Least favorite books of all time

[Deleted]

Oh god, if you cannot see how insulting and pandering it is to list every book with a black cast that your mama made you read in your bid to prove that other books handled the topic better and thus The Help sucks, I don't know what to tell you.

And to that point, aside from involving black folks and racism, I will say it again, ROOTS AND THE HELP ARE NOT ALIKE.

Kathryn Stockett did not dumb down her books for old white ladies, btw and that's not what I said anyway. I said that it resonated with people and hit big with readers because it was a somewhat light read that attracted people who wouldn't be interested in other books that explore those very broad themes or at least are very absolute in their thinking.

What Stockett did was write what she knew.

You can have all the opinions you like but it's insulting to compare and contrast two very different books simply because all black books seemingly look alike to you just because your mama handed you The Color Purple when you graduated kindergarten.

[mamasaurus]

Tess of the D'Urbervilles . I don't like much Thomas Hardy. He just kept layering on depressing shit way after he made his point.

[peekay]

Sept 18, 2012 17:04:58 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Oh god, if you cannot see how insulting and pandering it is to list every book with a black cast that your mama made you read in your bid to prove that other books handled the topic better and thus The Help sucks, I don't know what to tell you.

And to that point, aside from involving black folks and racism, I will say it again, ROOTS AND THE HELP ARE NOT ALIKE.

Kathryn Stockett did not dumb down her books for old white ladies, btw and that's not what I said anyway. I said that it resonated with people and hit big with readers because it was a somewhat light read that attracted people who wouldn't be interested in other books that explore those very broad themes or at least are very absolute in their thinking.

What Stockett did was write what she knew.

You can have all the opinions you like but it's insulting to compare and contrast two very different books simply because all black books seemingly look alike to you just because your mama handed you The Color Purple when you graduated kindergarten.

DUDE! NONE of the books that I listed have a black cast and or deal with racism as its main plot. NONE. I listed them as examples of good books I liked when I was growing up. They were about things that I was not dealing with in my life and I'm glad I read them. That's all I'm saying.

There are a lot of books that are better written. Some of them also handle the topic of racism, specifically black women in the south from that time period. I have read some of them and found them more compelling, specifically because the writing was better. The characters were more complex. They were interesting and thought provoking. IMPORTANT NOTE- I am not referring to Roots. I will repeat MYSELF "ROOTS AND THE HELP ARE NOT THE SAME AND I DREW NO COMPARISONS BETWEEN THEM". I found the help not that well written. I found Roots well written. THEY DEAL WITH DIFFERENT THINGS ENTIRELY. A different set of characters and an ENTIRELY different time period. I understand this, we are in complete alignment on that point.

The help does not suck. It's just not a good book from a purely literary standpoint and I don't think it deserves those specific accollades. This is something I believe regardless of any other book out there.

[Deleted]

uh huh

[peekay]

Sept 18, 2012 17:32:41 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

uh huh

I don't know what that means.

[peekay]

Sept 18, 2012 17:04:58 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

You can have all the opinions you like but it's insulting to compare and contrast two very different books simply because all black books seemingly look alike to you just because your mama handed you The Color Purple when you graduated kindergarten.

Also, I think this is a really shitty and undeserved thing to say to me.

[imoan]

Shitty and undeserved? A little dramatic... No?

[peekay]

Sept 18, 2012 18:33:16 GMT -5 imoan said:

Shitty and undeserved? A little dramatic... No?

Not really. She's saying all black books are the same to me and keeps insisting I'm saying things that I'm not.

Which is.... Shitty and undeserved!

[dochas]

Sept 18, 2012 16:31:51 GMT -5 heybetch said:

Oh dochas - I had to read that. Awful. Terrible. Some books are better served in my fire pit.

Okay- mine is Anna Karenina

I'm stunned! And so glad someone else hated it. I gave it to my Mother and said "please, I am begging you not to read this". She did and called me furious when she finished it. LOL.

I have not attempted Anna Karenina. And likely never will.

[augustblue]

Loved Prep but hated The Man of my Dreams. Also A Long Way Down by Nick Hornby

[textbookcase]

I didn't read through the whole thread, but a semi-recent one tht I HATED was The Memory Keepers Daughter.

I also hated The Old Man and the Sea with a passion when I read it in high school, but I think maybe I should give it another chance someday.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2012 14:11:29 GMT -5 peekay said:

Lol, okay that's a good point. I guess I cringe a little at the dumbing down of literature for the lowest common denominator. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted it's a topic of conversation and I fervently hope and pray for change.

I'm as WASPy as they come but my parents still had me read Roots when I was 12. I guess that's not the norm though. I am so grateful my parents stressed literature when I was a kid. I absolutely lived off books.

This was the insulting, pandering bit especially when combined with your previous statements.

So yeah, your pretty little feelings can be hurt all day long but what you said was ignorant, naive, and ridiculous.

Now I'm curious what books you've read that explore the complex relationship between black nannies who often left the raising of their children to others so that they could raise white children who would grow up to disdain them.

Please don't say Roots.

[imoan]

The more I read about peekay's vast literary upbringing, the more smug it sounds.

[peekay]

Sept 18, 2012 20:52:22 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Sept 18, 2012 14:11:29 GMT -5 peekay said:

Lol, okay that's a good point. I guess I cringe a little at the dumbing down of literature for the lowest common denominator. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted it's a topic of conversation and I fervently hope and pray for change.

I'm as WASPy as they come but my parents still had me read Roots when I was 12. I guess that's not the norm though. I am so grateful my parents stressed literature when I was a kid. I absolutely lived off books.

This was the insulting, pandering bit especially when combined with your previous statements.

So yeah, your pretty little feelings can be hurt all day long but what you said was ignorant, naive, and ridiculous.

Now I'm curious what books you've read that explore the complex relationship between black nannies who often left the raising of their children to others so that they could raise white children who would grow up to disdain them.

Please don't say Roots.

Okay, yeah, I reread what I said here and i get how it sounds snotty. I honestly thought you were saying that the book was oversimplified to cater to an audience who wouldn't read otherwise (I.e. the "southern white woman"). I was really trying to say I don't like when art is oversimplified to appeal to the masses.

I honestly, honestly wasn't saying that "omg, I know because I read ROOTS!!! I'm so awesome", I was just trying to say that I had a sheltered upbringing too but I was encouraged to educate the fuck out of myself so I don't think being sheltered is an excuse to be ignorant. Really, truly, this is all I meant.

I like books. All kinds of them. I don't think all books are the same, regardless of the content.

[ohiowan]

TWILIGHT series, saga, whatever, it's HOOOOOORRIBLE.
Night School.

[lemondrop]

Sept 18, 2012 21:02:54 GMT -5 imoan said:

The more I read about peekay's vast literary upbringing, the more smug it sounds.

I'm right there with you. I totally respect her parents for encouraging her and fostering a love of books, but it's really coming across as I'm better than you. I could be reading a lot into it. We was po and the local library didn't have much choice, so I wasn't raised on the classics and can't look down my nose at people about it.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2012 21:07:13 GMT -5 peekay said:

I was just trying to say that I had a sheltered upbringing too but I was encouraged to educate the fuck out of myself so I don't think being sheltered is an excuse to be ignorant. Really, truly, this is all I meant.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. You think the people who like The Help are ignorant?


One of my issues with some of the criticism of The Help is the seemingly insistence that the topic must always be treated with heavy handed reverence. I think it's an odd burden to place upon that particular topic and few others.

After all, one would say that the Holocaust is a serious topic to never be taken lightly and yet there are books that do take it on and tie things up in a near little bow, albeit one that doesn't involve shit pie so I guess there's that.

ETA: It's also rather simplistic to chalk up old southern white lady obsession with this book to ignorance, imo. There are simply too many factors at play. I think some of the southern population has a deeply ingrained outlook on the Civil Rights movement as a whole that keeps them from exploring the domestic aspect of it. I just think there's a large swath of the population who never gave it much thought.

[lucky513]

Where's Waldo

I could never find that fucker

[lemondrop]

Sept 18, 2012 13:49:40 GMT -5 peekay said:

Okay, here's a confession that would get me ostracized from my book club - I didnt love The Help.

I thought it was an okay story, I was "entertained" throughout in that it held my interest. But I think there are so many books that tackle southern racism and the complicated relationships with black nannies and white children that grow up to be employers that are FAR more compelling and insightful. I don't get why this book is being celebrated as some landmark.

There are books that tackle southern racism better, but I think the appeal in this one is the "white guilt." I really do. The entire book is about how Skeeter feels about the treatment of the black help, not about how the black help feels about how they're treated. FWIW, I enjoyed it. I thought it was one of the more well written best sellers that I've read in recent years.

[peekay]

Sept 18, 2012 21:14:42 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Sept 18, 2012 21:07:13 GMT -5 peekay said:

I was just trying to say that I had a sheltered upbringing too but I was encouraged to educate the fuck out of myself so I don't think being sheltered is an excuse to be ignorant. Really, truly, this is all I meant.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. You think the people who like The Help are ignorant?


One of my issues with some of the criticism of The Help is the seemingly insistence that the topic must always be treated with heavy handed reverence. I think it's an odd burden to place upon that particular topic and few others.

After all, one would say that the Holocaust is a serious topic to never be taken lightly and yet there are books that do take it on and tie things up in a near little bow, albeit one that doesn't involve shit pie so I guess there's that.

No, you specifically said that there are southern white women who "aren't going to get it". I mean ignorance of the issue. I don't think being sheltered is an excuse to pretend that racism doesn't exist and refuse to see it.

I don't think people who liked the help are ignorant. Hell, I didn't DISlike it. I read it for sure, I even saw the movie. I just thought it was.... Fine. I don't think it deserves the literary awards.

I don't think I'm better than other people. All I said was that I'm grateful my parents stressed education.

[missmaddie]

Wicked. Loved the musical though.

50 Shades of Grey

Eat, Pray, Love. Eat and Love were good enough, but Pray was painful.

The Lovely Bones. I re-read it before the movie came out to see if I was wrong...nope still hated it and don't get the hype.

A Tale of Two Cities

[Deleted]

I didn't mean to imply they wouldn't get racism as a whole. I'm talking about women who probably grew up in households where mom had help and never thought much about it. They know all about the larger themes of the civil rights movement, about keeping black children out of schools, Rosa Parks, we shall overcome.

But I can tell you first hand that there are plenty of people who've never given thought to how that era affected people in smaller ways and how pervasive it was. They think, well, momma and daddy were always nice to the help and our maid looooved me and I looooved her, etc.

To bring the smaller themes of that topic to a population who never really gave it much thought in a way that resonated with them is actually a pretty large feat.

[mamasaurus]

Sept 18, 2012 14:56:32 GMT -5 lishie said:

I HATED Atonement. I also didn't enjoy the The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao ... I know it won the Pulitzer, but I just couldn't get into it.

WHAT. Oscar Wao is one of my favorites! It may be the best magical realism since Gabriel Garcia Marquez! Do you not like magical realism?

[BookLover]

The Red Tent...Yeah, I didn't see what the hype in this book at all.
The Time Traveler's Wife...WTH was that mess?!
Anything by Jane Austen...I have never finished one book, I don't think I've even made it half way. I can't do it.

[ohiowan]

Sept 18, 2012 17:04:58 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Oh god, if you cannot see how insulting and pandering it is to list every book with a black cast that your mama made you read in your bid to prove that other books handled the topic better and thus The Help sucks, I don't know what to tell you.

And to that point, aside from involving black folks and racism, I will say it again, ROOTS AND THE HELP ARE NOT ALIKE.

Kathryn Stockett did not dumb down her books for old white ladies, btw and that's not what I said anyway. I said that it resonated with people and hit big with readers because it was a somewhat light read that attracted people who wouldn't be interested in other books that explore those very broad themes or at least are very absolute in their thinking.

What Stockett did was write what she knew.

You can have all the opinions you like but it's insulting to compare and contrast two very different books simply because all black books seemingly look alike to you just because your mama handed you The Color Purple when you graduated kindergarten.

Chriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiist--Peekay gave her opinion of a book and used a widely accepted term to describe it: dumbed down. Not actually calling it dumb. Anyone can synthesize information from a story in a personal way and compare it to a different book/story. It's literature, it's objective.

Now I have to read the help. Damn it.

[PinkSquirrel]

Old Man and the Sea makes me want to shank Hemingway