Kids excluding kids

[k3am]

shakinros, I would not at all be upset about missing out on the mom cliques. FX that I get to do it next year.

[shakinros]

More on topic... so sorry for your DD mae0111. I think kids are just like this sometimes, and it all sounds familiar from my childhood. DD has experienced some of that excluding in K but luckily for us, she seems to be breezy about it for now and content to play alone. She’s also now good buddies with a kid who tormented her in Dec/Jan, who she despised enough that I asked the teachers to get involved. We’re going to his birthday party this weekend and every day she’s telling me what kind of things he likes that we could buy for his present. Go figure.

I suspect that the culture of this school established by her teacher and principal have made it worse than it needs to be. A new school will not be 100% free of incidents but would likely be better than what you’ve got. I mean, could it be worse???

Good opportunity to really ask those schools you’re considering how they handle situations like this and dig into their answers. What are their expectations for the kids socially, when do they intervene, how do they intervene, how do they assess if an intervention is working, what do they do if it isn’t, etc.

[mommyatty]

I agree this isn’t a generational thing. I remember kids who were excluded in school. I think now adults do try to nip that stuff in the bud. But if the teacher is as terrible as she sounds, it could be a pack mentality. The teacher picks on your DD so the other kids think she’s fair game.

And I hate the whole “girls are mean” thing. The only people who have ever excluded DD are the boys, led by the little shit I mentioned last week. The girls are certainly more civilized than the boys. There is one little girl DD said the other kids are kind of mean to. She won’t be back next year because she’s really far behind academically and appears to have learning disabilities the school isn’t equipped to handle. DD tries to make a point to include this little girl, which makes me happy. In fact, the dad is going to send her to a school next year to help her learn to deal with her disabilities and then is hoping to put her back in our school. In the meantime, he’s asked DH to include her in sports with the kids from our school, so obviously she and her dad don’t feel she’s been excluded.

[freezorburn]

Late to the party but wanted to chime in .... kids have always been cruel. I remember being excluded in preschool because my skin was "dirty." And in general as I went through the school system I didn't fit in for one reason or another. But I did manage to make a few friends along the way.

I think there is something to be said for environment/culture of the school. I find myself comparing my experience to what my son has, and it's mind-blowing how different things are for him. In my time, I feel like we were pretty much left to our own devices. But in my son's school I see a proactive approach to creating as optimal as possible, a social and emotional environment that supports students' readiness to learn.

My son'e school has a social-emotional curriculum that is integrated into the culture of the school. It's pretty amazing. Third week of kindergarten, DS comes home and tells me that his class wrote a charter. It describes the environment they want to create at school. Later on, they all have mood meters on their desks so that they can talk about emotional regulation. They've spent time talking about conflict resolution and problem-solving, when to work things out between peers and when is it time to ask for adult intervention. They have mix-it-up lunch every now and then, just a day of sitting with someone other than your usual lunch buddies.

DS might have a tendency to self-exclude at this stage. It will be interesting to see as he develops, whether any of his autism-related behaviors are pronounced such that his classmates think he is strange or annoying. At the moment, I have limited chances to observe, but I sense that they don't notice any real differences at this stage. Hopefully the school's culture would help foster understanding and acceptance. We shall see.

[vasc]

Apr 10, 2018 12:36:45 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

akafred , I appreciate that advice. I've been actively seeking a professional evaluation, and I have not been able to get anyone to even call me back. I do think that a lot of her behavioral issues were coming from her misery at school. Things improved SIGNIFICANTLY while she was home recovering from her surgery. They immediately flared up again just before she got back to school (like the night before), and then exploded after her first day back, when she told me what had been going on with her teacher. Since having it out with her teacher, she's acting out less and talking more, which is wonderful. I still want her to be evaluated because I do think there are some executive function deficits, but I am a little less concerned about generalized anxiety. I think school (her teacher and the kids) were making her anxious.

I do think that the school has set the tone. Despite repeated requests, there is no buddy bench. Despite asking for closer monitoring at lunch, kids still sit alone. Her teacher can be downright nasty, and the kids in her class are following her lead.

I also know that the mom cliques are powerful, and I am not in them. It's not a question of accidentally excluding with the moms. They all grew up here and never left. I grew up here, but I didn't go to the public high school, left for college, and did not immediately move back. So I'm out of the circle. The only moms that bother with me are the ones that moved into town later. I've reached out more times than I can count. Texts are ignored. They don't even respond if I say hello. So I supposed I can't expect more from their kids.

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  Not only is the teacher nasty in general, but she has targeted your DD.  The kids, seeing that teacher doesn’t like DD, want to keep a safe distance from her.

That being said, I’m a guidance counselor in an elementary school and one of the pieces of advice I give to students is “Be the type of person other people want to be around.”  That is broad and means a lot of things, of course, but if you really examine your DD, her personality at school, and the way she carries herself, is she the type that is going to “attract” a lot of friends?  If she’s anxious about school (rightfully so) and it’s manifesting itself in behavioral and other quirks that are anti-social, then that could be your answer to her exclusion.

i hope you’re able to get her into a new school ASAP.

[sdlaura]

shakinros none of the k parents drop off at our school. Our schools are all walkable (no bussing) and it’s a nice climate, so we walk up our street with lots of other parents and kids and then everyone waits around and chats until the bell rings. DD does aftercare so we don’t see everyone at pick up.

There are also moms night outs and there was a school gala and the cliquey parents all had pre parties. We are casual friends with some of the pre party parents and could have finagled an invite but DH didn’t want to go. I like all the other parents - I just feel like a bit of an outsider because I work, and most of the others either stay home or work part time from home. They know each other from waiting around and chatting before school gets out too, and having play dates on the afternoons or during school breaks while I’m at work.

[mellym]

Apr 13, 2018 11:22:29 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

shakinros none of the k parents drop off at our school. Our schools are all walkable (no bussing) and it’s a nice climate, so we walk up our street with lots of other parents and kids and then everyone waits around and chats until the bell rings. DD does aftercare so we don’t see everyone at pick up.

There are also moms night outs and there was a school gala and the cliquey parents all had pre parties. We are casual friends with some of the pre party parents and could have finagled an invite but DH didn’t want to go. I like all the other parents - I just feel like a bit of an outsider because I work, and most of the others either stay home or work part time from home. They know each other from waiting around and chatting before school gets out too, and having play dates on the afternoons or during school breaks while I’m at work.

This. They also seem to be on the PTO and you can see their group outings posted on Facebook or I see/hear the Moms from this group talking at the Girl Scouts meetings. I'm starting to meet more of these parents from DD1's activities and putting together who is part of the "in" group because they always ask if I know somebody else. I wouldn't say they purposefully exclude me though.

[waverly]

shakinros, that is me too. I have no idea if there really is even a clique let along if they are exclusionary. I am sure there probably is something related to the PTO board maybe, but I am not on the PTO. I decided I would rather volunteer in the classroom than do the PTO. And that is just a few times a year.

As far as other moms/ parents go, I would say most are nice and then we have a few jerks.

[mustardseed2007]

Apr 13, 2018 11:22:29 GMT -5 sdlaura said:

shakinros none of the k parents drop off at our school. Our schools are all walkable (no bussing) and it’s a nice climate, so we walk up our street with lots of other parents and kids and then everyone waits around and chats until the bell rings. DD does aftercare so we don’t see everyone at pick up.

There are also moms night outs and there was a school gala and the cliquey parents all had pre parties. We are casual friends with some of the pre party parents and could have finagled an invite but DH didn’t want to go. I like all the other parents - I just feel like a bit of an outsider because I work, and most of the others either stay home or work part time from home. They know each other from waiting around and chatting before school gets out too, and having play dates on the afternoons or during school breaks while I’m at work.

This this this this this. So many kids on our street that are the same age as my kids. They're always out finishing up playing when I drive my kids home from after care. (As a matter of fact, they are in the middle of the street, so I always try to come from the opposite end that they are playing). 

While they're drinking wine and chatting in the street, I'm driving home and my kids are sometimes already asleep in the back seat and I'm exhausted too. There's ONE other working mom on our street, and she said the same thing: she feels so bad she doesn't come home and run out there but she's tired, her kids are tired and instead of going out to talk she just starts dinner. It made me feel so much better to hear someone else say it cause I had been beating myself up over it.