So, as you can see, people have very strong ideas about sidewalks. Our surveyors have had people pull guns on them when out surveying to implement sidewalk connections on city owned right of way.
This right here is why knocking on someone's door telling them to shovel their sidewalk is not a good idea aliciabella.
We live out in the burbs in a subdivision that oddly has sidewalks. I didn’t think about it when we bought but we love it. About 80% of our hood has younger kids and everyone is always out biking and playing. It’s a pain in the winter for snow removal
Why do you say it's odd? I grew up in a suburb, and all the neighborhoods had sidewalks. It's only where I live now that I've realized some suburban neighborhoods don't have sidewalks.
I understand that shoveling is a pain, but honestly, isn't shoveling a driveway way more of a pain? If we have a driveway of any size, we will probably want to buy a snowblower anyway.
I just don't get neighborhoods without sidewalks.
It’s odd because it’s the only subdivision neighborhood around that has them. They only run through our development and connect to nothing.
So, as you can see, people have very strong ideas about sidewalks. Our surveyors have had people pull guns on them when out surveying to implement sidewalk connections on city owned right of way.
that's horrible. no excuse for that.
but how does this work? (I'm guess it's different in different cities/counties.) Like in my neighborhood where the streets are already fairly narrow and the lots are small. I don't see how they could possibly make the streets more narrow, so it looks like they'd have to use land on people's existing property.
As I said earlier, my particular street has sidewalks bc of the bus route, but on one of the streets I'm thinking of that doesn't, if they put a sidewalk in (similar in size to mine), it would almost be up to the front door of some of the houses. I'm all for sidewalks, but I'm curious about the mechanism of telling folks that their front yards are going to shrink.
Most of the time the city has reserved land (aka right of way) that doesn't have any improvements on it yet. It just looks like part of the lawn. People either don't understand where their lot boundaries are, or don't care and just assume that everything up the street are theirs.
If the street needs to be widened, though, or a sidewalk put in, they (the municipality) can take everything up to a foot or so from the house. That's happened in a few areas here, for better or worse.
It sounds like Pixy's municipality has taken a fairly risk averse approach to it. Most of the places around here with which I'm familiar have a "if you touch it, you fix it" approach, and are counting on the regular maintenance schedule to eventually catch up to the issue. My state did do a comprehensive overhaul of their existing sidewalk corner ramps a few years ago. My county has done something similar. Places with no sidewalks at all, but no angry citizens asking for them, are further down the list.
We're so risk averse that we've budgeted $2M a year to fixing our inadequate ADA infrastructure. Primarily closing sidewalk gaps. But, again, even with that budget our proposed end-date is 50 years from now. So we also leverage re-development and development to build/fix what the City can't get to.
Well, I don't know. I guess sidewalks? In my TH complex they're only on one side of the road so when I take my son for walks (pretty much daily), I'm going back & forth across the street. In my BFF's neighborhood (built in the 60s) the sidewalks are also only on one side of the street and they're also almost unusable due to tree roots taking them over. Most of my friends either don't have sidewalks or they're terrible like BFF's. So I guess if they're maintained and on both sides of the street yes. Otherwise, why bother? Most people in my complex just walk in the road anyways. And I'll bet the same is so for the not maintained sidewalks.
Because of this post, I just went out and looked to see what would have to be done to add sidewalks to our tree lined neighborhood. In my yard alone, at least 7 trees would need to be removed. There are a few that are pretty good sized around, and all of them are quite tall.
Our house is set back pretty far so it wouldn't be a big deal to have sidewalks there, but it would be a shame to lose the old trees that are within the easement. They house a variety of critters and birds, and provide some relief from the sun for our neighbors across the street. They get most of the shade from our trees, but I am sure that that much sun baring down in our front yard would affect us too.
Our neighbors across the street don't have much of a setback, and their overly long trucks would overlap the sidewalk from their driveway. Their next door neighbor has plenty of space, but there are a few trees that would be in the way. The next few houses on that side of the street have a big drainage ditch/moat in front, so it would take a lot of work to have enough drainage and a sidewalk in that area, and again, there are a few more trees.
Those houses don't have much of a setback. When the lawn people park on that side of the street they block the road, where on our side of the street there are a few spaces between trees that work better since the cars are at least partially off the street, (in the easement), but sidewalks would take that option out. Our street is so narrow that people reduce speeds to a crawl and practically inch by each other when two cars are coming from opposite directions at the same time. The other streets in our weird little unincorporated area are pretty similar.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the years to come.
I live on a dead end cul de sac, without sidewalks. I'd be fine with sidewalks as well. I don't really care as far as where I live. We probably get three cars down our street a day (including the mail truck, four if the UPS man comes this way) that aren't going to the 3 houses past ours so it's certainly a walkable street in that respect.
In general, I'm pro sidewalks, but it does seem like it's difficult for cities/towns/whatever to enforce the maintenance of them. I've been on a lot of bad sidewalks, which is maybe more frustrating to me than no sidewalks at all.
In general, I'm pro sidewalks, but it does seem like it's difficult for cities/towns/whatever to enforce the maintenance of them. I've been on a lot of bad sidewalks, which is maybe more frustrating to me than no sidewalks at all.
One of our city council members originally ran on fixing the sidewalks and the streets in our town. After she was elected the birdbath, excuse me, pothole, right in front of our house was fixed. A few months later they started fixing the walk/run/ride path through the greenway that's shared with a couple of cities.
It might be coincidence, but she's my favorite council member ever because of it.
but how does this work? (I'm guess it's different in different cities/counties.) Like in my neighborhood where the streets are already fairly narrow and the lots are small. I don't see how they could possibly make the streets more narrow, so it looks like they'd have to use land on people's existing property.
As I said earlier, my particular street has sidewalks bc of the bus route, but on one of the streets I'm thinking of that doesn't, if they put a sidewalk in (similar in size to mine), it would almost be up to the front door of some of the houses. I'm all for sidewalks, but I'm curious about the mechanism of telling folks that their front yards are going to shrink.
Most of the time the city has reserved land (aka right of way) that doesn't have any improvements on it yet. It just looks like part of the lawn. People either don't understand where their lot boundaries are, or don't care and just assume that everything up the street are theirs.
If the street needs to be widened, though, or a sidewalk put in, they (the municipality) can take everything up to a foot or so from the house. That's happened in a few areas here, for better or worse.
interesting.
well, I can't imagine not wanting sidewalks just for the sake of not wanting them and I don't really understand people who would prefer to walk on the road instead of a perfectly good sidewalk. but I can at least understand an argument against them if it meant that I'd have a sidewalk just outside my front door.
this was before we moved here, but on one of the streets that intersects with ours, the sidewalks were put in about 20 years ago. apparently, multiple families sold their houses and long-standing friendships between several neighbors were ruined when the sidewalk-wanters won and the sidewalks were put in on that road. This is not a fancy neighborhood and was less so 20 years ago, so I can't imagine it was a "keep the poors" out thing (but I could be wrong), I always assumed it was a problem the land issues.
eta: and I'm so glad the sidewalks did get put in! the road is busy as hell and I'd never walk on it if the sidewalks weren't there. I can't imagine someone with mobility issues trying to navigate it.
I actually find the sidewalk issue completely on topic for the board - government, rules/laws, who to contact in the government, racism/classism/discrimination, etc.
I actually find the sidewalk issue completely on topic for the board - government, rules/laws, who to contact in the government, racism/classism/discrimination, etc.
I'M TOTALLY ON TOPIC.
NitaX Mayhem? who said I'm causing mayhem? I'm educating. I've got links and everything! aliciabella managed to hit my hot-button "people who don't interact with their local government" issue on a topic smack dab in the middle of my wheelhouse. How could I resist?
Also, if you have them look into laws. We discovered in the past few years that our town doesn’t have a snow clearing ordinance. I called the police dept because H kept having to walk before sunrise on a busy street because the sidewalks were impassable after a storm and found out our town doesn’t have a law requiring clearing. I approached our mayor and he has been trying and the measure keeps failing because people decided it’s not fair to fine people when only some people have sidewalks and others don’t and it would place an unfair burden on the elderly. It makes me angry that it’s seen this way rather than the unfair burden on children and those who count on a safe walking route to get to work or public transit.
Repairs and having sidewalks redone every few decades are done by the town as part of our tax burden. We’re in NJ so our taxes are high, but at least we get certain services.
You called the police because a sidewalk wasn't cleared of snow on time?
I’ve called the city because of this and they’ve given tickets. Luckily our new neighbors are great and I shovel in front of their house if I get their first or they do mine if theyre their first. Or the guy with the snowblower just does the whole block because he’s amazing.
But if you own a house, you have a responsibility to shovel your sidewalk so people can pass.
But, you still called the police and tracked down the mayor for an unshoveled sidewalk? The is the most suburban insanity ever, lol.
My husband was having to walk on a busy street while it was dark out, as were the neighborhood kids trying to get to school (many of whom had no option). Anywhere else I’ve lived had laws about clearing within 24 hours of snow stopping. And it was a widespread issue, not just one house.
It’s not insane for you to have called. Like I said, I do it too. And I live in a city. So I guess it’s both suburban and urban insanity to want to walk 🤷🏻♀️
Post by hbomdiggity on Mar 13, 2018 15:59:12 GMT -5
sidewalks.
we bought in a neighborhood with a cute little shopping district, but there are no sidewalks to walk there so I rarely do. my nextdoor is full of olds witching about sidewalks because sidewalks = dreadful suburbia. 'cept I'm pretty sure downtown is full of sidewalks, yo.
I'm over here LOL-ing at the reference to a "couple of inches" of snow. COOL STORY, BRO. Talk to me when you get a foot of snow.
And no, I do not carry my mini-shovel that I have only for digging out my car around with me so that I can shovel random people's sidewalks.
Well I have a car shovel but I’m not shoveling random people’s sidewalks with it! I’m digging out my car and sticking a lawn chair in that hard earned spot! #dibsisreal
Of course I want sidewalks. I don't just want sidewalks, I want a walkable community, which means mixed-use streets or at least commercial property not too far away from residential. I don't want a "walkable" community with no sidewalks and no traffic where you can't walk to anything but the neighboring houses. No! I'm trying to live in a society, here. TBH, most of my front yard is sidewalk.
There's a development of million+ dollar homes going up a few miles from me and I was interested to see they'll have sidewalks, even though you won't really be able to walk to anything yet. Except maybe a recreational trail, which is nice.
Also, I run into my mayor at the grocery co-op and theater all the time, and I know where she lives, and I also have her email address.
In theory, we wouldn't need sidewalks, since streets are for everyone. EVERYONE. And bikes, pedestrians and even cars (I guess) could co-exist in harmony. But as it is, sidewalks, protected bike lanes, and travel lanes all segregated out (though anyone can use the generic travel lanes) is the safest option. wawa you probably know a lot about that kind of stuff.
this is a huge topic of debate in my world. Certian people are trying very hard to bring back the shared streets. the hot term is Woonerfs. thank you Dutch people. Whatever you want to call them, it's streets where cars aren't #1. They're making progress, but it's a thing you see in like hot infill shared use development, so it's not about to come to a residential subdivision 40 minutes outside of a major city anytime soon. But even beyond that it's such a hard sell in the US where people who drive cars think that the streets belong to them, that they have a right to minimum delay and maximum speed, so it just doesn't feel SAFE not to keep everybody in their own lane. We have too many places that should be quiet shared streets and are instead designed as high speed roadways.
So like...this - this is a hard hard sell. But does that guy need a sidewalk? nope.
Woonerf - yesss! Sorry, here I am lurking again, but can’t resist a good sidewalk discussion . I’m currently in grad school for planning. I spent the entire fall semester studying sidewalks lol. Here’s another Strong Towns article that speaks about the lack of sidewalks in Ferguson, MO. Extremely on topic around here...
“It was, after all, the fact that Mike Brown had been walking in the street that became evidence to police of his apparent criminality. Yet, as I precariously biked around Ferguson, I saw that walking in the street isn’t just common occurrence but a necessity when roads have few, scattered and often disappearing sidewalks.”
My neighborhood doesn't have sidewalks and I like it. The neighborhood I grew up in (small town) doesn't have them. I have also lived in neighborhoods with sidewalks and that was generally fine too. But one big plus living in a snowy climate - not having a sidewalk means you're not responsible for keeping it shovelled and ice-free in the winter. That was actually kind of annoying.
In my city, the places with sidewalks are generally much busier with cars than the neighborhoods without them... So generally quieter. ETA: I've never had an issue with walking in our neighborhood without sidewalks. We go on walks a lot.
This is my experience in my home town as well. Because of this I much prefer no sidewalks, there is way less cars in areas without sidewalks, so we feel safe walking without sidewalks.
In the current city we live in I prefer sidewalks but we live in a high rise in a very large populated area. We do not walk around here without sidewalks because there is so much traffic even in neighborhood areas.
I'm over here LOL-ing at the reference to a "couple of inches" of snow. COOL STORY, BRO. Talk to me when you get a foot of snow.
And no, I do not carry my mini-shovel that I have only for digging out my car around with me so that I can shovel random people's sidewalks.
Well I have a car shovel but I’m not shoveling random people’s sidewalks with it! I’m digging out my car and sticking a lawn chair in that hard earned spot! #dibsisreal
Stealing someones dug out spot that is being held by a broken umbrella or random piece of trash is a good way to get your tires slashed. The last storm we had, reports of damaged vehicles were insane. I imagine once the snow stops later tonight, and people are able to shovel out their cars, we will hear more stories.
I'm always so happy to have indoor garage parking on these days.
Well I have a car shovel but I’m not shoveling random people’s sidewalks with it! I’m digging out my car and sticking a lawn chair in that hard earned spot! #dibsisreal
Stealing someones dug out spot that is being held by a broken umbrella or random piece of trash is a good way to get your tires slashed. The last storm we had, reports of damaged vehicles were insane. I imagine once the snow stops later tonight, and people are able to shovel out their cars, we will hear more stories.
I'm always so happy to have indoor garage parking on these days.
We don't have sidewalks and it works reasonably well. We live in a rurban area that used to be its own tiny town surrounded by farm land and has been somewhat swallowed up by the encroaching city. Because we still have a town centre, it's pretty walkable, which I like. Traffic is mostly forced to slow down, and speed limits are very low. I still prefer living in a larger city, and then I like sidewalks if there's a lot of traffic. I loved how they would close entire streets in London for markets.
Stealing someones dug out spot that is being held by a broken umbrella or random piece of trash is a good way to get your tires slashed. The last storm we had, reports of damaged vehicles were insane. I imagine once the snow stops later tonight, and people are able to shovel out their cars, we will hear more stories.
I'm always so happy to have indoor garage parking on these days.
Well I have a car shovel but I’m not shoveling random people’s sidewalks with it! I’m digging out my car and sticking a lawn chair in that hard earned spot! #dibsisreal
Stealing someones dug out spot that is being held by a broken umbrella or random piece of trash is a good way to get your tires slashed. The last storm we had, reports of damaged vehicles were insane. I imagine once the snow stops later tonight, and people are able to shovel out their cars, we will hear more stories.
I'm always so happy to have indoor garage parking on these days.