The club owner said in an interview today that Derek Chauvin (and other white off-duty officers)were notably skittish during urban nights (with mostly AA clientele) as opposed to other nights with primarily Latino patrons. George Floyd primary worked during the urban nights.
Besides clearly pointing out how fucking racist they are that doesn’t mean they didn’t work together. I mean, black security guards don’t just work on”black nights “ at the club. And, security guards are hired by a 3rd party that is contracted but by the club’s response there is no doubt she has been gotten to because those sentences make no sense. Let me guess, the owner is a white lady?? I will happily eat my words if wrong.
Not sure about gender, but im pretty sure the owner is Latinx.
Basically, killing someone by engaging in an act so dangerous/depraved, without regard for human life. Doesn't require intent.
Punishment is 25 years.
I’m interested in what you lawyer types think about the charge. As a non-lawyer and layperson not well-versed in this cause of death it seems like the events that led to the murder of George Floyd were clearly intended to kill him. Without rehashing the details of the killing it seems crazy to me to say there wasn’t intent there.
The club owner said in an interview today that Derek Chauvin (and other white off-duty officers)were notably skittish during urban nights (with mostly AA clientele) as opposed to other nights with primarily Latino patrons. George Floyd primary worked during the urban nights.
Besides clearly pointing out how fucking racist they are that doesn’t mean they didn’t work together. I mean, black security guards don’t just work on”black nights “ at the club. And, security guards are hired by a 3rd party that is contracted but by the club’s response there is no doubt she has been gotten to because those sentences make no sense. Let me guess, the owner is a white lady?? I will happily eat my words if wrong.
One of my points was that the owner clearly indicates that both men worked on the same nights. My other point was that it was one more example of racist behavior by the officer.
I Really don’t think it will come to that but unlike a natural disaster evacuation you really wouldn’t have to go far. A few miles out of town would likely be enough.
Besides clearly pointing out how fucking racist they are that doesn’t mean they didn’t work together. I mean, black security guards don’t just work on”black nights “ at the club. And, security guards are hired by a 3rd party that is contracted but by the club’s response there is no doubt she has been gotten to because those sentences make no sense. Let me guess, the owner is a white lady?? I will happily eat my words if wrong.
Not sure about gender, but im pretty sure the owner is Latinx.
Based on seeing her on TV, yes, the owner is Latina.
Basically, killing someone by engaging in an act so dangerous/depraved, without regard for human life. Doesn't require intent.
Punishment is 25 years.
I’m interested in what you lawyer types think about the charge. As a non-lawyer and layperson not well-versed in this cause of death it seems like the events that led to the murder of George Floyd were clearly intended to kill him. Without rehashing the details of the killing it seems crazy to me to say there wasn’t intent there.
I think it's the right charge. And by that I mean, I think it's one they'd have a shot at getting a conviction with. They can always amend as evidence comes out.
I'm cynical, but I'd rather have a successful 3rd degree murder charge than an acquittal on 1st degree. I don't think the facts meet the criteria for 2nd degree.
I’m interested in what you lawyer types think about the charge. As a non-lawyer and layperson not well-versed in this cause of death it seems like the events that led to the murder of George Floyd were clearly intended to kill him. Without rehashing the details of the killing it seems crazy to me to say there wasn’t intent there.
I think it's the right charge. And by that I mean, I think it's one they'd have a shot at getting a conviction with. They can always amend as evidence comes out.
I'm cynical, but I'd rather have a successful 3rd degree murder charge than an acquittal on 1st degree. I don't think the facts meet the criteria for 2nd degree.
It makes sense if it was for strategic reasons. I just hate seeing the language over and over again “without the intent to effect the death of any person” because good lord you do not do that to someone if you’re not trying to kill them. But I totally understand what you are saying.
I’m interested in what you lawyer types think about the charge. As a non-lawyer and layperson not well-versed in this cause of death it seems like the events that led to the murder of George Floyd were clearly intended to kill him. Without rehashing the details of the killing it seems crazy to me to say there wasn’t intent there.
I think it's the right charge. And by that I mean, I think it's one they'd have a shot at getting a conviction with. They can always amend as evidence comes out.
I'm cynical, but I'd rather have a successful 3rd degree murder charge than an acquittal on 1st degree. I don't think the facts meet the criteria for 2nd degree.
I agree. Overcharging Casey Anthony is how she walked free.
I think it's the right charge. And by that I mean, I think it's one they'd have a shot at getting a conviction with. They can always amend as evidence comes out.
I'm cynical, but I'd rather have a successful 3rd degree murder charge than an acquittal on 1st degree. I don't think the facts meet the criteria for 2nd degree.
It makes sense if it was for strategic reasons. I just hate seeing the language over and over again “without the intent to effect the death of any person” because good lord you do not do that to someone if you’re not trying to kill them. But I totally understand what you are saying.
Ohers can chime in too, but intent can be pretty hard to prove and pretty hard to get a jury to understand. Just speaking generally, not in relation to murder charges.
Intent has to be specifically proven, and I suspect it would be easier for a cop's defense to poke holes in that than your average Joe's defense.
All the "without intent" language really means is that you don't have to prove the intent piece.
Basically, killing someone by engaging in an act so dangerous/depraved, without regard for human life. Doesn't require intent.
Punishment is 25 years.
I’m interested in what you lawyer types think about the charge. As a non-lawyer and layperson not well-versed in this cause of death it seems like the events that led to the murder of George Floyd were clearly intended to kill him. Without rehashing the details of the killing it seems crazy to me to say there wasn’t intent there.
It is the right choice as it is the most probable to get a conviction on. But, manslaughter encompasses different categories than described above which include voluntary, involuntary or general manslaughter. A DA needs to charge a crime that they believe they can win with a jury and even with the video it will be hard to argue 1st degree so I agree with this charge, unfortunately.
It makes sense if it was for strategic reasons. I just hate seeing the language over and over again “without the intent to effect the death of any person” because good lord you do not do that to someone if you’re not trying to kill them. But I totally understand what you are saying.
Ohers can chime in too, but intent can be pretty hard to prove and pretty hard to get a jury to understand. Just speaking generally, not in relation to murder charges.
Intent has to be specifically proven, and I suspect it would be easier for a cop's defense to poke holes in that than your average Joe's defense.
All the "without intent" language really means is that you don't have to prove the intent piece.
I concur. It is easier to prove negligence and the fact that the cop “should have known” his pressure on the throat could cause him to die. There is a lot of proof to back that up figuring it is technically “illegal” and openly discussed as a maneuver they should not do in their trainings.
Intent would be very difficult to prove in this case UNLESS they knew each other and that cop had beef with him for some reason.
My city is burning. It's awful and maddening and there is so much anger and sadness and rage right now. It's everywhere. I spent my lunch hour getting groceries at kowalski's so i wouldn't need to go outside for the next several days. Kowalski's is super expensive but it's the closest open store near my house. Business are boarded up. Gas stations all around my neighborhood have been looted. Things need to change.
One of my bosses lives 8 blocks from the 3rd precict that was set on fire and overrun last night. She's taking her family and leaving the city today.
Some friends are joining the protests and posting live footage. It's unreal out there. Wondering what will happen tonight.
Not a lawyer but “without regard for human life” seems like the perfect description for this.
I agree.
I made my self watch the video because I think it's important as a white person that I do so, and I can just as easily see someone watching it and thinking he was trying to kill him as I can see someone watching it and concluding that the officer just didn't care if he did or not.
Which, unfortunately, get one person on the jury who sees it the latter way, there goes your first degree murder conviction.
Not a lawyer but “without regard for human life” seems like the perfect description for this.
I agree.
I made my self watch the video because I think it's important as a white person that I do so, and I can just as easily see someone watching it and thinking he was trying to kill him as I can see someone watching it and concluding that the officer just didn't care if he did or not.
Which, unfortunately, get one person on the jury who sees it the latter way, there goes your first degree murder conviction.
And figuring the jury will probably be older white people who trust cops which is why conviction rate can be so low, this is a better charge to get him convicted.
Sadly, as a black person in non-profit criminal defense, this is mine and my poor clients’ reality:(
Besides clearly pointing out how fucking racist they are that doesn’t mean they didn’t work together. I mean, black security guards don’t just work on”black nights “ at the club. And, security guards are hired by a 3rd party that is contracted but by the club’s response there is no doubt she has been gotten to because those sentences make no sense. Let me guess, the owner is a white lady?? I will happily eat my words if wrong.
One of my points was that the owner clearly indicates that both men worked on the same nights. My other point was that it was one more example of racist behavior by the officer.
Girl, that wasn’t an attack on you, though I can see how it looks that way and I am sorry about that. Why doesn’t make sense is if they worked all the nights then knew each other. Security all work together, if even by fucking radios. So them not knowing each other is bullshit, but figuring she allegedly hired these cops because she knew them, she won’t say shit. She is probably shredding all their work records now to show no link. Ugh.
I made my self watch the video because I think it's important as a white person that I do so, and I can just as easily see someone watching it and thinking he was trying to kill him as I can see someone watching it and concluding that the officer just didn't care if he did or not.
Which, unfortunately, get one person on the jury who sees it the latter way, there goes your first degree murder conviction.
And figuring the jury will probably be older white people who trust cops which is why conviction rate can be so low, this is a better charge to get him convicted.
Sadly, as a black person in non-profit criminal defense, this is mine and my poor clients’ reality:(
Minneapolis 59% white so there's a decent chance his jury won't be totally lily white.
One of my points was that the owner clearly indicates that both men worked on the same nights. My other point was that it was one more example of racist behavior by the officer.
Girl, that wasn’t an attack on you, though I can see how it looks that way and I am sorry about that. Why doesn’t make sense is if they worked all the nights then knew each other. Security all work together, if even by fucking radios. So them not knowing each other is bullshit, but figuring she allegedly hired these cops because she knew them, she won’t say shit. She is probably shredding all their work records now to show no link. Ugh.
She also spoke very admirably of George Floyd, that he was a well-liked and trusted member of their team. I imagine that if the two men knew each other, someone from that night club (maybe not one of the other officers, but someone) will speak out about it. It seems very unlikely to me that they didn’t know each other. But I also wouldn’t put it past a white man to come in regular contact with the same black man on a regular basis and make no effort to get to know him or learn about him, to the point where he legitimately might not have been able to distinguish him from other black people.
My city is burning. It's awful and maddening and there is so much anger and sadness and rage right now. It's everywhere. I spent my lunch hour getting groceries at kowalski's so i wouldn't need to go outside for the next several days. Kowalski's is super expensive but it's the closest open store near my house. Business are boarded up. Gas stations all around my neighborhood have been looted. Things need to change.
One of my bosses lives 8 blocks from the 3rd precict that was set on fire and overrun last night. She's taking her family and leaving the city today.
Some friends are joining the protests and posting live footage. It's unreal out there. Wondering what will happen tonight.
The arrest made today isn't enough.
DH asked if I felt safer now the NG was here. Nope. Daytime I feel safer, nightfall is when I worry.
I haven't been posting because I am trying to keep up, but also catch up on sleep.
The focus in my neighborhood is now clean up. Organizations are coordinating efforts.
3rd degree is a good option- MN is one of a few (3?) that has this level. I wonder when the other 3 will be picked up.
As for the club, it's a Mexican restaurant and nightclub. It was large (MN standards) and multiple floors.
Now I’m conflicted- The official complaint says that they couldn’t find a pulse and then continued kneeling on him for several minutes. Doesn’t that demonstrate intent to kill?
Girl, that wasn’t an attack on you, though I can see how it looks that way and I am sorry about that. Why doesn’t make sense is if they worked all the nights then knew each other. Security all work together, if even by fucking radios. So them not knowing each other is bullshit, but figuring she allegedly hired these cops because she knew them, she won’t say shit. She is probably shredding all their work records now to show no link. Ugh.
She also spoke very admirably of George Floyd, that he was a well-liked and trusted member of their team. I imagine that if the two men knew each other, someone from that night club (maybe not one of the other officers, but someone) will speak out about it. It seems very unlikely to me that they didn’t know each other. But I also wouldn’t put it past a white man to come in regular contact with the same black man on a regular basis and make no effort to get to know him or learn about him, to the point where he legitimately might not have been able to distinguish him from other black people.
Now I’m conflicted- The official complaint says that they couldn’t find a pulse and then continued kneeling on him for several minutes. Doesn’t that demonstrate intent to kill?
Possibly, but as others have said intent can be very difficult to prove especially for the boys in blue who had to restrain the man for “safety reasons.” This is the best charge for a conviction, bottom line.
I am pretty sure I watched that whole video and no one took his pulse.
Nothing will change until the boys in blue mentality stops. This is why I love the Philly DA who was a long time public defender. He took fucking notes and fired 30 assist DAs his first day because they were dirty as hell. It won’t change until the higher ups do something. Sucks.