@Help with Appropriate Consequence

[FastHands]

DS is 5 1/2. Has a kids kindle fire. We have discussed that anything that asks for him to type anything in for an account/pw or ask to click for "I approve", he is to bring to us first. He can't buy anything anyway, but on principle we've set this rule and he has brought it to us before when it's come up.

Tonight after dinner, we discussed casually how he didn't have any more tablet time. He convinced H to let him wear his bluetooth headphones and have H play music from his (H's) phone. He decided to go under the dining room table to listen (not unusual for him). When it was time for him to shower, I go lift the tablecloth and see that he has his tablet under there, is on some amazon screen trying to create or log into an account, typing stupid shit like "I am [name]" as the email.

Apparently he decided to try to get more time (problem 1), figured he'd try his dad's login (problem 2) since it didn't have a PW*, and started trying whatever he could to gain access (problem 3).

We're taking the tablet away for at least a week, but I'm trying to decide whether to add/take away more.. This is his first major breach of trust situation, so I'm torn between making damn sure he gets how serious it is.... or going easier since it's his first major fuckup and he's still young. But there is absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind (and he admitted as much) that he knew what he was doing was wrong. Maybe not HOW wrong, but wrong. WWYD?

*H's acct only doesn't have a pw because he hasn't used it/set it up yet, which is why DS couldn't get any further than he did.

[WOUNDTIGHT]

I am not sure a week is enough for the level of breech. Honestly. I’d also take away his access to the Bluetooth, etc- he’d be on a full technology lockdown. The lying and trying to sneak more time is par for the course of boundary testing and would be NBD to me but trying to hijack dad’s account is another level.

[VillainV]

I think taking away the tablet is the best “natural consequence.” You can no longer trust him to follow the rules. I would also make sure than when his tablet time is over, it is stored/charged in a visible public location (we use a window sill in the family room), and make sure he only uses it out in the open (no going under the table or into another room).

[fivechickens]

I would take the fire and any other electronics away for at least a week, for sure. I don’t think thats too much punishment.

[redheadk]

I would take all electronics for a week. I'd start him back up with it super locked down and only access to certain things, and for a much shorter amount of time (for example, he can access books only for 30 minutes or something).

Honestly, it's not just about the punishment. It's also about the screen detox.

[cville]

I think a week without the kindle (maybe other electronics too?) is good. I know it's his first breach and it's a big one, but practically everyone I know whose kid has a tablet has experienced some version of this. If he messes up again, you up the ante.

Ex:
My oldest tried to hack into the parental controls to lift the time limits we'd put on screen time. My youngest tried to use a stool to retrieve the device from where it was in time out. But: 1. He was still too short, and 2. I caught him.

Neither has tried anything that boneheaded again. With their tablets at least.

[cville]

Damn. Tough crowd in here.


Eta: Like, my son is 6 and thinks cars cost $2000. He believes mall Santas are fake, but there is a real Santa at the North Pole and there's an airport there for FedEx since they deliver packages. He knows that credit cards can be used in place of money but thinks everyone on earth has the same one (as in, everyone's credit cards are fungible). He knows lying is wrong and only recently has grasped that sarcasm is humor and not exactly lying even though when you say "great" in a sarcastic voice you mean NOT great.

He absolutely doesn't get HOW immoral creating a fake account/hacking a password is.

[fivechickens]

Feb 23, 2020 21:12:06 GMT -5 cville said:

Damn. Tough crowd in here.

To be fair to me, I am a dumbass and meant that I didn’t think it was too much of a punishment not that it wasn’t enough.

[FastHands]

I appreciate the range of responses! My mom always says I'm too hard on him ("He's oooonly <insert age here>!!"), so I hear her voice in my head, lol.

There was part of me that was planning on making him clean baseboards for the next 2 weeks, but he'd probably enjoy that anyway. Lol

This is his only electronic, so taking it away is basically a blackout. Really I should just let my almost-2yo watch The Wiggles 24/7 to really drive him bonkers.

[twilightmv]

Feb 23, 2020 21:12:06 GMT -5 cville said:

Damn. Tough crowd in here.


Eta: Like, my son is 6 and thinks cars cost $2000. He believes mall Santas are fake, but there is a real Santa at the North Pole and there's an airport there for FedEx since they deliver packages. He knows that credit cards can be used in place of money but thinks everyone on earth has the same one (as in, everyone's credit cards are fungible). He knows lying is wrong and only recently has graphed that sarcasm is humor and not exactly lying even though when you say "great" in a sarcastic voice you mean NOT great.

He absolutely doesn't get HOW immoral creating a fake account/hacking a password is.

I’m a softie. He’s 5.5 and I feel like it’s a right of passage in the technology age. Take it away for the week. Don’t treat it like you have to rebuild trust from the ground up (not saying you are...some of the advice). He’s five!! iPads/ kindles are awesome!

[maudefindlay]

How much screen time is he allowed per day? Does he use it during the week or weekends only? If he gets time daily, then I say a week is plenty.

[cville]

Feb 23, 2020 21:18:27 GMT -5 FastHands said:

I appreciate the range of responses! My mom always says I'm too hard on him ("He's oooonly <insert age here>!!"), so I hear her voice in my head, lol.

There was part of me that was planning on making him clean baseboards for the next 2 weeks, but he'd probably enjoy that anyway. Lol

This is his only electronic, so taking it away is basically a blackout. Really I should just let my almost-2yo watch The Wiggles 24/7 to really drive him bonkers.

I was whisper yelling at my daughter in the bathroom at the Y because she was being so obnoxious and caught a glimpse of my face in the mirror--full on Mommy Dearest. I feel you on the first instinct to be all "swab the decks WITH A Q TIP!"

[Patsy Baloney]

Feb 23, 2020 21:26:13 GMT -5 cville said:

Feb 23, 2020 21:18:27 GMT -5 FastHands said:

I appreciate the range of responses! My mom always says I'm too hard on him ("He's oooonly <insert age here>!!"), so I hear her voice in my head, lol.

There was part of me that was planning on making him clean baseboards for the next 2 weeks, but he'd probably enjoy that anyway. Lol

This is his only electronic, so taking it away is basically a blackout. Really I should just let my almost-2yo watch The Wiggles 24/7 to really drive him bonkers.

I was whisper yelling at my daughter in the bathroom at the Y because she was being so obnoxious and caught a glimpse of my face in the mirror--full on Mommy Dearest. I feel you on the first instinct to be all "swab the decks WITH A Q TIP!"

Well, at least you have great eyebrows!

[FastHands]

Feb 23, 2020 21:24:38 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

How much screen time is he allowed per day? Does he use it during the week or weekends only? If he gets time daily, then I say a week is plenty.

He gets 30min/day during the week, educational only, which he mostly uses to entertain himself from when he gets off the bus until my H or I can stop working (both WFH). I think he gets an hour (maybe 45min? I forget what I decided) for weekend days, first 30min educational only.

I'm kind of thinking of one week nothing, 2nd week only books/math apps.

[cleo29]

I did not whisper yell at my oldest today at a very crowded Lidl. It had been a long day and I was letting each of the girls get a donut, so I asked for her to hand me a paper so I could grab one for K and she told me no and then was blocking me from getting one and made some sassy remark. I was done. This attitude of hers...i'm done.

[W.T.Faulkner]

My first thought was, how the f is he 5 already!?

Does he want to come clean my baseboards?

[FastHands]

Feb 23, 2020 21:26:13 GMT -5 cville said:

Feb 23, 2020 21:18:27 GMT -5 FastHands said:

I appreciate the range of responses! My mom always says I'm too hard on him ("He's oooonly <insert age here>!!"), so I hear her voice in my head, lol.

There was part of me that was planning on making him clean baseboards for the next 2 weeks, but he'd probably enjoy that anyway. Lol

This is his only electronic, so taking it away is basically a blackout. Really I should just let my almost-2yo watch The Wiggles 24/7 to really drive him bonkers.

I was whisper yelling at my daughter in the bathroom at the Y because she was being so obnoxious and caught a glimpse of my face in the mirror--full on Mommy Dearest. I feel you on the first instinct to be all "swab the decks WITH A Q TIP!"

Haha! Yes! You know that moment in Monsters Inc when Sully sees his roar and how scared Boo is? So I call those total losing my shit times "Sully Moments", and it's the hardest thing for me as a parent. Once my patience snaps, it's just done.

[FastHands]

Feb 23, 2020 21:35:27 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

My first thought was, how the f is he 5 already!?

Does he want to come clean my baseboards?

I don't knoooooowwwwww.

And to be clear... my baseboards are not clean. But he would totally get into it and like it after accepting his fate. He is a weird dude.

[cleo29]

Feb 23, 2020 21:38:39 GMT -5 FastHands said:

Feb 23, 2020 21:26:13 GMT -5 cville said:

I was whisper yelling at my daughter in the bathroom at the Y because she was being so obnoxious and caught a glimpse of my face in the mirror--full on Mommy Dearest. I feel you on the first instinct to be all "swab the decks WITH A Q TIP!"

Haha! Yes! You know that moment in Monsters Inc when Sully sees his roar and how scared Boo is? So I call those total losing my shit times "Sully Moments", and it's the hardest thing for me as a parent. Once my patience snaps, it's just done.

I feel this so hard. I wish we could hug or something in solidarity.

[lilac05]

I think a week without it is a fair punishment, then only where he can be seen (and maybe heard...no headphones) for an undetermined time. I think it’s good practice at that age to be visible when they’re online. It’s good to have that already in place as he gets older and is using search engines for things. It’s not that you need to be right there, but so you can take a glance as you walk by.

[FastHands]

Feb 23, 2020 21:41:40 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I think a week without it is a fair punishment, then only where he can be seen (and maybe heard...no headphones) for an undetermined time. I think it’s good practice at that age to be visible when they’re online. It’s good to have that already in place as he gets older and is using search engines for things. It’s not that you need to be right there, but so you can take a glance as you walk by.

Yeah we already set up the no-upstairs rule, but he started going under the table to watch videos bec he said it was like a movie theater and he and his sister were under there bein all cute, but that's definitely going to stop.

[FastHands]

Feb 23, 2020 21:40:49 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

Feb 23, 2020 21:38:39 GMT -5 FastHands said:

Haha! Yes! You know that moment in Monsters Inc when Sully sees his roar and how scared Boo is? So I call those total losing my shit times "Sully Moments", and it's the hardest thing for me as a parent. Once my patience snaps, it's just done.

I feel this so hard. I wish we could hug or something in solidarity.

Hang in there. We're all human and everyone deserves to lose their shit from time to time. Hell I figure it teaches the kids that we all fuck up and we need to deal with it (apologize yadda yadda).

[cereal K]

G is the same age, so I get where you guys are at. He knew he was doing something “wrong” but doesn’t get why it’s so bad. I think no tech for a week is fair (and will be harder for you and your H, really). I also think it should come with a talk about trust and then redefining how/when/where tech is used until trust is rebuilt.

[FastHands]

Feb 23, 2020 22:15:54 GMT -5 cereal K said:

G is the same age, so I get where you guys are at. He knew he was doing something “wrong” but doesn’t get why it’s so bad. I think no tech for a week is fair (and will be harder for you and your H, really). I also think it should come with a talk about trust and then redefining how/when/where tech is used until trust is rebuilt.

We had a brief talk tonight but I have a feeling he was too upset at getting caught/scolded that he wasn't absorbing, so we'll definitely revisit.

And YES, this week will be harder on us for those 30min when he gets home, lol. They are such a lifesaver. He's also sleeping over at my parents' next weekend. I mmmmay cave for their benefit (this is the first overnight with DD being big enough to really add to the ruckus), but we'll see.

[cereal K]

Feb 23, 2020 22:24:22 GMT -5 FastHands said:

Feb 23, 2020 22:15:54 GMT -5 cereal K said:

G is the same age, so I get where you guys are at. He knew he was doing something “wrong” but doesn’t get why it’s so bad. I think no tech for a week is fair (and will be harder for you and your H, really). I also think it should come with a talk about trust and then redefining how/when/where tech is used until trust is rebuilt.

We had a brief talk tonight but I have a feeling he was too upset at getting caught/scolded that he wasn't absorbing, so we'll definitely revisit.

And YES, this week will be harder on us for those 30min when he gets home, lol. They are such a lifesaver. He's also sleeping over at my parents' next weekend. I mmmmay cave for their benefit (this is the first overnight with DD being big enough to really add to the ruckus), but we'll see.

Honestly, I agree with the “week” on paper because it’s a round number that feels like it has weight. BUT, my 5.5 yr old wouldn’t remember/understand after about three days, so I wouldn’t even hate on a “work week” grounding.

[fivechickens]

Feb 23, 2020 21:40:48 GMT -5 FastHands said:

Feb 23, 2020 21:35:27 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

My first thought was, how the f is he 5 already!?

Does he want to come clean my baseboards?

I don't knoooooowwwwww.

And to be clear... my baseboards are not clean. But he would totally get into it and like it after accepting his fate. He is a weird dude.

At Xmas, DD3 wanted to help grandma get my house ready for my family coming. So MIL told her to clean the walls (she was half kidding). DD3 was so into it.

She gets weirdly excited to clean out the cat litter too.

Bunch of weirdos.

[VillainV]

The only other thing I’ll add is that my kid definitely responds better to reward than to punishment. Whenever we have to take things away, we make it VERY clear what he has to do to earn it back. Just flat out taking stuff away, even with a very good reason, results in tantrums.

I’m not sure what “earning it back” looks like in this scenario, but it might help to put some thought into it and clearly outline what your son must do/demonstrate. I think it’s fine to make it difficult, but it should feel achievable to him.

[felicity]

I wouldn't do a full week because that punishes everyone ha. DS is also 5 and pulled similar shenanigans, and a day or two gets the point across to him. I've started mirroring his tablet onto the TV so I can keep an eye on what he is doing.

[dock]

Feb 24, 2020 9:24:47 GMT -5 VillainV said:

The only other thing I’ll add is that my kid definitely responds better to reward than to punishment. Whenever we have to take things away, we make it VERY clear what he has to do to earn it back. Just flat out taking stuff away, even with a very good reason, results in tantrums.

I’m not sure what “earning it back” looks like in this scenario, but it might help to put some thought into it and clearly outline what your son must do/demonstrate. I think it’s fine to make it difficult, but it should feel achievable to him.

Agree. Also, I think a week is too long. He’s five. He doesn’t have a legitimate concept of that period of time, or the correlation to what he did and why it’s so bad (he wanted more screen time and an activity, period). My kid only gets screen time as an earned reward at this point, for a variety of reasons. But it’s no longer a given because he was having trouble regulating his behavior/attitude (6yo).

[imojoebunny]

I found putting down the hammer hard the first time similar things have happened with my kids, saved me a lot of trouble later. My DH did similar around that age, but actually, successfully, bought something on Amazon with his kindle. I think a work week of no electronics, without complaining about not having them, is a good choice of punishment. If he whines about it, I would consider adding more days, or an additionally punishment. I don't use chores as punishment, since I need them done anyway, but you could use that, or something like, he needs to draw apology pictures when he gets home, during the time he would otherwise be on the kindle. If he doesn't whine, then you could say on Wednesday or Thursday, "Hey, we really like how you have behaved the last few days, and are proud of you for taking responsibility for doing the sneaky thing, and have decided to reward you by letting you have your kindle time back early."