Even if it is not intended, there is always an air of judgment when there is a surcharge. Like I am an asshole for using my card lol.
In my small hometown, most business still don't have card readers. I find it fascinating. We are talking big business like nice restaurants, not like etsy shops. Every time I am home I am caught off guard like "Wait, cards aren't an option at all." I understand the surcharge thing, but I think it is more of the mob mentality of being so resistant to change.
Discount for cash and fee for using card are the same thing though lol
Logically, yes. But as consumers we're conditioned to view "discount" favorably and "fee" unfavorably. So I could see how a discount for cash might be better for the sake of consumer satisfaction.
Discount for cash and fee for using card are the same thing though lol
Logically, yes. But as consumers we're conditioned to view "discount" favorably and "fee" unfavorably. So I could see how a discount for cash might be better for the sake of consumer satisfaction.
See also how the JC Penney plan to just charge a lower flat fee without sales flopped miserably. People wanted the thrill of an artificial sale price.
Even if it is not intended, there is always an air of judgment when there is a surcharge. Like I am an asshole for using my card lol.
In my small hometown, most business still don't have card readers. I find it fascinating. We are talking big business like nice restaurants, not like etsy shops. Every time I am home I am caught off guard like "Wait, cards aren't an option at all." I understand the surcharge thing, but I think it is more of the mob mentality of being so resistant to change.
At first I thought you meant no card readers like an electronic one and they just did the old school triplicate copy thing but I guess that's not even an option anymore since most ccs don't have the raised numbers now. Do they take checks? lol I remember writing checks all the time in college like for fast food and stuff but they wouldn't take checks at places like that in Dallas where I was from so I thought it was hilarious.
I think that is just the business model. There is a 2 part fee -- one for the processor (who in some cases is a bank but often not, paypal, square etc are common options) and one to VISA/MC/DISCOVER/AMEX. These companies have to earn money someway.
Yea it’s not free to process payments. Charging the businesses makes more sense than the consumer. But with the rise in rewards cards the prices have gone up from the card brands. The technology and security needed to safely, instantly transport information around the world is pretty impressive.
And there’s inherent risk in the process - many merchants/businesses get their deposits the following day from credit card sales where you as a consumer don’t pay your bill for a month. So they’re fronting people money each day.
This exactly. And bad actors are never going to stop trying to compromise security - there's no point at where a financial institution can (or should) say "whelp, we're secure - all done!"
Post by litskispeciality on Feb 21, 2020 13:50:41 GMT -5
Personally I've caught onto the big fashion retailers (Kohls, Mauriece's Torrid) that over price just to "discount" and "save you money"...which just brings the price to what I should pay at base price. I wait to shop until there's a "sale", again bringing it down to regular not sale price. It's frustrating. Apparently I'm an outsider to this.
I live in a pretty rural area, my town of 40K or so is the biggest "city". Even with two large national banks the branch locations and ATM's are not in convenient locations, and banking in person takes a literal 30 minutes plus because of limited hours and limited staffing. It's actually less convenient for me to hit a non branch ATM than pay with a debit or credit card (I'd like to build up points), but then I'm locked out of said business, or paying a fee. Like I said my issue then becomes paying the fee to someone else to use the ATM, and sometimes that's two fees, one to the ATM and one to my bank. My long winded point is that I can't imagine I'm alone in this. The area I grew up is more secluded, so you'd have to plan ahead to get your cash say by taking it out during a grocery trip, or plan how much cash you'd need for the week when driving further to the bank, which uses time and gas. I know it's a privilege to think this way, but you shouldn't be punished for not carrying cash. It's not the businesses fault, but it's a domino effect.
Post by Velar Fricative on Feb 21, 2020 13:51:40 GMT -5
A lot of restaurants near me have started adding the surcharge and the local FB group about restaurants argues about this a lot. I don’t mind. More and more CCs have perks and that costs more and more money for businesses, and I guess I see it as businesses and the rest of their customers shouldn’t need to fund my airline miles.
BUT, it does make me cognizant of whether using a CC is really worth it in the long run. I don’t feel comfortable using my debit card a ton because if there is theft it’s my own money (and they charge for debit cards anyway), and I hate carrying cash, mostly because the one time I carried a ton of cash not too long ago is when my wallet was stolen. And if I’m paying all these surcharges anyway, I might as well not need a CC for points or whatever since I’m just paying for the points. So I guess I’ll just keep paying for the convenience of using a CC.
Velar Fricative- I had my business debit card number and pin scammed at a gas station. The transactions that didn't have the PIN associated with them were covered by Visa's fraud protection and the money was replaced immediately. The ones that used it weren't covered. Thankfully my credit union replaced the money as soon as I filed a notarized form with them. I'll use my debit card if I have to but won't use my PIN.
Post by thelurkylulu on Feb 21, 2020 15:51:14 GMT -5
You know what fires me up more than a small business charging me a fee to use my card? Freaking Kroger charging me a fee to get cash back when you’re already running my card for my groceries. That’s some BS.
We just started this (accounting office). We posted January 1st with it going into effect February 1st. We have it posted 3 different places in our office, we are telling clients when they drop off, and when we call to tell them when it is done so no one can say we didn't know about it. So far no one has complained and we are getting more cash/check payments. We were debating about just cancelling our credit card machine at the end of last year because the fees are out of control especially when we only use it 3-4 months out of the year. 3% is for debit cards and most perk credit cards charge us between 4-6
This post makes me realize for 2021 we should just raise our prices across the board and offer a cash discount.
Post by cinnamoncox0 on Feb 21, 2020 17:52:34 GMT -5
My h told me once many many years ago that it’s illegal for businesses to do that and so I do try to use cash when going somewhere for a low priced item, but honestly it’s modern times and everyone uses cards so raise the prices and offer cash discount or eat the cost of doing business. I’ve a few times accidentally not have cash and they try to say no card under $10 and I’ve told them it’s not legal and they let me. I only if I really need the item which is most stuff since I don’t just buy stuff Willy nilly. But I will push back but always try to have cash.
I bet customers would like it a lot more if prices were raised for everyone but businesses offered a 5% discount for using cash or check.
my nail salon does this, it’s 5% off when paying by cash. I never have cash on me, but I remember to when I get my nails done.
Mine started giving this discount to pay by Venmo or cash. It was the best day of my life!
I guess I’d rather pay the 4% than not be able to use a card, bc I’m in the never carrying cash camp over here. It’s less than ATM fees which for me are always $6 ($3 from the ATM and $3 from my bank).
Post by maudefindlay on Feb 22, 2020 12:32:39 GMT -5
I just had this happen with a doctor bill. 4.5 % fee to use credit card on fairly substantial bill. I was told no fee if I use cash or check. The issue being I pay medical bills with my HSA card which carries over money year to year and has plenty to cover normal yearly bills and an extra minor unexpected expense or two. Through research I found out I can go online and have my HSA mail a check, but jeez, there is more to the story about how I found this out and the hoops I had to go through, it was a crazy big inconvenience and I will never go to this dictor again partly due to the fee. Luckily she is a specialist and not likely one I need to return to again.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Feb 22, 2020 14:18:05 GMT -5
I’m FL, most of the governmental agencies charge CC fees as well. Maude’s dr post made me remember I paid quite a bit in fees when renewing my car registration and changing our DLs after moving. I had no other option than coming in and paying cash. Yeah, let’s waste the day at the dmv. That one makes me more salty than the pizza places, but whatever.
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
I’m FL, most of the governmental agencies charge CC fees as well. Maude’s dr post made me remember I paid quite a bit in fees when renewing my car registration and changing our DLs after moving. I had no other option than coming in and paying cash. Yeah, let’s waste the day at the dmv. That one makes me more salty than the pizza places, but whatever.
We’re in FL too and have experienced this. It makes sense to me that they would charge the fee rather than raise everybody’s registration or license fees.
I try to use cash for purchases at local businesses and they always appreciate it. A few places give a cash discount.
I know that just raising the prices can be pricy for a small restaurants too because they have to print new menus, update their website and often change/buy new signage which adds up so I think that is why some places just add a surcharge instead. If you already have 10,000 menus printed for your pizza shop, why throw them away?
The option to "never have cash" is rife with privilege and race issues. I'm glad there's pushback.
I do not go to places that are credit only! I live in a seriously underbanked city and it’s incredibly exclusionary.
I've only run into once in my city and the ice cream wasn't that good anyway! (I was also pissed that they charged me to get 2 flavors in a 2 scoop cone.)
I do not go to places that are credit only! I live in a seriously underbanked city and it’s incredibly exclusionary.
I've only run into once in my city and the ice cream wasn't that good anyway! (I was also pissed that they charged me to get 2 flavors in a 2 scoop cone.)
There are a few here. Mostly ice cream shops or similar. It’s ridiculous.
I've only run into once in my city and the ice cream wasn't that good anyway! (I was also pissed that they charged me to get 2 flavors in a 2 scoop cone.)
There are a few here. Mostly ice cream shops or similar. It’s ridiculous.
Which I really don't understand. I do a lot of small dollar transactions and, like I said above, it kills me when people use a card. I can't imagine forcing people to use a card.
I’m FL, most of the governmental agencies charge CC fees as well. Maude’s dr post made me remember I paid quite a bit in fees when renewing my car registration and changing our DLs after moving. I had no other option than coming in and paying cash. Yeah, let’s waste the day at the dmv. That one makes me more salty than the pizza places, but whatever.
In my experience, this is the norm. The state pays for services with taxes and fees, and paying a CC fee on transactions would mean less revenue for the state, which would have to be made up somewhere (likely with taxpayer funds). I guess they could raise the price for everything to offset it, but there are ethical concerns with that with a mandatory fee - low income people who don't have credit cards shouldn't have to subsidize those of us who are trying to earn points on our rewards cards. Usually there is no (or a very low) fee for using a check.
I've noticed this paying for tuition at state universities, too. Not sure if private schools are different. Again I assume it comes down to taxes and equity.
There are a few here. Mostly ice cream shops or similar. It’s ridiculous.
Which I really don't understand. I do a lot of small dollar transactions and, like I said above, it kills me when people use a card. I can't imagine forcing people to use a card.
I think it’s just racist/classist? When I’ve called them on it they’ve said it’s “safer” but other places on the block take cash and it’s always some hipstery area. It would make more sense to take cash when your max item is $5 than to insist on cards IMO.
Which I really don't understand. I do a lot of small dollar transactions and, like I said above, it kills me when people use a card. I can't imagine forcing people to use a card.
I think it’s just racist/classist? When I’ve called them on it they’ve said it’s “safer” but other places on the block take cash and it’s always some hipstery area. It would make more sense to take cash when your max item is $5 than to insist on cards IMO.
I just had this happen with a doctor bill. 4.5 % fee to use credit card on fairly substantial bill. I was told no fee if I use cash or check. The issue being I pay medical bills with my HSA card which carries over money year to year and has plenty to cover normal yearly bills and an extra minor unexpected expense or two. Through research I found out I can go online and have my HSA mail a check, but jeez, there is more to the story about how I found this out and the hoops I had to go through, it was a crazy big inconvenience and I will never go to this dictor again partly due to the fee. Luckily she is a specialist and not likely one I need to return to again.
Healthcare small business owner here. I always ask if the person knows how to get their HSA/FSA to send us a check instead. In addition to fixing smiles, I feel like I'm running a bank since most everyone pays their $1K - $7K fees on 0% interest payment plans or else they can't afford us (and we require these payments to be ACH if you want the payment plan). But I just changed my policy this year that if someone is going to use their HSA/FSA, they need to pay us with an upfront payment and not monthly payments since they get their HSA money upfront. Then we have colleagues who allow credit cards for a $5K treatment, do a good job, and then the consumer calls the CC company to complain and gets their money back. The doctor loses $5K immediately from her account since the CC company sides with the consumer and now she and her staff have to spend time dealing with a CC investigation to show they are owed the money.
Reading a merchant statement is like a foreign language. The CC merchant processors charge different percents based on what version of Visa/MC etc the consumer uses. They don't tell us what the different versions of the cards are, just that "reward cards cost more." I've also seen a line indicating the person used an FSA/HSA card. Even if you do negotiate a straight percent, there is a section at the end where there are like 20 lines of more fees straight from MC/Visa etc. that you can't negotiate. Then there is my (not) favorite, funsies fees from the merchant services company. For a while they were charging me $25/month because I wasn't running enough volume with them. I have managed to knock most of their fees off but I still haven't been able to get rid of "PCI Compliance" yet. As much as I love my CC rewards, I can see why small businesses don't want to accept CC payments so I do bring cash with me when I go out locally.
Post by mccallister84 on Feb 23, 2020 8:14:12 GMT -5
sent just an FYI you don’t receive HSA funds up front. FSA yes, but the HSA doesn’t fully fund 1/1 - it’s just like a normal savings account where the money isn’t there until it’s deposited (either by payroll deduction or put in directly)
sent just an FYI you don’t receive HSA funds up front. FSA yes, but the HSA doesn’t fully fund 1/1 - it’s just like a normal savings account where the money isn’t there until it’s deposited (either by payroll deduction or put in directly)
Thanks, that's good to know. It's a learning process. I just learned about the "HRA" this year. I thought the mom was mistaken when she was telling me "I have an HRA and my employer states that I can only use at in-network providers" but I waited until she left to head to google.
If HSA money isn't all there, then the patient should have time between their appointments (they are usually a month apart) to figure out how the account works and set it up for us to get checks each month. We just got an HSA in my house and I think one of the papers had a routing/checking account number. I should investigate this to be more informed.