Oh man, the lane hierarchy is legit. My kid is 11 and has been dealing with this BS since she was 5. Our team has the same philosophy basically. Figure it out. And it really is good advice. And trust me, its the same on all teams, especially at that age. Those kids take their place in the lane seriously.
So I would always tell DD to pass them. It's that simple. Get in front, if you can't then you don't belong in front.
Post by sandandsea on Jan 16, 2020 16:24:33 GMT -5
Admittedly I don’t know how swim lanes work at your practices but couldn’t your child just leave more space so she’s not right behind the other child, have other swimmers go between them, or go first so no one is in front of her? Also she should talk to the coach directly to state her problem and seek help in addressing it.
Wow, that's horrible. I would go back to the coach and talk to him/her in person. I would explain all the ways you've gone about it, that this is not fair to your daughter, and bullying is not something that the "kids can just work out." I would insist she be switched to a different lane. Major WTF? to that coach!!! Plus, the coach has been allowing this to take place repeatedly during practice. I'm sure she sees some of it going on! I can't believe that she didn't give the girl consequences immediately, and then, if that didn't work, changed the kid's lanes herself!!!
Also, is your girl friends with the other girls in the lane? If so, I feel like the bully should be made to move, not your daughter.
Are you ready to pull your daughter? I would see that as the next step if things don't change.
Oh man, the lane hierarchy is legit. My kid is 11 and has been dealing with this BS since she was 5. Our team has the same philosophy basically. Figure it out. And it really is good advice. And trust me, its the same on all teams, especially at that age. Those kids take their place in the lane seriously.
So I would always tell DD to pass them. It's that simple. Get in front, if you can't then you don't belong in front.
This is where I’m lost (I’m truly asking not being sarcastic) should she kick punch pull drown someone to pass them when they are moving to the middle of the lane and kicking and slapping her over and over to stop her from passing?
Honestly if that’s how she’s supposed to do it, we’ll drop swim at this point. She’s been swimming on this team for 4 years and her old coach would have never allowed anyone to physically hurt another person. I think that’s where I’m lost.
So just like all sports, there are going to be kids that are a little more aggressive with it. But let's be honest, one 8 year old kid cannot prevent another 8 year old from actually passing them, if they are truly faster. They just can't unless they stop swimming and physically hold your kid back. And well, I'd be taking a video and putting the coach on blast. So, if your child truly is a faster swimmer, then swim ahead. If she isn't then she needs to wait 5 seconds after the girl ahead of her pushes off the wall and then go.
I promise you I have literally had hulk out moments watching kids fight over lane positioning, so I get it. One kid used to drag my kid under and then swim right over her. It will pass. She will learn to get faster so she can swim around her. And honestly, this is just one of those life lessons sports offer. Some kids cheat, some kids play ugly, but you don't take your ball (or goggles) and go home. You stay, worry about your self, work on your game, and improve. T
This is where I’m lost (I’m truly asking not being sarcastic) should she kick punch pull drown someone to pass them when they are moving to the middle of the lane and kicking and slapping her over and over to stop her from passing?
Honestly if that’s how she’s supposed to do it, we’ll drop swim at this point. She’s been swimming on this team for 4 years and her old coach would have never allowed anyone to physically hurt another person. I think that’s where I’m lost.
So just like all sports, there are going to be kids that are a little more aggressive with it. But let's be honest, one 8 year old kid cannot prevent another 8 year old from actually passing them, if they are truly faster. They just can't unless they stop swimming and physically hold your kid back. And well, I'd be taking a video and putting the coach on blast. So, if your child truly is a faster swimmer, then swim ahead. If she isn't then she needs to wait 5 seconds after the girl ahead of her pushes off the wall and then go.
I promise you I have literally had hulk out moments watching kids fight over lane positioning, so I get it. One kid used to drag my kid under and then swim right over her. It will pass. She will learn to get faster so she can swim around her. And honestly, this is just one of those life lessons sports offer. Some kids cheat, some kids play ugly, but you don't take your ball (or goggles) and go home. You stay, worry about your self, work on your game, and improve. T
Huh. I feel like swimming is wayyyy not for me if this is how it is. I played club and high school varsity soccer. I'm not unfamiliar with rough interactions between kids on sports teams, but I honestly don't ever remember it being this kind of catty. There were lots of scuffles and we certainly played dirty against other teams at times, but this shit didn't happen with my own teammates. I guess swimming is different in that it's sort of more individual?
So just like all sports, there are going to be kids that are a little more aggressive with it. But let's be honest, one 8 year old kid cannot prevent another 8 year old from actually passing them, if they are truly faster. They just can't unless they stop swimming and physically hold your kid back. And well, I'd be taking a video and putting the coach on blast. So, if your child truly is a faster swimmer, then swim ahead. If she isn't then she needs to wait 5 seconds after the girl ahead of her pushes off the wall and then go.
I promise you I have literally had hulk out moments watching kids fight over lane positioning, so I get it. One kid used to drag my kid under and then swim right over her. It will pass. She will learn to get faster so she can swim around her. And honestly, this is just one of those life lessons sports offer. Some kids cheat, some kids play ugly, but you don't take your ball (or goggles) and go home. You stay, worry about your self, work on your game, and improve. T
Huh. I feel like swimming is wayyyy not for me if this is how it is. I played club and high school varsity soccer. I'm not unfamiliar with rough interactions between kids on sports teams, but I honestly don't ever remember it being this kind of catty. There were lots of scuffles and we certainly played dirty against other teams at times, but this shit didn't happen with my own teammates. I guess swimming is different in that it's sort of more individual?
Our team works as a team. We really don't talk about it being an individual sport because all the meet points earned go to the team. Add in relays and - there is a lot of working together to get team goals accomplished.
I would really just focus on the message that in all things your daughter can only control herself and how she responds to things. Does she love swim? If yes, then forget the mean girl and do your thing. Don't love it? Ok, then lets find something you do love.
Does she currently compete? Is she really faster then the other girl? Then teach her to be assertive! If she is really catching up to her after giving her 15 seconds off the wall then my guess is that her 25/50 free times are MUCH faster then this other girl. Have her tell the girl that. "No. Today I am leading the lane. My free time is faster then yours." That's usually how our girls go in a lane. Depending on the stroke they are on, they kind of line up based on 50 times. Faster ones in front, slower ones in back. At the wall, move over if someone touches your feet. But again, at 8. It's all about who wants the spot the most and who has the bigger mouth. If your daughter wants to lead the lane, then she needs to just take it. That's it.
Our team works as a team. We really don't talk about it being an individual sport because all the meet points earned go to the team. Add in relays and - there is a lot of working together to get team goals accomplished.
I would really just focus on the message that in all things your daughter can only control herself and how she responds to things. Does she love swim? If yes, then forget the mean girl and do your thing. Don't love it? Ok, then lets find something you do love.
Does she currently compete? Is she really faster then the other girl? Then teach her to be assertive! If she is really catching up to her after giving her 15 seconds off the wall then my guess is that her 25/50 free times are MUCH faster then this other girl. Have her tell the girl that. "No. Today I am leading the lane. My free time is faster then yours." That's usually how our girls go in a lane. Depending on the stroke they are on, they kind of line up based on 50 times. Faster ones in front, slower ones in back. At the wall, move over if someone touches your feet. But again, at 8. It's all about who wants the spot the most and who has the bigger mouth. If your daughter wants to lead the lane, then she needs to just take it. That's it.
You are sure making it seem easy to pass someone who is kicking and hitting you in the face.
I know. And I don't mean that it is that easy. But the lanes are wide and an 8 year old is small. And an 8 year old that is kicking and punching, isn't swimming, so she isn't making any ground. Swim under, swim over, just get around her. And if she is able to catch her with a 15 second head start, she has got to be much faster then her. I am just saying, she CAN. She just needs to know that she can. If she is afraid to, well, that's a whole other conversation.
You are sure making it seem easy to pass someone who is kicking and hitting you in the face.
I know. And I don't mean that it is that easy. But the lanes are wide and an 8 year old is small. And an 8 year old that is kicking and punching, isn't swimming, so she isn't making any ground. Swim under, swim over, just get around her. And if she is able to catch her with a 15 second head start, she has got to be much faster then her. I am just saying, she CAN. She just needs to know that she can. If she is afraid to, well, that's a whole other conversation.
I get that this is normal to you in your swimming world but the insinuation that someone who is being kicked hard enough repeatedly that concussions are a concern should just battle it out is fucked up and lacks some serious perspective.
ilikedonuts, You are not unreasonable. They are 8, not 14. She has tried to deal with it, it has been ineffective. The coach needs to step up. Keep pressing and try to figure out what your DD can do to avoid this girl in the meantime. I don't care how much someone loves swimming, repeatedly kicking your "friend" in the face on purpose means that person is not a good friend.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Jan 16, 2020 18:23:10 GMT -5
Hm. I have no experience in swimming, but it's distressing to me that this doesn't seem to be taken seriously. I think doing nothing (beyond a talking-to) is condoning the behavior. I understand competition and being competitive. I understand that such an attitude can push your peers to work hard/be better. But potentially injurious behavior to someone on your own team for a lane position seems bonkers. And I don't necessarily think 8-year-olds (or kids around that age range) have the capacity to "solve" this issue without guidance.
I would probably keep up pressure on the coaches or someone with the authority to step in. While that behavior may be normal, it's rotten.
As a swimmer for ten years, this is some bullshit. The coach should be seeing this and correcting it. Lane heirarchy is real but coaches have final say. If the coach won’t call the other girl out then he’s in the wrong as much as the one kicking in the face.
If your leg was pulled, you stopped and allowed the pass. The end.
Also - lane heirarchy is set by speed. This isn’t mystical and doesn’t reset after each set. The kids have to have humility. “She is faster today. It’s fine.”
And passing is seriously not easy if the lanes are full. I’m rather wtf to the suggestion she just muscle her way in front. That’s ...not how that ever worked on my teams full of kids so that both sides on a single land was full of swimmers.
You’re a TEAM. Check your ego at the door and if the kids can’t, that’s why they have this guy called their leader who helps them be a team. He’s called their coach and this guy sucks if he can’t see the issue, address the issue and handle his swimmers.
My 10 year old daughter just joined the swim team a few months ago. So I'll comment from the perspective of the parent of a kid who hates being passed, and can be too aggressive at times. Our coach actually just recently discussed with me that my daughter was kicking at people when they touch her feet - the signal to pass, but it turns out, my daughter didn't yet realize that was the conventional signal). She also often speeds up when someone wants to pass. She a) hates to be passed because she likes to win, and b) hates the feeling of people touching her feet, go figure. Anyways, the coach basically said, your daughter has to stop kicking at people; it's dangerous, someone could break a nose or a tooth. We both talked to her about passing etiquette, and I think she'd doing much better. So....on our team, it's not tolerated, and I think it's fair to expect the coach to at least try to help! (total side note though - I'm not sure it rises to the term of "bullying" though; in our case at least, it wasn't targeted to a specific kid, or *intended* to hurt/bother them. I guess it depends on the other girl's motivations).
robot, I think your coach handled it perfectly. He asked questions, figured out she was missing important information, taught her what she needed to know, and now expects her to put it into practice. It makes ilikedonuts DDs coach sound like a crappy coach, tbh.
As a swimmer for ten years, this is some bullshit. The coach should be seeing this and correcting it. Lane heirarchy is real but coaches have final say. If the coach won’t call the other girl out then he’s in the wrong as much as the one kicking in the face.
If your leg was pulled, you stopped and allowed the pass. The end.
The best is our group coach says you can’t speed up, you have to allow the person to pass, but it seems like that doesn’t apply to this girl. 🙄🙄 but then she says my kid needs to figure it out herself. And then my poor kid is just straight up confused because she’s following the rules but it’s ignored when this girl doesn’t.
Why doesn’t your daughter go before her? Clearly she’s faster. Has your daughter said anything? Can she leave the wall 10 seconds after the other girl instead of 5 seconds? Can someone switch lanes? Let them figure it out, but give your daughter some things to try.
Maybe this is “normal” in swim but I’m in the camp that it shouldn’t be.
Maybe lanes are bigger in other pools, ours don’t seem to be. She was given the signal to pass but instead of allowing a faster swimmer to pass her she kicks her instead.
I’m not a swim mom, but I am a mom of kids who swim and or 100% primary focus is safety, and I have safety concerns with this situation with aggression in the water and the lifeguard. Is there a manager you can speak to?
I was thinking swim would be a good sport for C in a few years, but now I'm rethinking that. This is bananas for it to be "normal"
This is NOT normal. I swam for 10 years and now my 13 year old swims. Any aggressive behavior is dealt with by the coach. Sure kids do not like to get passed, but there is no excuse for hitting or kicking in the face.
You are sure making it seem easy to pass someone who is kicking and hitting you in the face.
I know. And I don't mean that it is that easy. But the lanes are wide and an 8 year old is small. And an 8 year old that is kicking and punching, isn't swimming, so she isn't making any ground. Swim under, swim over, just get around her. And if she is able to catch her with a 15 second head start, she has got to be much faster then her. I am just saying, she CAN. She just needs to know that she can. If she is afraid to, well, that's a whole other conversation.
No it is not easy to pass. Even for 8 year olds. Lanes might be wide, but you have kids on both sides of one lane (circle swim) going in different directions (up and back) so the slow swimmer should give way. If not, the coach needs to address lane order, swimming should not be this physically aggressive.
Oh man, the lane hierarchy is legit. My kid is 11 and has been dealing with this BS since she was 5. Our team has the same philosophy basically. Figure it out. And it really is good advice. And trust me, its the same on all teams, especially at that age. Those kids take their place in the lane seriously.
So I would always tell DD to pass them. It's that simple. Get in front, if you can't then you don't belong in front.
No, it is not the same on all teams. Sure kids can get mean, but the coach needs to deal with aggressive behavior. Yes, kids take their order seriously, but the coach is in charge not kids. Swimmers need to learn to give way if somebody taps their foot.
The coach should simply just help them change the order of the lane. I don’t understand why they keep saying no. Or just tell the lane everyone is leaving 10 seconds after the person in front of you and that would spread everyone out.
I know. And I don't mean that it is that easy. But the lanes are wide and an 8 year old is small. And an 8 year old that is kicking and punching, isn't swimming, so she isn't making any ground. Swim under, swim over, just get around her. And if she is able to catch her with a 15 second head start, she has got to be much faster then her. I am just saying, she CAN. She just needs to know that she can. If she is afraid to, well, that's a whole other conversation.
No it is not easy to pass. Even for 8 year olds. Lanes might be wide, but you have kids on both sides of one lane (circle swim) going in different directions (up and back) so the slow swimmer should give way. If not, the coach needs to address lane order, swimming should not be this physically aggressive.
Sometimes I sit there watching and are like ‘we didn’t sign up for a contact sport...’
robot , it’s only my kid that this girl focuses on. There are some boys that are intense but they are like that with everyone and I think that’s why it never bothered me plus they are actively trying to hurt people, they just go go go and then worry about it later. I try to be relax about a lot, but I worry too many kicks or one extra hard kick could be really really bad.
I see, yes, it does sound like she's being quite persistent and aggressive towards your daughter. Sorry, I was just projecting that I worry about my own daughter being labeled a bully, since she can be aggressive and clueless about her effect on others at times, heh. It really sounds like this new coach is not handling this well AT ALL. The coach's reaction may be further promoting the other girl's behavior too, if they are acting like this is "normal" passing behavior. I hope that you are able to find a resolution! I don't think this is typical of all swim teams at all.
It’s very normal for kids to not want to be passed. It’s very normal for kids to be angry when others are faster than them and resist stopping. Yes, I got hit in the face. Sometimes it was from passing (sometimes it was from doing butterfly in a narrow lane.)
But, you’re disrupting everyone if you don’t let someone pass you. The whole lane gets held up and if the coach is worth a damn then he’s asking what the deal is in lane three and finding a quick resolution because he has sets to get through in a fixed amount of time.
I am pretty chill and generally team “let them figure it out” but if I saw the other kid deliberately kick my kid in the head, I think I’d be down on the fucking pool deck raising hell. That is not acceptable and it’s BS the coach is brushing you off if you’re coming to him/her with a legitimate concern. Why can’t they swap the order even a little bit within the lane or switch lanes in the short term? For what it’s worth I swam for years as a kid and never saw such mean spirited aggression.
Post by lovelyshoes on Jan 16, 2020 22:12:42 GMT -5
That kind of never ends, they take lane positioning so seriously. It sucks, but she should just pass the girl. We don’t get to watch practice, but I’ve heard about this for 7 years. I hope your daughter starts to enjoy practice again, it’s really stressful.
And travel with hotels for under 8? Your team is hard core.
I’m glad to hear this isn’t generally tolerated because I’m kind of horrified at the idea of my kid getting kicked in the face repeatedly and the coach doing jack shit about it.
Holy shit. Swimming was admittedly not my sport, but I competed in show jumping, which tends to attract people who could arguably be called agressive, entitled twats. Even then, if you ever cut someone off in the warm up ring or monopolized a warm up jump your ass would be grass.