Post by sandandsea on Sept 1, 2018 20:29:44 GMT -5
How many hours a week do you work on average if you are full time?
Are there professional manager level jobs out there that don’t require more than 40?
I know my view is flawed because of where I live and what Dh and I do but it’s exhausting and I feel like there has to be better balance elsewhere I just don’t know where/how. I could try a flex schedule where I am but it shoots any aspirations of making partner out the window. And it will be hard to enforce and not end up working more for less pay.
This is so industry dependent, unfortunately. Sounds like you’re a lawyer? In which case... private practice maybe?
I am not at the office all that much these days. An average week is 40hrs at my desk, 35 or so of that spent working. even busy weeks now are 45hrs at the office, maybe 4 or 5 more at home.
When I worked in the arts, 45 minimum, 90hrs on the busiest weeks. No one worked less than that. I loved that part of my career, but the only way to get something sustainable for me was to switch industries entirely.
ETA: since I am not a lawyer, I actually have no idea what I’m talking about there. Basing my private practice comment solely on the lady who did our wills. She was a solo practitioner but seemed to have a nice steady business going.
I work fewer than 40 hours most weeks and I’m a partner in my firm - but I don’t manage anyone. When I started at my firm 10 years ago I put in more time. Now, if you count travel time to meetings (I have to do a flying day trip once or twice a week) then it probably evens out to 40 or a little more. I find that's pretty common where I’m located (San diego area) - professional people just don’t seem to move here to work crazy hours. I have clients and I’m expected to be accessible all the time, but on days I’m the office I often arrive at 8:45, take over an hour lunch to work out, and leave before 5.
ETA - it’s investment industry - intermediary role between investment managers and institutional plan sponsors. In my industry, people on the money management side typically work like crazy and make a ton of money, and people who are plan sponsors typically don’t make a ton and have fabulous hours and benefits (many are government entities). I’m in the middle.
I worked in financial services - marketing. It was a global job, so I would regularly have calls at 530am and 8-11pm. In addition, I would be in the office 845-515, no lunch, chained to my phone whenever I wasn’t there. 2-3 times a week I would be on conference calls during my commute.
I WFH most Wed and Fri, chained to my desk as soon as I dropped the kids off until 5 or 6, depending on DHs travel. So... 50-60 hours a week? And I totally felt guilty about not working enough hours. One of the big reasons I left.
On this topic, I really loved the book ‘I know how she does it’ by Laura Vanderkam. One of her arguments is that when people track their time very carefully, even people with super demanding/high hour count jobs aren’t working as much as they think they are. She also points out that nearly every week has some special issue - like a snow day or sick day or appointment or whatever - and that cuts down on work hours for people too. She believes that most working parents are spending way more time with their kids than they are working, when you look at mornings, evenings, weekends, holidays, vacations, snow days or whatever.
Oh and another thing about the book (can you tell it made an impression? - she advocates that rather than going part time and limiting opportunities for advancement and raises, that you instead see if you can just work a little less and get as much done. And instead of asking to work from home a day a week or whatever, just do it every once in awhile and be productive and talk about how productive you were and just do it when you feel like it going forward if no one complains. Obviously that won’t work in every firm or industry, but there are many more senior professional jobs where it will.
Post by sandandsea on Sept 1, 2018 23:47:26 GMT -5
I’m a cpa in public accounting. We have to track time in 15 minute increments to bill clients so I know exactly how much I’m working every week. I’m averaging 48-50+ hours on top of being the go to default parent as dh is at work by 8 every morning (after dropping of Ds2) and rarely Home before 8 and even if he is home, he’s back online from 10-12 nightly. He’s also still IN the office past midnight at least twice a week. So his hours are ridiculously high and unsustainable. I’m just debating if it’s worth looking or if the grass is just greener. I think this is also just where we live.
sandandsea that sounds terrible. I know a lot of people who work those hours (mostly DH’s b-school classmates) but they’re all the only income in their families. I feel like the benefit of two incomes is that hopefully no one has to kill themselves like that. And I don’t know a single person in San Diego who is ever at their office past 8 pm. But then a lot of people here telecommute since there are more people who want to live here than there are jobs here.
Post by traveltheworld on Sept 2, 2018 9:29:26 GMT -5
I was in private practice in BigLaw and now I'm house at an institution investment firm. I'd say I definitely work more than 40 hours a week, if you average it out on an annual basis. But I've aways had a lot of flexibility. I usually am at work by 9 and leave by 5, and then I log back on after the kids are in bed. I also stay late at work one night a week, usually till about 11, to try and get stuff done. But I work from home a few times a month, leave work by noon a few times a month, and in general just am not chained to my desk. The downside is that I'm expected to be on call 24/7 and there are weeks where I'd be working 80+ hours. I also travel quite a bit for work, and I really try to utilize those times to work more during the evenings since I don't have the kids.
I'd say that experience is pretty consistent across the board for the partners I used to work with and for the people I work with now. You don't necessarily work less, but you have better control over when you work.
Post by mustardseed2007 on Sept 2, 2018 10:26:38 GMT -5
I'm an in house lawyer in a family owned, mid sized company. I work 8:30 to 5 most days, but that book sdlaura references would be really true in my case.
On Wednesdays I tend to leave at 4:30 b/c DS has karate at 5:30 and I need an hour to get him and get him to karate. There are definitely weeks where I have to leave early for school things - like open house at DS' school is this week and I'll probably leave at 4:30. Also I'm going to meet a contractor about my walkway at 9, so I'll be in late on Tuesday.
I'm going to meet with my nutritionist next week and I'll leave at 3:30. Usually when I leave or I'm late, I do take calls in the car and email on my phone or home computer. Periodically I take calls on the weekend. Like my boss called me 3 times yesterday for short calls.
All in I would say I work 40 hours much of the time unless there is a big work project going on, then I might work more.
I work a lot of hours, but honestly I’m not always as productive as I might be. Part of that is being a supervisor. I spend time that feels wasted but is actually ensuring my guys know I care about them and appreciate the work they are doing. Also I travel a ton, and when I travel, my hours are loooong. Like if I’m on the West Coast, my day starts between 5 and 6 am local time, goes until 4-5 in the evening local time, ends with a dinner with coworkers or outside counsel until 8 pm local time. Maybe a 30 minute break in there somewhere.
When I’m back in the office, if I’ve been traveling, I’ll knock off early a day or two to recharge or do neglected stuff if my schedule allows it. This is at the urging of my EVP, who watches me burn out and tries to stop it.
I think you all know I'm edging on burnout.... I work in a hospital a multisite and I swear I work min 60 hours in the office. At least 2 times a week I start at 4am, this is only like this since I moved to GA.
I am not currently a manager. Where I work it is 40 hours base for non-managers, and then depending on the job sometimes overtime. Thankfully mine doesn’t have much, but when it does it is a killer. Managers typically work no less than 50 so I have consciously decided not to “lean in” to that. I am leaning way, way out .
I look at places like LA and I do not get it! How do you work full time, commute in crazy traffic, and have time to enjoy the lovely weather?
I look at places like LA and I do not get it! How do you work full time, commute in crazy traffic, and have fine to enjoy the lovely weather?
Exactly. Why live in a great crazy expensive place if you can’t enjoy it!? I’ve been leaning in a lot and pushing for partner but am questioning if it’s really worth it. I do have flexibility but I still work a lot. I’d like flexibility and 40. I hate career crossroads. I either do path 1 or 2 and am so torn.
I am in the social science / education industry not a teacher. I work 37.5 hours a week and am a manager. It’s a lower paying field. I don’t make 3 figures for example. DH makes good money and I am the default parent so we are ok that I am not a huge earner. However I have health insurance, a pension and a supplemental retirement account. And in the event that DH loses his job we can make it work in my salary and unemployment so it is a nice cushion from his business field which is typically more volatile.
I am both not mommy tracked and mommy tracked, and I am with pp that said I am definitely leaning out.
Post by covergirl82 on Sept 4, 2018 8:09:44 GMT -5
I work in HR in the healthcare industry, and I'm an individual contributor. I have a 9/80 schedule, so one week I work a minimum of 45 hours and the next week I work about 36 hours. When it's my busy time (Aug - Oct), I tend to work 50+ hours my longer week and 40+ hours my shorter week.
At this point in my life, I can't imagine being in a management role because it would be too many hours for me. I wouldn't be able to leave at 4:00 to pick the kids up for whatever evening practice or activity they have that night.
I am in the tech industry. I work between 40 - 45 hrs/week during slow times. When we are busy trying to get a software release out the door, that number inches closer to 50/55.
I've made it very clear to my office that I am off when I leave the office. My coworkers try very hard to do what they can without me before trying to contact me after hours. Since there is only 7 in our office and I'm the only one who can do my tasks, I do check emails on my phone up to 5 or 6 pm.
I feel bad for my one coworker who kind of leads our office. Sometimes he is taking calls at 9 pm with the owner.
The wanted to add my job is more customer facing so I don’t tend to get a lot of issues after hours, but it limits my work from home options as I need to be there in person to talk with my team and customers.
I work in for state government. Our hours are 37.5 hours a week and I am a manager. The good thing about budget cuts is that you only are allowed to work 37.5. I do answer emails and calls after hours, but not a ton.
I work in for state government. Our hours are 37.5 hours a week and I am a manager. The good thing about budget cuts is that you only are allowed to work 37.5. I do answer emails and calls after hours, but not a ton.
I generally work 7:30-4 each day with a half hour lunch. But I can flex my schedule around if I need to shift my hours on any given day. I just have to hit 40 hours. Since I'm a salaried manager in a role that involves a lot of events, there are some weeks that I'm definitely working more than that. But it's really because of the "extras" of my role. Until I took on that piece, it was pretty easy for me to stick to 40-45 hours and have a reasonable schedule.
I am a salaried manager and it varies wildly. Some weeks are 70 hours but those are rare. Average is 40-50, largely because I WFH so i don’t have a commute and also because I can’t leave things be sometimes.
I work for an executive branch agency in State government. I'm a managing attorney in the general counsel's office. I supervise one employee. I mostly work 40 hours - and my schedule is flexible. During busy times (i.e. contract execution/end of the fiscal year, etc) I work more hours - like 45-50.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
That brings up a good point. It may be different for teachers if they can’t leave campus, but how do you all count your lunch time? Because 7:30-5:30 where I work would be 45 hours since an hour of that each day is lunch time (even if you don’t take it and eat at your desk while working). I typically work 7:30-4:30 and consider it 40 hours even if I eat at my desk 3-5 days a week.
I haven't been a teacher in a long time, but my lunch was the same time as the kids, so I don't even know if it was a full 30 minutes or not. More like 20-25. Most teachers are not getting an hour.
I worked 6:30-3 and then came home and worked 5-7. I never stayed until 5:30 at the actual building, but I might if I had signed up to coach or do other extra curriculars. I was a beginning teacher, so I probably had a lot more lesson planning than teachers that have done it every year, of course nowadays curriculum can change fairly often.
I am faculty at a university, with a 9 month teaching contract it varies wildly throughout the year. My typical school year schedule is 8:00am - 4:30pm on campus, and then from 8-9:30pm at home typically grading papers and responding to email, etc. This can vary wildly depending if something is going, like I have a major grant due, and then it's more time. In the summer though, the state doesn't pay me, and I am funded based on external grants, for June/July/and all but the last week of August, I typically work 9:00am-3:30pm. But I also don't get paid based on how many hours I work, it's a set salary, except in the summer, when I may not have enough external funding to pay for those months. But often, I can take a kid to the doctor or more things around with enough notice, as long as it isn't class related.
I agree. I don’t think I would subtract lunch for most teachers. Having to stay on campus and scarf down lunch in like 20 minutes isn’t a “break.” But most non-teachers get a lunch break.