for my car, student loan, mortgage and groceries. He is responsible for child support to his ex, daycare for DS, his truck, and utilities,

When we sat down to do our budget we tried to break it down so that each of us had close to the same amount of money left over in the end. That way one person wasn't being killed by bills and the other was just skating through.

It works out well for us, but we are on the same team. Maybe if you explain it as you are trying to have the same amount of money left over at the end of the month he would be more receptive.

[HeartofCheese]

I'm in NY. I have access to material that will fill me in, but in order to beat my husband over the head with what is fair - I have to do a lot of research which I don't have time to do right now. Because at the exact same time that I throw my personal life up into the air, I get a big, time-consuming opportunity at work. But here's what I got (sans research):

1. If he's going to take 55% out, he's going to put 55% in.
2. He sounds like an ahole for trying to exclude $13k when it comes to providing for his kids.

[waverly]

I think it ends up being dependent on the state. I suppose it could be hammered out in the separation agreement if your state requires one before the divorce.

That's all I have, so just sending moral support.

[2chatter]

What's CS percent? Is he on board yet with paying CS and seeing the kids less?

If there won't be CS due to 50/50 - you are left with - it's 50/50.

I didn't receive CS for five years - you can do this - budget like he doesn't exist.

[freezorburn]

If I understand correctly, you're asking him to pay a portion of expenses that is proportional to his income vs. your combined total income? I think as long as you continue to be under the same roof, then nothing more needs to be said. Before you separated accounts, he was effectively paying X% of the expenses. He should continue to do so until you move into the next phase of your separation/divorce process.

When you move into different homes and determine the percentage of time kids are with either parent, it might change. Every state has a child support formula that determines payments to be made. It will likely take into account different kinds of income, as well as percentage of time with each parent. There may also be rules governing if and how you can deviate from the formula. Perhaps one spouse is unable to work. Or, in my case, at the time that we were negotiating, my availability to work was impacted by my son's disability. We were able to factor that in. Or if one party is feeling magnanimous and wants to give more money, they might be able to get a judge to sign off on that. I've heard of people rebalancing the amounts paid in CS vs. SS (spousal support, aka alimony) to reduce the tax burden, for example. So there are situations in which people deviate from the formula.

It will be important that you are both clear on what is covered in CS and what is not. My understanding is that (at least in my state) it is meant to cover living expenses that are difficult to quantify. Like I wouldn't begin to know how to figure out just what portion of the water bill is used by DS. And how much square footage does the child use/occupy, and how does that translate into your monthly mortgage or rent payment. Or if you drive your child somewhere, what is the cost of that trip? You could figure out your mileage and cost of fuel, but do you also include the cost of maintaining the car and insurance? And do you tell your ex that they are responsible for a %age of 1/2 the cost of the trip? Or is the child's portion of the trip proportional to the weight of their body, clothing, personal items, etc., in comparison to everything and everyone else that was in the car? It can get ridiculous, so that all gets lumped into CS.

What is NOT in CS is things like camp, or extracurricular activities. after school care. Some people will list out clothes or sports equipment, college savings, if and when kids get cell phones, how those expenses are divided, etc. It's helpful to list these out in your Child Support document. I neglected to itemize these extra expenses, and when I asked XH to contribute to child care so that I could work a part-time job, he pushed back. But he eventually gave in because I argued that it was a child-related expense that would have been shared had we stayed married. It's not like I was asking him to pay a sitter so that I could go out and paint the town red.

This is probably more than you asked for, but maybe it helps to see how it can evolve down to road, to give you a way to figure out your starting point now.

[xctsclrx]

I hate to say this and I really hope that I am wrong, but I don't think you guys are going to be able to do this without lawyers.

Right now he is treating you like a roommate that signed a lease together and each person is responsible for their half. If you guys do go to 50/50 then he is still going to say that he pays for the kids while they are with him and you pay while they are with you not caring that 50 of all the expenses is going to put you in a much tighter position.

I would really do what 2chatter, recommended. Budget as if he is not there. assume worse case scenario and then anything you get will be a pleasant surprise.

[akafred]

Sept 26, 2017 7:33:52 GMT -5 xctsclrx said:

I hate to say this and I really hope that I am wrong, but I don't think you guys are going to be able to do this without lawyers.

Right now he is treating you like a roommate that signed a lease together and each person is responsible for their half. If you guys do go to 50/50 then he is still going to say that he pays for the kids while they are with him and you pay while they are with you not caring that 50 of all the expenses is going to put you in a much tighter position.

I would really do what 2chatter, recommended. Budget as if he is not there. assume worse case scenario and then anything you get will be a pleasant surprise.

I agree, unfortunately. And maybe that (having to pay for lawyers) can be your leverage, but as things are, I think you have 2 main choices: 1) one parent (you) gets primary physical custody and the other parent pays CS and does visitation every weekend or every other weekend plus one night per week, or 2) you physically split custody 50/50 and no one pays CS. From what you have posted in the past about how he treats you and the kids, in your shoes I would shoot for option 2 without a doubt. However it doesn't sound like that will happen without attorneys. Which sucks.

[mommyatty]

No idea if this is good info, but here's what I found:

Under New York’s Child Supports Standards Act, child support is to be paid by the non-custodial parent to the custodial parent based upon the formula set up by the State, which is a percentage of your gross income after deductions for your FICA withholdings (which is 7.65% of your income). The non-custodial parent is the parent who has less than 50% of the physical custodial time with the child.

Further, if the parents have an absolute 50/50 split of physical custody with the child and there is no way to determine if someone has just over 50%, then the parent whose income is higher is determined to be the non-custodial parent and must pay the other parent child support. However, it is possible for parents to contractually agree to waive child support from each other.

And here's the other thing I found:

As an example, let’s say you have the majority of physical custody of your one child and you make $20,000, while the other parent makes $30,000. After adding your incomes ($50,000), the court multiples that total by a percentage per child, or “child support percentage.” These percentages are:
17% of the combined parental income for one child,
25% of the combined parental income for two children,
29% of the combined parental income for three children,
31% of the combined parental income for four children, and
no less than 35% of the combined parental income for five or more children.
In our example, the court would multiply $50,000 x .17 = $8,500. That product ($8,500) is the basic child support obligation. You would be responsible for 40% of that figure ($3,400) because your income ($20,000) makes up 40% of the combined parental income ($50,000). The other parent would be on the hook to pay 60% ($5,100). This means that the other parent would have to make payments to you over the course of the year that add up to $5,100. Because you have physical custody most of the time, the court will presume that you are spending your share directly on your child’s expenses.
In addition to the basic child support obligation, the court may tack on additional payments to cover child care costs if the custodial parent is working or going to school and for the child’s reasonable health care expenses. These payments are prorated at the same percentage as the support obligation (using our example, 40% and 60%). The court may also order payment for the child’s education.
If the combined parental income is more than $136,000 per year, the court has a choice. It could use the same formula as above for all of the combined income. Or, the court could use the formula for only the first $136,000 of combined income, and then decide how much (if any) of the remainder to award by considering these factors:
the financial resources of the child and each parent
the child’s physical and emotional health and any special needs and aptitudes
the standard of living the child would have enjoyed if not for the divorce
the tax consequences to each spouse
the non-monetary contributions that the parents will make toward the care and well-being of the child
the educational needs of either parent
whether one parent’s gross income is substantially less than the other parent's gross income, and
the needs of any other children of the non-custodial parent for whom that parent is providing support. (This factor may be considered only if the other children are not the subjects of the instant action and their support has not been deducted from the parent’s income.)

Again, no idea if the info is legally correct. And I'm not a NY lawyer so know no more about it than anyone else. But this is what Mr Google found.

[freezorburn]

If/when you get to the number crunching stage, you might see if you can get a certified divorce financial analyst to help, particularly if there are complexities to your case. I have no idea what they charge, but just wanted to say these people exist.

[akafred]

So from what mommyatty quoted, you can still get 55% of the 25% of your combined incomes in CS even if you split custody. Do I have that right?

[shakinros]

Sept 26, 2017 11:14:04 GMT -5 akafred said:

So from what mommyatty quoted, you can still get 55% of the 25% of your combined incomes in CS even if you split custody. Do I have that right?

That's how I read it too.

HeartofCheese this dude is not going to play fair by you and the kids. I know the last thing you need is another financial obligation but I hope you are able to get at least a consult with a divorce lawyer.

[HeartofCheese]

I am meeting with 2 more. It's hard to find an attorney I can get excited about going into a financial pit for. Right now the schedule I want breaks down as 75/25. He would see them everyday for 2 hours after work and have dinner with them, then take them overnight on Saturdays. He's opposed to anything that isn't 50/50. I told him I would do 50/50 if he did counseling first. He's opposed... I even told him we could try to work it out if he would do counseling (counseling is pretty key!). He's thinking it over while I'm looking for an attorney, so...

Next time I have drama, I hope it's something like "She's in love with 2 men!" or "Will she be disinherited?" or "Will she solve the mystery?" Not "Will she lose the husband and still be able to keep the kids?"