Post by amandakisser on Jan 16, 2020 14:26:43 GMT -5
Sorry, all, the $6500 was a typo, LOL, it was $2500. But STILL! A lot of money. It was about ten years ago so that's all paid off...but it obviously happened again so, yeah. Fuck.
I really appreciate all of the responses - I definitely have been feeling like *I'm* the one doing something wrong here, but I know that's not the right mentality to have. You're helping me work through these things and it's good for me to hear that this isn't just a case of me being stingy (which is obviously what he has told me before). You all telling me that something isn't adding up is validation for me. I've got some good points to consider.
To answer another question someone had: no, he doesn't care about debt. Like at ALL. He is in a high-stress, dangerous job and he strongly feels like he will die young so why bother saving money (he has a pretty large life insurance policy oddly enough). I can agree to an extent (the world is on fire, so enjoy life while you can) but we still have bills like everyone else.
I just read your update and it seems like there might be a much bigger issue going on here. The time for a CTJ talk is right now. He racked up $6500 in 2 months? On what? He stole from your children? Just no. He needs to have NO access to any money other than cash of a pre-determined amount that you give him. I would also put a freeze on your credit, his credit, and your daughters credit. If he does not agree to this, then I don't know what you can do honestly.
This is also a very good suggestion and I would do it, like, immediately.
I'd like to reiterate and urge you to do this TODAY.
Post by amandakisser on Jan 16, 2020 14:39:32 GMT -5
We refinanced our mortgage and just closed on that three weeks ago. So there's no crazy credit issues (I'm checking now anyway, but not worried about that honestly). I'll definitely keep an eye on it though, and I'll point-blank ask him what he's spending his cash on. I'll also reduce his weekly allowance and take even more control over the finances. He won't be able to purchase anything without running it by me, and I also closed his overdraft account so he can't use that either.
All our valuables are in a safe, and he has the combo - do you think I should relocate those, too, just in case? I REALLY don't think he will do anything with those...but I also didn't think he'd take money from our kids either, so I don't want to take any chances now
I feel like my DH has a somewhat similar mindset in that he is NOT focused on saving, has a bad habit of spending small amounts every single day (coffee, convenience store, and lunch out every.single.day. adds up A LOT). He's lived on his own before so I know he's capable of paying bills, but he hasn't been responsible for it since we've been together and I would worry about him forgetting or not having a good system to remember.
Our system is all combined and I handle everything, but we are totally non-cash, so I can see all his spending on the credit cards we use daily (and pay off monthly). We don't have set budgets in that if he goes over what is generally allotted to him, there aren't any consequences. This has been an issue in our relationship that we never really resolved (other than us slowly earning more and me lowering my standards for what we *should* be spending/saving).
So all that to say, I agree with others that especially after your follow up, separate accounts doesn't seem like the answer here. I'd also want to go full credit/debit so you can see everything, but the credit freeze also seems wise if you think he would try to open separate accounts on his own.
Re: his mom, omg, eyeroll. But that is HER problem. I definitely wouldn't be happy about him going to her, but I kind of also feel like you shouldn't bother worrying about it either.
Have you checked his and your credit reports lately? Seems possible that he took out credit cards (even store credit cards) that he never told you about - and hasn’t paid. Pretty easy to get “electronic statements” that go to his email and not your home address.
I would want peace of mind to know nothing like that is on your credit reports.
DH and I married later in life and both of us are used to managing our own finances so we kept separate accounts. He pays the bills for the house and I pay the bills for groceries (which is how this has broken out with regards to our income - I also moved into his paid for house) and my personal bills. He knows how to access my accounts, I know how to access his and we have shifted money back and forth as necessary.
However, neither of us have misused money. Neither of us have out of control spending. All of the bills get paid without problem and on time. TBH, your problem isn't really a bank account issue but a spending problem.
So, are you sure there isn't an underlying drug or gambling problem? I say this because we see patterns at the bank - if people don't have the cash for drugs - they take their suppliers on a shopping spree. "Pick out what you want at Kohls" in in exchange for drugs or a much smaller cash value for gambling. Often one spouse just assumes their credit/debit card has been stolen and then low and behold it is a drug or gambling problem. $6500 in two months in alarming to me.
Post by followyourarrow on Jan 16, 2020 14:53:18 GMT -5
Giving him cash only is good. I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope counseling is helpful, but I'd do everything I could to protect yourself and your kids in the meantime. Make copies of all statements and credit reports, the new mortgage, etc, and keep them someplace safe.
Post by amandakisser on Jan 16, 2020 14:56:13 GMT -5
Oh he for sure has a drinking problem - he has several glasses each night. I am fairly certain that when he "borrowed" money from our kids it was to buy a box of wine.
Before anyone asks, yes, I've asked him if he can go a night without drinking, and the answer is no, he can't. He also thinks it is too much, but won't do anything to stop. Hence couples counseling
Post by thelurkylulu on Jan 16, 2020 14:57:55 GMT -5
We have separate accounts, but we have no issues transferring money back and forth if one of us needs it for something. DH makes a lot more than I do, but we essentially split everything 50/50, except for a couple of the bills, which he pays because he makes more. A lot of our friends have combined accounts. We just never did and it has always worked for us.
I would be LIVID if I were in your shoes. Like PP said, this would be grounds for a CTJ talk and if he didn’t want to get help to get his spending under control, he could go stay with his momma forever. His reckless spending isn’t normal and could have lasting consequences for you.
Post by iheartbanjos on Jan 16, 2020 15:06:31 GMT -5
Marriage counseling is a great start. I’d look into Dave Ramsey’s program, Financial Peace University. Maybe start by reading the Total Money Makeover.
Working together with honesty and transparency will do a lot more good than totally separating finances.
Our finances are joint now, but they were separate when we lived together before marriage, and I was going to outline how we handled that. But then I read through your followup comments, and yeah, this isn't about finances. There are so many problems here, and I'm so sorry. I wouldn't want to live like this either, and I'm glad you're taking steps to protect yourself. Unfortunately for right now, acting like his mother is pretty much the only way to protect yourself, so it's good that you're doing that.
Does he know this is your last straw before leaving him? What is his response to that? I hope counseling either somehow works a miracle on him, or helps you see what your next steps need to be for your and your kids' best interest and safety. ((((hugs))))
Our finances are joint now, but they were separate when we lived together before marriage, and I was going to outline how we handled that. But then I read through your followup comments, and yeah, this isn't about finances. There are so many problems here, and I'm so sorry. I wouldn't want to live like this either, and I'm glad you're taking steps to protect yourself. Unfortunately for right now, acting like his mother is pretty much the only way to protect yourself, so it's good that you're doing that.
Does he know this is your last straw before leaving him? What is his response to that? I hope counseling either somehow works a miracle on him, or helps you see what your next steps need to be for your and your kids' best interest and safety. ((((hugs))))
No, he doesn't know this is the last straw. I've communicated my unhappiness to him a few times over the last several years. He is always hurt and upset, and will make changes (i.e. waking up on his own in the morning and not relying on me to do it. I left early today and didn't wake him up...he overslept and then blamed me for not waking him up ) so I've never had to follow through with anything drastic. But old habits die hard and they've crept back in.
Last night when I found out he got into the piggy banks, he started making passive-aggressive comments to our daughter like, "are you taking mommy to bed? She's obviously cranky," or, "remind your mom I'm working overtime this week so she needs to calm down." I don't communicate as clearly as I should about problems because those are the typical responses I get. He's better than he used to be, but I don't think "good enough" is what I deserve, frankly.
Well, there is at least part of your answer. He's an alcoholic and he's stealing from your kids to feed his habit. This is a very, very big deal and unless he is willing to seek help and work on the issues, there isn't a damn thing that you can do about it. Protect yourself now. Make copies of everything. LOCK DOWN YOUR CREDIT AND THE CREDIT OF YOUR DAUGHTERS. Make sure that he doesn't have access to any of your bank accounts/credit cards, and hide your valuables. I've seen this too many times and unfortunately it doesn't usually end well for the sober partner. It CAN, but in those cases, the person who is sick is actually willing to get help and accept their faults, that does not sound like it is the case at all for your right now. I reiterate, it is time for a CTJ and if he isn't willing to work on things immediately, they you may need to seriously consider the future of your marriage. I'm worried for you and your girls.
ETA: I would highly recommend that you seek out an Al-Anon meeting for at least yourself. There are red flags all over the place.
Last night when I found out he got into the piggy banks, he started making passive-aggressive comments to our daughter like, "are you taking mommy to bed? She's obviously cranky," or, "remind your mom I'm working overtime this week so she needs to calm down." I don't communicate as clearly as I should about problems because those are the typical responses I get. He's better than he used to be, but I don't think "good enough" is what I deserve, frankly.
WHAT??? So he's deflecting and instead involving the kids in adult matters. So wrong... so, so wrong (which I'm sure you know).
We refinanced our mortgage and just closed on that three weeks ago. So there's no crazy credit issues (I'm checking now anyway, but not worried about that honestly). I'll definitely keep an eye on it though, and I'll point-blank ask him what he's spending his cash on. I'll also reduce his weekly allowance and take even more control over the finances. He won't be able to purchase anything without running it by me, and I also closed his overdraft account so he can't use that either.
All our valuables are in a safe, and he has the combo - do you think I should relocate those, too, just in case? I REALLY don't think he will do anything with those...but I also didn't think he'd take money from our kids either, so I don't want to take any chances now
Absolutely yes, today if possible, otherwise tomorrow.
Our finances are joint now, but they were separate when we lived together before marriage, and I was going to outline how we handled that. But then I read through your followup comments, and yeah, this isn't about finances. There are so many problems here, and I'm so sorry. I wouldn't want to live like this either, and I'm glad you're taking steps to protect yourself. Unfortunately for right now, acting like his mother is pretty much the only way to protect yourself, so it's good that you're doing that.
Does he know this is your last straw before leaving him? What is his response to that? I hope counseling either somehow works a miracle on him, or helps you see what your next steps need to be for your and your kids' best interest and safety. ((((hugs))))
No, he doesn't know this is the last straw. I've communicated my unhappiness to him a few times over the last several years. He is always hurt and upset, and will make changes (i.e. waking up on his own in the morning and not relying on me to do it. I left early today and didn't wake him up...he overslept and then blamed me for not waking him up ) so I've never had to follow through with anything drastic. But old habits die hard and they've crept back in.
Last night when I found out he got into the piggy banks, he started making passive-aggressive comments to our daughter like, "are you taking mommy to bed? She's obviously cranky," or, "remind your mom I'm working overtime this week so she needs to calm down." I don't communicate as clearly as I should about problems because those are the typical responses I get. He's better than he used to be, but I don't think "good enough" is what I deserve, frankly.
I don't even know you and I know you deserve so much better than this situation. It's not your fault things ended up here, and it is your job to protect yourself and your children from where you're at.
Last night when I found out he got into the piggy banks, he started making passive-aggressive comments to our daughter like, "are you taking mommy to bed? She's obviously cranky," or, "remind your mom I'm working overtime this week so she needs to calm down." I don't communicate as clearly as I should about problems because those are the typical responses I get. He's better than he used to be, but I don't think "good enough" is what I deserve, frankly.
omfgggg I would blow my top. And what you're describing here is a *far* cry from "good enough." Just because he used to be worse doesn't mean this is anywhere near ok. I recommend individual counseling for you in addition to marriage counseling, so you can get some perspective. I wish you the very best of luck.
I just wanted to be a voice in the choir that your expectations are not unreasonable and you deserve better. I don't want you to have any doubt in that regard.
Post by newnamesameperson on Jan 16, 2020 15:50:57 GMT -5
WE do not have separate accounts.
Based on his current behavior there is NO means to reduce the mental load in terms of bill responsibility.
In your situation, I'd take the following actions before making a determination of leaving him (not saying you are thinking it, but it'd be on my mind). I wouldn't want him to cause me any further issues in the interim.
All work related paychecks would go directly into my personal account. From there, I would pay all bills. The mental stress of someone failing to pay the bills or using that money for other activities other than bills would not be worth it.
I'd put a freeze on my credit so no one could open any new credit cards. In addition, I'd put a freeze on his credit (so he would not be able to also).
I'd have him have his own debit card which I'd deposit X amount for fuel and fun.
All kids monies would be reimbursed immediately and kept out of his access. This is super messed up.
I'd also monitor my credit/his credit report frequently.
We have a joint account from which the household bills are paid, and then we each have individual accounts for spending money.
How much was in the piggy bank? My husband is famous for hitting the kids’ wallets when we have food delivery and he has no cash on him to give the delivery person a tip. But that money is always replaced. And it’s like maybe $5 at a time.
I just have a story for you -one of Hs friends had a wife with a serious spending problem. She felt she needed every luxury in the world. It started out small like a $2500 maxed out card and then it grew to multiple cards. Then her not paying energy bills and medical bills because she was making minimum payments on her credit cards to be able to keep using them. They were married for 9 years and he tried to have separate finances for a year before finally filing for divorce when she bought A MERCEDES. He had stuck his head in the sand about her spending and got stuck with 1/2 of $100k of credit card debt plus she took 1/2 his 401k and 1/2 his pension because she had cashed hers all out years before...which he also got stuck with 1/2 the tax penalty for. Yes, this is an extreme story but I’m telling it because you need to figure out what is going on here before it becomes like my Hs friend. Your H is stealing from his kids AND you and has absolutely no remorse or care about it. Don’t get 9 years down the road and screw your self financially because you thought it was minor and easily solved by separating finances.
I don't want to quote in case you want to delete, amandakisser, but the way he is talking about you to your children is not okay. My father did that to me re: my mom and as an adult, it still affects me.
My mom, on the other hand, used my SSN to get cell phone lines and other things when I was in high school and then didn't pay the bills, so when I went to try to get a credit card or car loan for myself, I was fucked. So I would highly recommend freezing your children's credit no matter their age now.
I'm sorry you are going through this and I wish you the best.
Post by icedcoffee on Jan 16, 2020 16:25:18 GMT -5
Your concerns and expectations are totally reasonable. I wish you lots of luck as you navigate this. I'd lock things down and start individual and couples counseling ASAP. Big hugs!
Last night when I found out he got into the piggy banks, he started making passive-aggressive comments to our daughter like, "are you taking mommy to bed? She's obviously cranky," or, "remind your mom I'm working overtime this week so she needs to calm down." I don't communicate as clearly as I should about problems because those are the typical responses I get. He's better than he used to be, but I don't think "good enough" is what I deserve, frankly.
Jesus Christ, amanda, you have to know [the bold] is not ok. On what planet is it ok to get your young daughters involved in adult finance questions, and in such a gross manner to boot?
That is not normal--$2500 in random spending in 2 months, raiding a child's piggy bank? Come on.
I agree w/ the others re: a CTJ conversation--what you are describing is not sustainable. I have a spender for a husband, and while it's not near as dire as the situation you describe, I too know that some of the $$ things going on with our finances is not sustainable.
I'm going to speculate that you probably do communicate quite well. Alcoholics are master manipulators and really good at turning the attention to the other person's reaction as the problem in order to deflect their own behavior. He has zero motivation to change because her hasn't had to deal with any consequences. Everyone else has handled the fall out, so to speak.
Even if he isn't an alcoholic, he is manipulating and gaslighting you. I don't care how long you have been together, you are not responsible for cleaning up his messes. Let his mother if she wants, that's her choice. Good for you for not waking him up.
I'm really sorry you're dealing with all of this. I'll also recommend Al Anon. It has really helped me a ton.