But why is anyone rounding when the word "within" has a very specific meaning? I'm really not trying to be an asshole here. I think that facts matter. Warren could have made her (salient) point by saying 20 or 25 years. In which case I would say, point Warren.
If you're using 4th grade rounding, 29.12 is closer to 30 than 25 or 20. If you're going to die on the hill for 11 months vs. 9 years, please go sit in the corner.
Again, why is anyone rounding? Where did that talking point come from? I am legit confused by it. And no I am not going to sit down, I find it offensive to be told that as a woman (yes despite my username I'm a woman).
I indicated previously I will stop commenting here if that's the consensus but I will not sit down.
Of course I care. I think she was on he verge of a really good zinger, but she lied in the process of making that point so she undercut herself. It doesn't make sense.
Ok, obviously my commentary here isn't fruitful. I just want to note that I have made every effort to be respectful even while disagreeing, and I have not laughed at, mocked, or insulted anyone.
Post by suburbanzookeeper on Jan 15, 2020 0:55:19 GMT -5
This is not a "I didn't know the guy" level misstep. If it happened in 1990, by basic math numbers, in 2020, it was 30 years ago. I don't understand the level of distaste over this.
Just because I’m a glutton for punishment, what do you think Warren gained by “lying” and saying “within 30 years” instead of “in nearly 30 years,” which would not be a lie?
I really don't know. This is my point. I don't know why she went that route.
Enough. This is insane. If you would "concede" the point had she said 20 or 25 years, clearly nuance is not beyond your understanding. Stop playing like you don't understand the point she was making.
No, the nuance is not lost, I said in a previous post that she had a salient point had she not fudged her numbers. I'm not playing at anything.
I am far far from a Bernie supporter but I get this point on the years. I feel like someone gave her that info once and she ran with it without checking which was unfortunate. I really wish she had researched that statement and used 25 or 20 so that he wouldn't have had a come back on the semantics of her statement even when the sentiment stands. It was just a minor misstep of hers that made me cringe.
I really don't know. This is my point. I don't know why she went that route.
No, the nuance is not lost, I said in a previous post that she had a salient point had she not fudged her numbers. I'm not playing at anything.
I am far far from a Bernie supporter but I get this point on the years. I feel like someone gave her that info once and she ran with it without checking which was unfortunate. I really wish she had researched that statement and used 25 or 20 so that he wouldn't have had a come back on the semantics of her statement even when the sentiment stands. It was just a minor misstep of hers that made me cringe.
Really? I am very VERY good at my job, and I’ve been a fact checker for public statements made by candidates (obviously not presidential) and it would NEVER occur to me that the use of “30 years” would be an issue in this context. I would have marked that correct and moved on. I would not assume that she didn’t fact check because again, it is a perfectly customary way to count decades.
Watching the actual exchange she more than made her point, Bernie looked like a mansplaining idiot trying to get credit for something he did a long ass time ago, and she definitely care out ahead even if the Bernie Bots of the world don’t care to listen to reason. They’re not being courted in this primary.
And frankly if John whatever is actually a dude as the username suggests (and also potentially it he isn’t) I am perfectly happy to allege sexism as the reason these tiny details are being hashed out. Male candidates on that stage have made HUGE gaffs, blatantly lied, etc and nary a word from anyone, but a difference of opinion on rounding is characterized as a bald faced, calculated LIE? Give me a break.
By NOVEMBER 2020, Bernie’s supposedly amazing 1990 win over a Republican (during a midterm year when Rs controlled the White House and the economy was beginning to falter) will be 30 years ago and then Warren will be the only one on that stage who defeated an incumbent Republican WITHIN the last 30 years. And I do believe the election in which we can defeat Trump is in November.
Also Bernie tells on himself about whether he’s part of the establishment when he admits he’s been in Congress for that long.
If someone asks me when something happened and I know it was in 1990, and today is 2020, I would tell them it happened 30 years ago. I wouldn't figure out the precise month and tell them "It happened 29 years, 2 months, and 8 days ago." I mean, I don't think anybody would. Nor would I say it happened 25 years ago, which is less accurate.
Anyhow, I donated to Warren last night, and it's the first time I've ever given money to a Presidential candidate. I was so annoyed by everything lol.
I came in looking forward to reading commentary about the debate. I thought it was a really great one. Probably the best one I have watched. I appreciated the civil tone and each candidate bringing it back to reality that "Hey by the way Trump is terrible."
I came in looking forward to reading commentary about the debate. I thought it was a really great one. Probably the best one I have watched. I appreciated the civil tone and each candidate bringing it back to reality that "Hey by the way Trump is terrible."
I see the thread got derailed.
I’d like to see a Berner come on here to discuss policy difference, instead of picking apart phrases for technicalities which, ultimately, are irrelevant in the big picture.
Other candidates seem to be able do that (which I appreciate, since i think hearing about different approaches to the same problem is really beneficial in advancing the progressive dialogue), but with Bernie you just get shouting, defensivensss over minutiae, and “well ACTUALLY...”
I just try to imagine him sitting down to discuss policy and solutions with bipartisan leadership, and all I see is him yelling and finger wagging in the Oval Office, including against the democrats. His behavior shows nothing of being able to actually WORK with people who don’t agree with him.
OMG these two threads between yesterday and today have made me hate Bernie even more JUST BECAUSE OF his rabid supporters. They are literally the same as 45's supporters.
OMG these two threads between yesterday and today have made me hate Bernie even more JUST BECAUSE OF his rabid supporters. They are literally the same as 45's supporters.
I feel like you get me on this. I grew up in Bernie territory. I’ve respected him my whole life. When he announced his candidacy in 2016 there was no doubt in my mind that he would have my vote in the primary. He and his crew have ACTIVELY LOST my vote and my respect over the part few years. Not due to isolated incidents but the slow, steady drum beat of holier than thou, condescending bullshit that acts like people who don’t toe the party line are moderate trash. If there’s one thing I hate in life it’s being spoken to like I’m stupid and I’m about sick of being told I’m wrong and dealing with the alternate fact universe and being shouted over. Especially when it comes to health care policy because goddamnit I havent dedicated my life to this to have some hacks come along and tell me that the perfect is the enemy of the good and I’m a neoliberal shill.
ETA: and making assumptions about me like I’m some privileged out of touch person who doesn’t care about low income people when I grew up dirt poor and most of my immediate family still lives in poverty. I guarantee I’ve personally done more to alleviate the material conditions of poverty in my (much shorter) career than Bernie Sanders has. I refuse to apologize for that.
... And frankly if John whatever is actually a dude as the username suggests (and also potentially it he isn’t) I am perfectly happy to allege sexism as the reason these tiny details are being hashed out. Male candidates on that stage have made HUGE gaffs, blatantly lied, etc and nary a word from anyone, but a difference of opinion on rounding is characterized as a bald faced, calculated LIE? Give me a break.
This is one of the things about sexism (and privilege or lack thereof in general) that bothers me so much because it can be so hard to get people to see it.
People in the majority demographic are given *so much* more benefit of the doubt. People outside of it have to do so much more to avoid being picked apart.
OMG these two threads between yesterday and today have made me hate Bernie even more JUST BECAUSE OF his rabid supporters. They are literally the same as 45's supporters.
I feel like you get me on this. I grew up in Bernie territory. I’ve respected him my whole life. When he announced his candidacy in 2016 there was no doubt in my mind that he would have my vote in the primary. He and his crew have ACTIVELY LOST my vote and my respect over the part few years. Not due to isolated incidents but the slow, steady drum beat of holier than thou, condescending bullshit that acts like people who don’t toe the party line are moderate trash. If there’s one thing I hate in life it’s being spoken to like I’m stupid and I’m about sick of being told I’m wrong and dealing with the alternate fact universe and being shouted over. Especially when it comes to health care policy because goddamnit I havent dedicated my life to this to have some hacks come along and tell me that the perfect is the enemy of the good and I’m a neoliberal shill.
ETA: and making assumptions about me like I’m some privileged out of touch person who doesn’t care about low income people when I grew up dirt poor and most of my immediate family still lives in poverty. I guarantee I’ve personally done more to alleviate the material conditions of poverty in my (much shorter) career than Bernie Sanders has. I refuse to apologize for that.
100%. I still live in Bernie territory. I felt like I was taking a risk putting up a Hillary sign in my VT yard during the primaries. But my god, the way his supporters talk down to everyone and treat them so poorly, I refuse to be lumped into them and vote for him (unless he wins the primary nom).
It is objectively not a lie. Do you want to address the substantive point here or just argue a pointless distinction? Does it ever get boring being so one note? This is the second thread you’ve derailed today by honing in on one tiny detail, claiming others are lying, and deflecting from actual points being made.
It is a lie. If you want me to go away, I'll go away.
When people ask me how long I’ve been married, I will tell them 11 years. It’s actually 10 years and roughly 335 days, but I round up. And if they ask how old I am, I will say I’m 45, even though I’m 45 and 2 months.
These are not lies. This is how people frame time when we are talking about years.
Ok, obviously my commentary here isn't fruitful. I just want to note that I have made every effort to be respectful even while disagreeing, and I have not laughed at, mocked, or insulted anyone.
Anyone who feels that the precision of 29 years, 2 months, and 8 days is important probably also recognizes that Warren said "30" and not "3.0E1" So I fail to see how they can claim she's incorrect.
I enthusiastically voted for Sanders early in the 2016 primary, but by the time the convention rolled around, this kind of utter nonsense had put me off him entirely. I can only assume that johncandy is a Trump supporter or otherwise actively campaigning against Sanders, because no sensible person could possibly think that this approach would win support from anywhere.
This is why I am not voting for Bernie in the primary. I live in NH and am honestly not sure who I am voting for next month. I feel like this is a test that I haven't managed to study for, I was perviously all in for Senator Harris and kind of lost steam once she dropped out. Then I was going to vote for Secretary Castro, I just don't know. I guess I am leaning towards Warren.
The #NeverWarren and #WarrenIsASnake hashtags are full of foreign bots and trolls (Russian and probably other countries, too). And people are still falling for it. Use your brain, people!
I’m about to paint with a broad brush here but by far the most posts I see about not voting for her if she’s the nom because they want to teach the party a lesson are white males, the group that has close to nothing to lose under another Trump win. You aren’t fucking progressive if you’re willing to sacrifice multiple SCOTUS seats, not to mention HUNDREDS of more lower court seats for the rest of your damn life. These people need to grow up.
This is why I am not voting for Bernie in the primary. I live in NH and am honestly not sure who I am voting for next month. I feel like this is a test that I haven't managed to study for, I was perviously all in for Senator Harris and kind of lost steam once she dropped out. Then I was going to vote for Secretary Castro, I just don't know. I guess I am leaning towards Warren.
Just sitting on your bench because I was all in for those same two candidates and now feel a bit lost (though will likely vote for Warren). I didn't even bother to watch the debate and am somewhat irritated I bothered to read this thread, though it did, perhaps, solidify for me that I will indeed take Biden any day over Bernie.