D will be 9 months at the end of the month. He has always been a crap sleeper. We did sleep training around 5 months and he did pretty well, but has never been great at falling asleep alone. I still need to help him on occasion. He also wakes all the damn time. I know there is a feed to sleep association at play. I had dropped one really early feed, and was about to move it later.
Then he hit the 9 month sleep regression. And his brother in the room next door started having bad dreams and I didnt want crying to wake him (and it was). Then we went on vacation where he was fed to sleep because he was in a pack and play in a stranger house - no chance he was gonna go down on his own.
I'm not sure if we are still in the regression (it's about 5 weeks now) or if he is just doing worse period. He's refusing to go do bed on his own (particularly at night) and waking every 2.5 hours or so on a good night.
I let him cry and will go in and either just tell him it's time to sleep and lay him back down (oh yeah, he stands now too) or pick him up and get him settled before going back in his crib. He gets to spin up that he is basically hyperventilating, so full extinction isnt my favorite. He also has no real self soothing skills. Even when he does fall asleep on his own, he's laying down crying first. Yesterday we fought for an hour at nap, and probably 45 minutes at bed before I gave up and just cuddled him to sleep.
I don't know what to do, but I'm getting increasingly short fused about it and now I'm so tunnel visioned I'm kind of at a loss.
We did full extinction for bedtime at 6m. When I was still nursing overnight DH did all wake ups before midnight. Then I would only feed if she woke up after that.
I would recommend re-training for bedtime and having DH do the first set of any wake ups.
We did full extinction for bedtime at 6m. When I was still nursing overnight DH did all wake ups before midnight. Then I would only feed if she woke up after that.
I would recommend re-training for bedtime and having DH do the first set of any wake ups.
No lovey since he's officially too young for stuff in the crib, but I did wonder about that.
Lately we have been alternating the book/song/bed routine, but then I take over the fight. I dont have a set plan and he lacks any sort of intuition.
Would him getting up and cuddling vs feeding still help in the long run?
I hit my end point at 9 months with both kids. H did the bedtime routine with ds2 and then we let him cry if he woke up overnight. He had been waking and wanted to be rocked for hours only to wake up and cry when we put him in his crib. He cried for 20 min the first night and then sttn, it was bonkers how easy it was.
With Ds1 there was lots of crying and we did Ferber to drop feedings. It took a couple of weeks in all but he went from waking 3 times to going 10 hours or so.
I think I gave each a small stuffed animal around that time too. Pick a plan and commit and stick it out - get your h on board too.
Post by expectantsteelerfan on Feb 22, 2020 10:08:28 GMT -5
Yeah it sounds like you undid all the new habits he formed during your initial sleep training (which happens when there are extenuating circumstances that cause you to not be consistent), so you need to go back and completely re-sleep train. Hopefully he will catch on quicker if you are totally consistent though!
Even though it was harder for ME in the short run, my kids responded better to me letting them fully CIO till they were asleep, then if they woke I'd go in and feed them, put them down awake, and again let them totally CIO if they cried at that point.
If your older lo is bothered by the crying, I'd try white noise for them, moving them to a further away place to sleep, sending them to grandparents for the weekend, etc. if at all possible until you're past the first few nights.
I definitely agree we created some bad habits. Unfortunately brother sleeps worse with white noise
I just tossed a lovey in his crib for nap, we will see if that helps at all. He really likes sucking on fabric (specifically my hoodie drawstrings) so it stands a chance.
I should note that for three days now, he has fallen asleep for his morning nap like a reasonable individual. I've put him back down once, maybe twice, and he just falls asleep without fanfare.
I think the root of his problem is he's stubborn as shit. He gets it from his dad
Yeah it sounds like you undid all the new habits he formed during your initial sleep training (which happens when there are extenuating circumstances that cause you to not be consistent), so you need to go back and completely re-sleep train. Hopefully he will catch on quicker if you are totally consistent though!
Even though it was harder for ME in the short run, my kids responded better to me letting them fully CIO till they were asleep, then if they woke I'd go in and feed them, put them down awake, and again let them totally CIO if they cried at that point.
If your older lo is bothered by the crying, I'd try white noise for them, moving them to a further away place to sleep, sending them to grandparents for the weekend, etc. if at all possible until you're past the first few nights.
He was completely exhausted tonight. I did a couple of checks in exceeding length and ultimately ignored him. 1 hour total, and almost 30 minutes of straight extinction. He crawled to the lovey and is silently laying down. Fingers crossed.
My kids did better with full extinction CIO. IME it only gets harder to do as they get older (like with him now being able to stand) so I’d do it sooner rather than later. My older kids have done fine with white noise and a humidifier on high even being right next door - in terms of baby crying not waking them.
No advice but I hope the rest of your night went well. Did the lovey work? I'm wondering if introducing one for DD would help the MOTN scream fests...
He was up at 12 (big improvement!), 2 and 5. Much better than the last few nights, especially since I normally get up for the day at 5. The lovey doesn't seem to have made a difference yet though. Certainly didnt hurt!
A perhaps related question...if I do not intend to feed him to sleep, how do I keep him from falling asleep while nursing? He still nurses stupidly often, so I like to feed him close to nap as possible.
I'm beginning to wonder if this is part of my (day) problem.
A perhaps related question...if I do not intend to feed him to sleep, how do I keep him from falling asleep while nursing? He still nurses stupidly often, so I like to feed him close to nap as possible.
I'm beginning to wonder if this is part of my (day) problem.
I'd feed him in a bright, noisy area that isn't his bedroom. So like on the living room couch with the TV or radio on. Then after you feed him, go to the bedroom, change diaper, etc. and then put him down.
hamster the 8m-10m regression was so bad! I posted about it with my DS a few years ago. It was 4-6 weeks of crap day & night sleep. I remember taking DS to my BFF's house (she also was a SAHM) two separate days and just handed him off. I was exhausted and so frustrated. I hope it improves for you soon.
He fell asleep while nursing this afternoon before his nap but then didnt transfer and wouldnt go back asleep. We even took him for a car ride later. No dice. So now he has to make it from 11 am - 7 pm.
I was feeling like we were trailing out of the regression but this is the icing on the cake of a crappy weekend.
I do remember this being awful with C, but he STTN at the end, which was almost 9 months to the day. D started out so much worse though, I have no hope he will do the same at this point.
For sleep training to work, he needs to learn to fall asleep on his own. You can’t “help him on occasion”. Once he’s consistently falling asleep in his crib, on his own, the middle of the night wake ups will slow down.
Don’t worry about naps right now (they don’t form the same associations at naptime) but do whatever it takes to make sure he’s not falling asleep nursing at bedtime. We did nursing before putting PJs on and reading stories.
around 8 months I started weaning S and then at 9 months we did rigid sleep training since he no longer needed to eat in the middle of the night or at bed time. We changed the routine a bit so he got a bottle at "dinner time" and then did introduced an actual bedtime routine that had nothing to do with feeding. (bath, jammies, books, songs, lights out) We opted for full CIO because the sleep trainer we worked with said this was the fastest way to get result and I was just SO FUCKING TIRED.
It was tough, no doubt about it, but within 4 or 5 days he was doing MUCH better and within 2 weeks he was sleeping 12 hours through the night.
Prior to that, he was a terrible sleeper for his entire short life. Like, every 2 hours awake. And naps were about 30-40 minutes, etc.
around 8 months I started weaning S and then at 9 months we did rigid sleep training since he no longer needed to eat in the middle of the night or at bed time. We changed the routine a bit so he got a bottle at "dinner time" and then did introduced an actual bedtime routine that had nothing to do with feeding. (bath, jammies, books, songs, lights out) We opted for full CIO because the sleep trainer we worked with said this was the fastest way to get result and I was just SO FUCKING TIRED.
It was tough, no doubt about it, but within 4 or 5 days he was doing MUCH better and within 2 weeks he was sleeping 12 hours through the night.
Prior to that, he was a terrible sleeper for his entire short life. Like, every 2 hours awake. And naps were about 30-40 minutes, etc.
Good luck!
We worked with a sleep trainer when DD was about 8 months, too, and hiring one to help us was worth every penny. We didn't do full CIO, but we created a very clear and consistent strategy for when and how to intervene as needed. We had similar results, within 4-5 days she was falling asleep on her own without intervention for most naps and at night, and within two weeks she had the routine down and was STTN.
around 8 months I started weaning S and then at 9 months we did rigid sleep training since he no longer needed to eat in the middle of the night or at bed time. We changed the routine a bit so he got a bottle at "dinner time" and then did introduced an actual bedtime routine that had nothing to do with feeding. (bath, jammies, books, songs, lights out) We opted for full CIO because the sleep trainer we worked with said this was the fastest way to get result and I was just SO FUCKING TIRED.
It was tough, no doubt about it, but within 4 or 5 days he was doing MUCH better and within 2 weeks he was sleeping 12 hours through the night.
Prior to that, he was a terrible sleeper for his entire short life. Like, every 2 hours awake. And naps were about 30-40 minutes, etc.
Good luck!
We worked with a sleep trainer when DD was about 8 months, too, and hiring one to help us was worth every penny. We didn't do full CIO, but we created a very clear and consistent strategy for when and how to intervene as needed. We had similar results, within 4-5 days she was falling asleep on her own without intervention for most naps and at night, and within two weeks she had the routine down and was STTN.
Did you have to wean at all?
He cried for about 30 seconds last night and then fell asleep and made it four hours. Shit hit the fan from there. And for some reason I didnt sleep well on top of it.
I suppose I'll have to let C sleep in my bed or something for nap so D can CIO at nap too. And I'm going to end up with zero minutes of alone time in the interim.
We worked with a sleep trainer when DD was about 8 months, too, and hiring one to help us was worth every penny. We didn't do full CIO, but we created a very clear and consistent strategy for when and how to intervene as needed. We had similar results, within 4-5 days she was falling asleep on her own without intervention for most naps and at night, and within two weeks she had the routine down and was STTN.
Did you have to wean at all?
He cried for about 30 seconds last night and then fell asleep and made it four hours. Shit hit the fan from there. And for some reason I didnt sleep well on top of it.
I suppose I'll have to let C sleep in my bed or something for nap so D can CIO at nap too. And I'm going to end up with zero minutes of alone time in the interim.
Yes, we stopped nursing to sleep and cut out all MOTN feeds cold turkey. Up until day one of sleep training, she took all of her naps on H or I after a nursing session or bottle, nursed to sleep every night, and nursed during every MOTN wake up.
Hmm. I'm definitely not ready for total night weaning.
I think on Wednesday I will have C nap in our bed since I will have MIL here to help with a bad nap attitude. Then D can CIO. I can manage that through Sunday which should help. I'll see where things settle out in regards to MOTN and will work towards no feeds before midnight, and nothing less than two hours until say, 3 or 4 am.
Hmm. I'm definitely not ready for total night weaning.
I think on Wednesday I will have C nap in our bed since I will have MIL here to help with a bad nap attitude. Then D can CIO. I can manage that through Sunday which should help. I'll see where things settle out in regards to MOTN and will work towards no feeds before midnight, and nothing less than two hours until say, 3 or 4 am.
It's a good thing he's cute and happy.
What's holding you back from night weaning? For DD, it had reached a point where MOTN nursing sessions weren't about her being hungry or needing to eat. She only needed it because she didn't know how to fall asleep without it. Once she learned to fall asleep on her own, she stopped looking for food when she woke up and was able to just start laying herself back down without intervention.
I fully agree there is a habit vs nourishment forming. Sometimes he does legit eat well, othertimes it's clearly a habit. It varies by feed and night though. I'd prefer to work to reducing feeds first, then weaning.
Honestly, supply is a big concern. I never made enough with C, and it was rapidly declining at this point. And I'm not even needing him to STTN. Just...better.
I also plan on spacing out his daytime feeds a bit, as that may help with the "need" to eat frequency in the MOTN.
Hmm. I'm definitely not ready for total night weaning.
I think on Wednesday I will have C nap in our bed since I will have MIL here to help with a bad nap attitude. Then D can CIO. I can manage that through Sunday which should help. I'll see where things settle out in regards to MOTN and will work towards no feeds before midnight, and nothing less than two hours until say, 3 or 4 am.
It's a good thing he's cute and happy.
What's holding you back from night weaning? For DD, it had reached a point where MOTN nursing sessions weren't about her being hungry or needing to eat. She only needed it because she didn't know how to fall asleep without it. Once she learned to fall asleep on her own, she stopped looking for food when she woke up and was able to just start laying herself back down without intervention.
exactly what S was doing as well. It was part of his sleep routine. He would sometimes only take an ounce or so, it was mostly the comfort of it. We slowly weaned him for about 2 weeks, reducing the amount of formula and then just water, which he rejected immediately. Instead, we gave him a paci and he was basically night weaned. He would still wake, but just for comfort of being cuddled. Then we could get to the hard task of training.
(*in hindsight I am not sure we would have done the binkie, but whatever.)
melmaria he is still around the 2 hour mark during the day. I'd like to move to closer to 3. He's eating lots of solids now so it should be pretty manageable.
I'm pretty hesitant to pump. I EPd with C so I know what a time suck it is (no pun intended) and it would take from what little free time or one on one time I have with C as it is. Plus I have a lipase issue and I have to scald it immediately. And D wont even take a bottle. Not to say I wont do it, just that it's a last resort.
I really appreciate all the suggestions and points. I know all it, but it helps to hear it again. I'll formulate a plan and check back.
Small update: D cried for an hour on Saturday night. Since then, he has been a total champ. Going down without fuss and within 10 minutes. He's had two hiccups with his afternoon nap, as a result of adults mucking up the process. No effect on wake ups yet, though he did get himself back down after a poor transfer last night which is huge. I'm waiting to tackle this segment for another week or two to make sure he has a solid foundation on falling asleep on his own first.