This mostly just making me feel extra anxious. It's good that something is happening, but it also feels like this is where we'll really see how far gone our democracy is. What is the administration going to blow up to try to get away from this? What are the Fox (and worse) believing people going to believe about this?
Ugh. I'm open to being told I should just be happy at progress, but I just have trouble seeing a way out of where we are.
Sure, but it's not Manafort's indictment that's causing the damage to our democracy, it's just illuminating how much damage has already been done. It is certainly unsettling, but I think if we're going to be able to fix it we need to know.
Post by leshoequeen on Oct 30, 2017 9:02:18 GMT -5
Hate to rain on the party but...the comments I'm seeing are all talking about how Manafort was working for Podesta during the timeframe mentioned in the charges. What's the story there?
According to Twitter, 45 is lunching with Pence and Sessions today. What's the agenda, I wonder?
in response to
But Sessions can't be involved in a decision to fire Mueller still, right?
When has that ever stopped them? That said I think Sessions is slimey enough to know not to cross that line. I have no doubt this is a how to handle this strategy session but I think 2 of the 3 know firing Mueller isn't an option at this point unless they really want this to blow up.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I'm so happy to be sharing this all real time with my internet friends!!
Me too. I’m surrounded by non-Americans who are just living their lives without the knowledge that wonderful things are happening!!
My cats give zero fucks and I work with a bunch of MAGATS. Saturday night I was at the kitchen and I asked one guy if he still supported IQ45. Of course he does. He likes "some of the things he's done." Dumb racist fuck.
Hate to rain on the party but...the comments I'm seeing are all talking about how Manafort was working for Podesta during the timeframe mentioned in the charges. What's the story there?
I Googled and everything I see in this is from Fox or similar except this, which doesn't seem particularly nefarious:
I see a lot of mentions of Cyprus (known intermediary for money laundering). I expect Wilbur Ross to be a big fish taken down - no one has focused on him but he is Manafort levels of dirty.
One thing I wanna clarify though, the "conspiracy against the US" is really just against the Treasury....it's another financial crime, not treason.
Right. It has more to do with how Manafort lied to Treasury and DOJ and tried to hide his financial dealings and his work for the Ukraine president. I think it's still really significant, but the indictment isn't saying that Manafort tried to bring down the US government or something. (not at this point, anyway.)
BUT re: the conspiracy charge. One of the reasons I think that is so significant is that I bet that same charge can (and will) be used against some of these other players. Mueller is pissed that Manafort lied to the DOJ. I'm sure Manafort wasn't the only one lying.
One thing I wanna clarify though, the "conspiracy against the US" is really just against the Treasury....it's another financial crime, not treason.
Right. It has more to do with how Manafort lied to Treasury and DOJ and tried to hide his financial dealings and his work for the Ukraine president. I think it's still really significant, but the indictment isn't saying that Manafort tried to bring down the US government or something. (not at this point, anyway.)
I appreciate you and capscapscaps keeping us honest here (sincerely), since it can be hard to understand what a lot of this stuff really means.
Hate to rain on the party but...the comments I'm seeing are all talking about how Manafort was working for Podesta during the timeframe mentioned in the charges. What's the story there?
I Googled and everything I see in this is from Fox or similar except this, which doesn't seem particularly nefarious:
It's also important to note that Tony Podesta (John Podesta's brother) runs the Podesta Group. John is not affiliated with them and has not worked/consulted for them. People are (purposefully?) conflating the two brothers. This does not in fact prove that John Podesta has ties to a satanic child sex trafficking ring run out of a pizza shop basement (that has no basement), despite what the Pizzagate conspiracy theorists will shout.
One thing I wanna clarify though, the "conspiracy against the US" is really just against the Treasury....it's another financial crime, not treason.
+1
You can be charged with "conspiracy against the United States" under 18 USC 371 if you conspire with someone to commit pretty much ANY crime. You can charge conspirators under 18 USC 371 for a fraud conspiracy where they simply are trying to email old ladies to woo them and convince them to send their savings accounts to their online "suitors," and even that would technically be "conspiracy against the United States." It really doesn't have the implications that it sounds like in terms of being a crime of treason or something like that. I mean, the statutory maximum sentence for a conviction under 371 is 5 years. It's not a treason/espionage statute -- it is literally just the catchall statute under which you can charge conspiracy to commit a crime.