I’m no lawyer, but if there’s any smidgen of chance putting him in daycare for this time would be used against you later, I guess I’d err on the side of caution and keep him home.
I re-read the post you linked and think you should save the comprehensive list of behavioral interventions you’ve worked on with him to your private legal dossier of how hard you’ve parented!
My (newly-turned) 3-year-old has also been in a streak of hitting. He’s also had beaucoup iPad time in recent months due to being home and also using it as a tool for potty training. We let him watch the iPad as a tool to encourage him to sit on the potty. Now he expects to watch 30-minute episodes for every pee break he initiates, and hits and screams when we take it away (regardless of if we’ve given a two-minute warning, given choice of us pausing the show or him doing it himself, etc.). He’s going to my in-laws this week and for the first time I worry he will hit them.
I’m sorry you’re having to navigate all this and am sad your husband only defaults to harsh criticism.
Would I send my difficult child to daycare when I am not working...
I send my children to daycare on my mental health days from work. So in my situation yes I would. If it weren't for COVID would this even be a question? If it weren't for COVID I would definitely send him to get a break. Although if possible not full time. Maybe 3 days a week.
With COVID and your situation
Without living your life I honestly don't know. You H can scream bad parent all he wants, but no one will listen. That is what people do in a divorce situation, and unless he is willing to change jobs it's not like it will help anyway.
For child support purposes, if you aren't working he probably won't have to pay for daycare or camp, because it is voluntary. They don't change the amount summer vs school year though.
Now the COVID issue, don't where you are how bad it is, but again this is me. I'd probably keep him home until your week in July, then not take him out again. That is just me though
I would ask your lawyer about it. Lay out all the interventions and work you've been doing and outline what you want to do during your weeks off and the benefit it will have to the kid. You have to start reframing everything in terms of the kids and how it impacts/makes this better for them. If you can do that, it makes you look like the grown up in the situation with their best interests in mind vs. just wanting to make things easier for yourself. If his arguments are all personal attacks on you, you're going to look better if you go into it from a "what's best for our kid" viewpoint. Does your son's therapist think that going back into a routine with daycare will help with his behaviors? Get that in writing from them to help support your case if H tries to use it against you.
Off topic/related thoughts that I will gladly delete for you if you want: Also, keep in mind that kids pick up on tension and bad vibes. Could your son be acting out more because of the stress of COVID, coupled with increased arguing and tensions between you and H? When things got really bad for us, the kids definitely picked up on it and you could feel their sense of relief and the stress level go down once we separated and they weren't living in that toxic environment.
The mediator/therapist we used told us that her cases are usually split 50/50 between couples that truly are going to work together and figure it out and just need help and couples who need someone to tell them that it's ok to split up and figure out how to do that in the best way. I know your goal is to remain married and I respect that, but if you are already at the one foot out the door stage, don't hang around thinking that it's "better for the kids" to have married parents. My kids have never been happier than now, with two houses and two parents who actually enjoy their lives now. If your H isn't actually invested in the couples therapy, I worry that you're not going to get what you hope to get out of it. Sometimes the magic bullet that you get from counseling is the OK to release it and move on, not that it will change the situation and fix things. It took me a solid 4-5 months from the time I first considered leaving and voiced it out loud to someone, plus him having an affair, to finally work up the courage to leave. So I know it's not an easy, quick decision.
Also, I hate to say it, but I have seen guys do some awful stuff to get out of child support. Things like quitting their job, or getting a new one with much less pay and better hours so they can get 50/50 and not pay support.
They do this to hurt the spouse not help the kids. No idea what your H is like, but if he is that weird about money just be prepared to do it on your own finically. Hopefully it won't come to that.
Ugh I’m so sorry. I would send him to daycare for the socialization and kindergarten prep, assuming his therapist also thinks it’s a good idea. If anyone tried to use that against you, I would put on my best puzzled face and say “he needed the time to prepare for kindergarten and the interaction with other children” in the coolest, most reasonable tone of voice you can muster.
ALSO I am not separated or divorced, so take these next comments with a grain of salt: 1. I read “Too Bad to Stay, Too Good to Leave” once and one of the questions the author has you ask yourself [paraphrasing here] is “if you received permission to split up, would you feel relieved?” 2. We used to have a regular poster here (remember her? 2 daughters with her unreliable ex and one young son?) who said once that no matter what the settlement says, treat any financial contribution from the other parent as an unexpected discount on the cost. That mindset will keep you happier in the long run because you really can’t count on willing contributions to expenses like birthdays or camp. That’s always stuck with me.
I’m not sure I have any advice, but I just wanted to let you know that I’m thinking of you. My DD1 is 10 and also extremely challenging. Her behavioral issues started at around age 4. We didn’t get her ADHD diagnosis until age 10. I hear you. It’s exhausting when your spouse is present and dealing with it, and 10 times harder when they’re not there physically or emotionally.
I hope that you can come to a resolution soon, whatever it is.
Eta - I would absolutely send him to daycare. He needs a schedule and socialization. You’re being a good parent by sending him. Document your reasons and any positive behavioral changes once he’s on that schedule.
The way he speaks to you is like he is verbally abusing you. I would want to move on if that is the case and it if causing you and the kids harm. I agree with you though given his personality it is going to make it very ugly. I also agree with our poster that said don’t actually count on money from him- do your budget as if he doesn’t exist.
We have settings in our amazon where it emails both of us or our main joint credit card (just the amount not what was purchased), but neither of us is controlling about money it’s just for information/ fraud. It’s that he is using it to try to control you.
In terms of the daycare if I could keep kids home with me I would but I am back to work in person so I hired a babysitter. Does the child’s therapist think it’s better to send him?
I did what's called a "collaborative divorce." It's kind of a middle ground. Each person has their own personal lawyer, plus a neutral mediator and neutral CPA. We each had one on one meetings with our individual lawyers, we each had one on one meetings with the mediator (who was basically a family therapist that specializes in this), we had combined meetings with the mediator to hash out the parenting plan and custody piece, and we had combined meetings with the CPA to discuss child support, assets, etc. When all that was done, we'd meet as a whole group with the therapist as the meeting coordinator and walk through every piece of the divorce, how we'd split things up, parenting plan, etc... We had a few of those meetings over the course of the process. At any point you could choose to step out of the room and meet one on one with your personal lawyer to ask questions or clarify things. But it was all in a conference room or office, not in court.
It's much less expensive than going to court with lawyers. But, I did have to retain a lawyer and I felt more protected having legal representation on my side instead of just a mediator asking us to fill out the divorce paperwork together. I didn't want to go to court due to extenuating circumstances around our situation specifically. You also have to find lawyers that do this type of divorce because there's agreements you sign to say that if you have any issues and need to go to court, you basically have to start over and neither of you can use the same lawyers in court. So it's risky if it could escalate to needing to be actual court proceedings. I've basically agreed that if we ever have issues, we circle the wagons and get the whole team back together to work it out via discussions again instead of just taking each other to court.
ETA - you both have to be willing to do the work in this process if you go the collaborative route. It sounds like he would get too combative and fight you on every little decision to the point where it may not be productive conversations. Honestly, there are some choices we made that I felt a little bullied into, even though I had a lawyer on my side. It was just a bi-product of being used to ExH's verbal and emotional abuse and the cycles I was used to. You have to be willing to be honest and stand up for yourself in all these meetings if you do it this way.
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with all this. One thought is I probably wouldn’t make whether he’s commits to marriage therapy a ‘make or break’ test. You already know who he is. I would just move ahead with your other plans if I were you and not have a decision riding on a kind of test.
Regarding daycare I would totally send him. My 6 year old son has some similar behavioral issues and it’s ones of the reasons my kids start camp Monday despite me being mostly on maternity leave now. Could you do at least part time?
I also agree with the PP that I wouldn’t automatically assume he can’t do enough nights to decide child support because he could change jobs or try to do more childcare even if he doesn’t want to just to hurt you. I wouldn’t make assumptions around his behavior through this at all because you never know.
On the question of daycare I am probably would not, but my situation is so much different than yours that I don't know if you should care about what I would do. Some other thoughts about your situation: 1. I didn't realize how much of a toll my x's manipulative and controlling behavior was wearing me down until he was gone and it was a huge weight off my shoulders even with the added burdens of single parenting and running a household alone. 2. My x's story changed as we went through the divorce process from asking for the kids every other weekend to ending up with getting them a little over 1/3 of the time. It conveniently canceled out child support and was partly based on how his new job was "so flexible" and would allow him to leave for work later in the morning. How that has worked out is a long story, but there are ways he could get around having to leave for work earlier if he wanted to (new job, new girlfriend, babysitter). While he now does pay for his share of medical bills and daycare, he always pays very late and I can't really budget with the assumption that he will pay me back. 3. One of my kids has emotional/behavioral problems that started when she was about 3 or 4 and have taken years to get help (nearly 10 now, first diagnosisat 7 and still racking them up). Getting her help has been made significantly harder due to the divorce. At first people thought her problems were because of the divorce (she was 4 at the time) which delayed a real analysis, plus people seem to want to believe that younger kids will grow out of it. The worst thing though is that where I live all providers of behavioral/mental health services want both parents consent to treat from divorced parents. It is the one thing my x uses to still manipulate and control my life. If you can get solo medical decision making up front (may be impossible) I would recommend it. 4. One thing that helped here was a near total ban on screen time, especially at younger ages. It made my dd's behavior terrible either getting up throughout the night to watch tv or having meltdowns when it was time to stop or otherwise wasn't in her control. Once I broke her of the expectation that she could have screen time all thd time/whenever she wanted it helped her attitude about everything a lot.
Our daycare has been open the entire time of Covid and there hasn't been a single case. We sent DD3 for three weeks while we were working from home because she needed the structure and play time (and I needed to be able to work). DD1 is 8 and has started going to summer camp for three days a week. The 2 days where she is home with us are very challenging because she does so much better with structure and socialization. For these reasons, I would send him because it's what is best for him.
I'm sorry you're going through this right now on top of everything else.
Can you send him part of the time? I would probably send him at least some of the time just for the structure and socialization. I think a lot of kids are struggling because their entire schedules are so disturbed. I don't know that you can even acknowledge anything your DH says at this point. He doesn't seem rational. Your therapist is right, it is cheaper than divorce, but it seems like he cannot see past his own nose on any issue and really can't be counted on for anything.
I don’t do family law at all. So this isn’t any more informed than any non-lawyer opinion. But I also wonder how on earth he would use your sending him to day care against you. I bet if you said “okay, I’ll take custody of the older two and since you think I’m incompetent to parent #3, you take primary custody #3,” he would fall down backing up from his statement. I’m not saying to do that AT ALL, but strategically, it’s not like he gets a reduction in payments because of poor service that he’s buying. So, what, he’s going to ask for actual custody? I doubt it.
One thing I know about Texas law is that if you quit your job or take a lower paying job for the primary purpose of avoiding or lessening child support, you have to pay based on the higher earning job you quit. So I would ask your lawyer about this for your state. Also about having his wages garnished if you think he isn’t going to pay. You definitely can for National Guard or other federal service. Plus nonpayment of child support is a violation of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) so you have another avenue of recourse if you divorce.
Also, get another credit card he’s not on. That text message thing is creepy as hell. And it can be set up so you only see your own charges. I know this because I have my Amex set up that way. I get alerts for charges on my card but not charges on DH’s card, though both cards are the same account. Plus, get your own card in your name because I’m betting he’s primary on all your accounts, which means they are really his cards.
I agree with twinmomma - if your child's therapist agrees that going to daycare woudl HELP your son, get it in writing.
And also, if this would be his main thing to try and use to prove you're not a good parent... LOL. You clearly have done SO MUCH for your kids, his trying to use this to hurt you would probably only end up hurting him.
There is a good chance I have you mixed up with someone else, so apologies in advance if I do...
Didn't you go through marriage counseling with YH before? And it worked for a while.. until it didn't? And then he stopped going, and you backslid to where you are today?
If that's the case, will you just find yourself in the same position in a year or two?
Regarding credit card alerts.. he can't get them turned off? Are you not on the account? Either log in and turn them off yourself, or log in and turn on alerts for yourself as well. You either BOTH get them, or neither does. You should have AT LEAST as good of an idea as to what's going on with your money as he does.
Post by supertrooper1 on Jun 18, 2020 11:31:53 GMT -5
There seem to be a lot of similarities between my ex and your H. He was controlling about money (not quite as bad as your H) to the point that I wouldn't tell him that I had an emergency fund saved up. I went to counseling on my own with the intent to figure out how to stay married but be happy with myself. I wanted to stay married for DS. But a point came in our marriage that we realized we couldn't stay married any longer.
We weighed our options about doing a collaborative divorce vs mediator or going to court. In my state, if you start a collaborative divorce with an attorney and you get to a point where it's not going to work out, you have to start over with two new attorneys. We have used a mediator once and it didn't go well. It's still dragging on and we have a court date set for 6 months from now, but my attorney is hopeful that we can reach an agreement before then. Money has been our hold up, since I make slightly more and he thinks I owe him because "he put me through college".
As far as custody, we're 50/50. I believe we will stay this way once things are finalized. He has tried to use everything he can against me so that I only get every other weekend. But there is nothing he can hold over me. I think you should send your son to daycare, even if it's only part time. The socializing is good for him, not to mention for your sanity. I'm like you, I worry about every decision I make being held against me, whether it's money or with DS. But the few people I talk to remind me that I have done nothing wrong. I'm not an abusive mom, I'm not on drugs, I'm not a criminal, etc. Just because he has a different parenting idea doesn't make me wrong.
I agree with twinmomma - if your child's therapist agrees that going to daycare woudl HELP your son, get it in writing.
And also, if this would be his main thing to try and use to prove you're not a good parent... LOL. You clearly have done SO MUCH for your kids, his trying to use this to hurt you would probably only end up hurting him.
Post by erinshelley21 on Jun 18, 2020 13:27:14 GMT -5
I am so sorry that things have not improved.
I would absolutely send my kid to daycare 1 day a week even if I was off work all summer. Maybe even 2 days and not feel one ounce of guilt. My DS doesn't have behavior problems, but he is very emotional and can be very hard on himself which makes for some long days. Last summer we considered dipping into our emergency savings to pay for our kids to go to an in home daycare part time to get them some socialization and away from our nieces (bad influences, mostly due to age differences). We pay $0/year for childcare and almost paid $500/month for the summer. Now with COVID and staying home, I have seen how important it is for him to interact with OTHER people and kids his own age. I agree with what twinmomma said about kids feeling the stress of their environment. When DH and I are stressed, we all feel it. I've tried to be more mindful of my attitude around the kids and there have been less tears and shitty tones all around.
As for counseling and trying to repair your marriage, have you thought about if it is really worth it? Are you going to be able to leave the last few years in the past and move forward? Do you really think your H can change? Do you think your marriage can move forward and your H not hold a grudge against you for all the money "you" spent on counseling? I would be worried about that coming up in an argument down the road.
Post by sandandsea on Jun 18, 2020 13:39:34 GMT -5
I would send the kids to DC. It’s good for them to have the routine and socialization. I have a more difficult child, who is thankfully chilling out a bit with age, but routine and daycare helps him tremendously in all ways (behavior, focus, etc). I think the quarantine has been even harder on kids that need the school outlet (and their parents).
Post by mustardseed2007 on Jun 18, 2020 14:37:08 GMT -5
In normal times I would, and I considered sending my kids to daycare provided I could find a certain environment - the same kids coming each week, following lots of safety protocols etc.
Right now I would not do it where I live. But in your environment, a place with low numbers, I would definitely consider it.
Yes, all of this sounds abusive. The gaslighting, making everything your fault, nitpicking everything you do, belittling you, controlling every cent.... It all definitely sounds like abuse. I didn't acknowledge that in my situation until my therapist finally straight out said it to me. In one session she stopped me and said "Everything you are describing is abusive. He abused you." To hear someone say it like that was so harsh, but as soon as she did, I knew she was right. I'm proud of you for standing your ground and telling him that you are thinking of getting out. That's not easy. It's very smart of you to not mention the lawyer yet. I'd caution you to not keep threatening to leave to him though, in case it escalates his behavior. Make your plans, do your research, get your own affairs in order behind the scenes so that you're prepared when the time comes. For me, it was almost easier to "keep the peace" and deal with the abusive behaviors once I had mentally checked out and knew in my gut that I wanted out and was doing the work behind the scenes.
I agree - all of this sounds like abuse and gaslighting. I'm glad that you told him that you're considering leaving. I'm curious to see what is reaction is going forward. Initially, he was defensive, but will his attitude change with some time and some thought? DH's knee-jerk reaction to most things is "no"... and then he thinks about it and ponders it and he changes his mind a lot.
Also, again, your DS sounds a lot like my DD1. She's 10, medicated, been in therapy for 18 months, and we have 2-3 significant tantrums/meltdowns per day now. Keep doing what you're doing, pursue a diagnosis, know that it may take a while, and don't give up. It's so, so hard, and so incredibly exhausting. I hear you.
If people are fighting it can get nasty sometimes. But his comments seem out of blue. Everything is OK, and now all of a sudden he is nitpicking you.
I almost left DH in grad school for this. I was looking at apartments, and we didn’t have kids. The nitpicking was affecting my mental health, and I was circling the drain. I had to prioritize my mental health.
It was stress related and when the stress went away he became normal again. He could see my mental health suffering.
Lately he has been in counseling the last 2.5 years to work on his depression, and they work on the stress as well.